Do Angels Have An Earthly Ministry Today?
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
No one in his right mind wants to exercise some kind of dictatorial authority over the legitimate bounds of Bible interpretation. Bible believing Christians have for a long time differed as to the exact meaning of many Biblical things.
Unfortunately, in Christianity today it goes deeper than that. "Interpretation" in many cases has become a convenient cover story for an out right denial of Scriptural authority.
Example, which we see here on this site now is that of "Soul Competency". The historic Protestant, especially Baptist principle of this is that we do not need an authoritative church to tell us exactly what we must believe and what we must do.
The Roman Catholic Church claims to be the infallible interpreter of the Scriptures for all Catholic believers.
The Church of Latter day Saints, claim that the Bible is the Word of God as long as it is correctly interpreted by the Book of Mormon.
The church establishes canon law and thus presumably determines the life style of their believers. The Free church faith of which Baptists are has always believed that we do no need such an authority because we as individuals can read and evaluate God's Word.
We are fully able to being direct by the Scriptures without the intermediate step of the authoritative church.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Would you not agree though, that every church, no matter which one, as much as they might like to say they are guided only by scripture or the Holy Spirit, has at its very core a human being through which certain beliefs and ideas are filtered? I offer as Exhibit A of this idea the very fact that we have at last count over 35,000 denominations of Christianity, all slightly different. In that sense, I'm afraid I don't see much difference between the authority of the Pope or a high church figure and an evangelical church leader. I don't think it's possible to lead a church or congregation without putting one's own "spin" on things.
I agree with PLAR, AND what's more, the old adage "proof is in the pudding" REALLY applies. I don't care what any denom says, my question is, what's that information going to do with my life and relationship with God, that's what really matters. If someone tells you "do X and you'll have Y" and if I do X and nothing happens, what's that say about them? If there are 2 billion real Christians on the planet, then why is everything falling apart around the world? Why are people coming here begging for information on what to DO with their situation and when you tell them they don't listen? Why is it people are talking about suicide or blaming God - Whom most don't even know? (This are question I'm not seeking an answer - only to point out the need to see the truth). If Jesus said we can do all He did, then by golly! I want that! If He's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, then I want what He's shown was capable of having. We have the SAME Spirit He did, we have the SAME mandate He did, we have the SAME power He did, yet, I don't see it - not in myself or in others. Something is really wrong and it's time to clean house and inspect what we believe but how can you do that without a foundation? If you do not put the word of God as your foundation, you're going to follow some man's ideas and create another 40,000 denominations until no resemblance of the truth exists.
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Corinthians 13:5 (ESV2011)
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
You bet the angels have a mission on earth today, but they're waiting for us!!!!
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Corinthians 13:5 (ESV2011)
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
You bet the angels have a mission on earth today, but they're waiting for us!!!!
I do look outside the Bible, PeaceLikeaRiver! And when I see these things happening outside the Bible: angel worship, angel guides, and angelology(sp?), I have no doubt many people have been taken in by evil angels while trying to communicate or get to know "their angel". Staying inside the Bible is safer than wandering around outside His fold and losing my way, IMO.
I'd add to the questions " why do christians disagree about the very nature of salvation/resurrection ?" I agree something is very wrong in the Church today but this isn't unexpected imo. Narrow gate and all that.
Watching and waiting yeah. It's interesting that we will judge Angels how do you think this process will work ? It's a curious task that makes me wonder if we have more contact with them than I think.
I agree it is best to let Jesus alone be the Head of His church. We humans are much too prone to egos, error, and eruditeness (is there such a word?) Perhaps if we stopped filtering our individual walks through the filter of man, we could hear from Him with more humbleness and be more effective.
Oky doky. There were Angels ministering in the NT remember how Jesus was comforted after His tempations ? Ok this was before the Ascension so maybe how about the Angel who freed the Apostles when the Sadducees tossed them in prison in acts 5. Ok this may have been Jesus Himself.
How about the Angel/Spirit that directed Phillip to the Ethiopian Eunuch. ( Could be Jesus again maybe ) There's the Angel who spoke to Cornelius in Acts 10 and the Angel who freed Peter from prison in Acts 12 ( even nudging him to get up
) The Angel who killed Herod didn't seem to be minsitering but the Angel who visited Paul during his voyage to Rome in Acts 27 was a real help. You can see I think Angels are well in the mix down here atm and the Spiritual war is fierce imo. I've heard of the restrainer being the Holy Spirit before so I suppose the return of Angels during the Tribulation period fits well with that.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Do you think angel worship as you call it is being done by people who would self identify as Christians?
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Do you believe this to be realistic? The problem of course being that the word of God is not always as self-evident as it may seem. And anytime someone steps forward to "translate", what he does instead is infuse his own interpretation.
Here are a couple of prayers as listed on catholic.org :
A Mother's Prayer to the Guardian Angels of her children
I humbly salute you, O you faithful, heavenly Friends of my children! I give you heartfelt thanks for all the love and goodness you show them. At some future day I shall, with thanks more worthy than I can now give, repay your care for them, and before the whole heavenly court acknowledge their indebtedness to your guidance and protection. Continue to watch over them. Provide for all their needs of body and soul. Pray, likewise, for me, for my husband, and my whole family, that we may all one day rejoice in your blessed company.
Amen
Another Prayer to the Guardian Angels
My good Angel, Thou comest from heaven; God has sent thee to take care of me. Oh, shelter me under thy wings. Lighten my path, direct my steps. Do not leave me, stay quite near me and defend me against the spirit of evil. But above all come to my help in the last struggle of my life. Deliver my soul so that with thee it may praise, love and contemplate the goodness of God forever and ever.
Amen
What I find troubling is that someone new to the faith may get confused as to who is in charge of your life/safety. As to the analogy that the prayers are only for intercession in the same way we would pray for each other, I can't imagine asking these things of anyone except God.
A Mother's Prayer to the Guardian Angels of her children
I humbly salute you, O you faithful, heavenly Friends of my children! I give you heartfelt thanks for all the love and goodness you show them. At some future day I shall, with thanks more worthy than I can now give, repay your care for them, and before the whole heavenly court acknowledge their indebtedness to your guidance and protection. Continue to watch over them. Provide for all their needs of body and soul. Pray, likewise, for me, for my husband, and my whole family, that we may all one day rejoice in your blessed company.
Amen
Another Prayer to the Guardian Angels
My good Angel, Thou comest from heaven; God has sent thee to take care of me. Oh, shelter me under thy wings. Lighten my path, direct my steps. Do not leave me, stay quite near me and defend me against the spirit of evil. But above all come to my help in the last struggle of my life. Deliver my soul so that with thee it may praise, love and contemplate the goodness of God forever and ever.
Amen
What I find troubling is that someone new to the faith may get confused as to who is in charge of your life/safety. As to the analogy that the prayers are only for intercession in the same way we would pray for each other, I can't imagine asking these things of anyone except God.
yes there can be "not always" but surely there is also "always" clear as day instructions/doctrine....
Colossians 2 New King James Version (NKJV)
Not Philosophy but Christ
2 For I want you to know what a great conflict I have for you and those in Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and[a] of Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. 5 For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it[b] with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Not Legalism but Christ
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[d] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore,[e] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Oh you bet we do!
Hebrews 13:2 (KJV)
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
The excuse of men is that "if only God would show Himself" and I say "the angels saw it all, and 1/3 still rebelled". There is only One infallible and that is God otherwise, why would angels be judged?
Hebrews 10:31 (KJV)
[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Oky doky. There were Angels ministering in the NT remember how Jesus was comforted after His tempations ? Ok this was before the Ascension so maybe how about the Angel who freed the Apostles when the Sadducees tossed them in prison in acts 5. Ok this may have been Jesus Himself.
How about the Angel/Spirit that directed Phillip to the Ethiopian Eunuch. ( Could be Jesus again maybe ) There's the Angel who spoke to Cornelius in Acts 10 and the Angel who freed Peter from prison in Acts 12 ( even nudging him to get up
I've heard of the restrainer being the Holy Spirit before so I suppose the return of Angels during the Tribulation period fits well with that.
Acts 5:19 states that it was the "angel of the Lord". If we accept the doctrine of First Mention then that would be Christ Himself as the First mention of "the angle of the Lord" begins in Exodus with the Lord speaking out of the bush to Moses.
In Acts 8:29.......
"And the SPIRIT said unto Philip.............."!
Acts 10:3....
"He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming to him...........".
This is iffy and not to be nit picking anything but this event was a vision. An Angel actually did not come to him but was impressed upon him by God to go and spread the gospel.
Acts 12>21-23.......
On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, the angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died. "
Again we see that it was God in Christ.
Acts 27:23
"For there stood by me this night the angel of God whose I am and whom I serve."
I would not argue the thought but......Is it also possible that this was Christ????
And YES, it seems to me that the Restrainer in 2 Thess. must be the Holy Spirit. Who else can hold back evil????
I agree with you. I would also add to that the fact that as time has gone by we as Christians have steadily moved AWAY from the Word of God and more toward religion and traditions of men.
In 1964, the USA removed prayer and Bible reading from schools. Ever since then the USA has been on a steady downward fall. WHY?????
We have left the truth found in the Bible and have believed in the power of humanity.
We all live in a JUDGED world and I have a feeling that God is just about feed up with our actions!!!
I do know what you are saying and it does make sense. I know what you are saying but when a leader of any church does not follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God then his ideas are of his own and there is in fact no "filtering" at all.
Some of those so called "filters" or interpreters will eventually cut the very heart out of Biblical Christianity. Some theologians will "Interpret" the Bible as not teaching the deity of Christ, or as not teaching the bodily resurrection of Christ, or not teaching the depravity and lostness of man and his everlasting doom without Christ, or the Bible doctrine that man needs to be born again.
These things are not just varying interpretations within the doors of the Christian faith, but instead are denials of the faith under the deception of "interpretation" or "denominationalism".
When IMO the authority becomes any church denomination instead of the Bible, that begins the spiritual decline that will end in denial and apostasy.
Absolutely agreed that what we often get from man's translation is infused with his own interpretation...which is why I only recognize Jesus as the Head of the church. Do I believe it realistic to recognize Him as the Head? Again, absolutely! He has equipped each of us with what we need to follow Him.
Being imperfect humans, of course we make mistakes and come to different conclusions (sometimes based on our own selfishness). Hopefully, as we study and honestly seek the truth, we will come to more accurate conclusions. But when we rely on another human to interpret for us and we neglect to read and rely on the Scriptures on our own, then not only are we limiting our spiritual growth through our own filter but also through that human's filter, which I believe makes our walk with Him far more difficult.
Is there value in reading man's translations? Yes...if we read with the understanding that we will eat the meat and spit out the bones! Ultimately, God will finish what He has started in us and the Holy Spirit will bring us into all understanding.
Amen. Good point!
As do I. It is not a matter of thinking for me.....I have had several experiences with such thinkers.