Do you Hold to either a Free Grace or a Lordship Salvation view then?

[In Awe of Him]

For me, I believe that Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
I also believe that repentance is a change of mind from an embrace of sin and rejection of Christ into an embrace of Christ and rejection of sin.

I am of the same belief as you. EVERYTHING about my salvation is due to CHRIST... because of CHRIST... and flows from CHRIST.

There is NOTHING I could possibly OFFER to GOD ... NO good works would remotely come close to footing the debt I owe.

I find... that from THAT STANDPOINT.... it ends the debate of "my goodness" once and for all. It leaves me FREE from STRIVING... and TOILING to MEASURE up.... and leads me to the ONLY RESPONSE that makes sense to "offer" God.... TOTAL ADORATION...which leads to SUBMISSION of heart.. mind and will. This does NOT mean perfection.... as we are still bound to the flesh while on earth... but the LOVE and DEVOTION that is birthed from this POSITION is not matched by any other belief system out there.

When it comes to the Lordship Salvation.... because the focus always seems to be BEHAVIOUR and SIN... it has been my experience ( first hand ) to witness that this POSITION ( having to measure up with behaviour and good works to earn / keep your salvation status )... It simply breeds DUTY of service and often not very cheerful. It also breeds hypocrisy because much of the sins are covered up due to NOT wanting to break the "appearance of good". It's a huge PROBLEM in Christianity for those who follow these legalistic churches. I know within my own family.... this teaching has damaged the family deeply. I see Lordship Salvation as a huge manipulation... which actually leads to terrible bondage.

What I have learned here... in this thread is to STRETCH out the process from beginning to end ( if you will ).

I can see that Salvation is a process and I am very willing to accept that for what it is. It is step one of several other processes that will take place while on earth and finally into GLORIFICATION. However... during this process... our security of salvation is still GUARANTEED.

The best way I can explain the difference is by using the series... " The Chosen"

The LOVE and ADORATION that Mary Magdalene has for JESUS is equivalent to FREE GRACE.
She knew there was NOTHING she could possibly offer Christ.... other than her complete love and devotion.
verses
The hatred and rebellion that the pharisees had towards JESUS is equivalent to LORDSHIP SALVATION.
The Christian in this scenario is NEVER free... they are continuously bound by fear and having to PERFORM

When everything is said and done... that is how I see it.

This has indeed been a good conversation.... and I will read Romans as suggested by BibleLover.

God BLESS you all.

 

[cocoa]

our security of salvation is still GUARANTEED.

Do you have scripture to support this?

The hatred and rebellion that the pharisees had towards JESUS is equivalent to LORDSHIP SALVATION.

The pharisees where living according to their own self-righteousness and their judgments were according to the flesh.
Paul, in his letters, makes the distinction between trying to obtain holiness by upholding the law vs. living surrendered to Christ, according to the Spirit. Paul often says to walk in the Spirit.

Matthew 16 Christ warns against the doctrine of the Sadducee and Pharisee. In this Chapter, Christ tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him. This is not an easy feat. Luke says we are to pickup our cross daily.

Galatians 5 :16- 26 walking in the Spirit. Those who are in Christ have crucified the flesh and its passions << this is what we have to do.

Philippians 3 The whole chapter. I encourage everyone to read.

 

[Major]

I am of the same belief as you. EVERYTHING about my salvation is due to CHRIST... because of CHRIST... and flows from CHRIST.

There is NOTHING I could possibly OFFER to GOD ... NO good works would remotely come close to footing the debt I owe.

I find... that from THAT STANDPOINT.... it ends the debate of "my goodness" once and for all. It leaves me FREE from STRIVING... and TOILING to MEASURE up.... and leads me to the ONLY RESPONSE that makes sense to "offer" God.... TOTAL ADORATION...which leads to SUBMISSION of heart.. mind and will. This does NOT mean perfection.... as we are still bound to the flesh while on earth... but the LOVE and DEVOTION that is birthed from this POSITION is not matched by any other belief system out there.

When it comes to the Lordship Salvation.... because the focus always seems to be BEHAVIOUR and SIN... it has been my experience ( first hand ) to witness that this POSITION ( having to measure up with behaviour and good works to earn / keep your salvation status )... It simply breeds DUTY of service and often not very cheerful. It also breeds hypocrisy because much of the sins are covered up due to NOT wanting to break the "appearance of good". It's a huge PROBLEM in Christianity for those who follow these legalistic churches. I know within my own family.... this teaching has damaged the family deeply. I see Lordship Salvation as a huge manipulation... which actually leads to terrible bondage.

What I have learned here... in this thread is to STRETCH out the process from beginning to end ( if you will ).

I can see that Salvation is a process and I am very willing to accept that for what it is. It is step one of several other processes that will take place while on earth and finally into GLORIFICATION. However... during this process... our security of salvation is still GUARANTEED.

The best way I can explain the difference is by using the series... " The Chosen"

The LOVE and ADORATION that Mary Magdalene has for JESUS is equivalent to FREE GRACE.
She knew there was NOTHING she could possibly offer Christ.... other than her complete love and devotion.
verses
The hatred and rebellion that the pharisees had towards JESUS is equivalent to LORDSHIP SALVATION.
The Christian in this scenario is NEVER free... they are continuously bound by fear and having to PERFORM

When everything is said and done... that is how I see it.

This has indeed been a good conversation.... and I will read Romans as suggested by BibleLover.

God BLESS you all.

Sister........there is a verse by verse, systematic teaching on Romans that I posted a few years ago. I would encourage you to look it up, open your Bible and follow along with it.

christianforumsite.com/threads/the-book-of-romans-a-systematic-teaching.62246/

 

[Major]

Philippians 3: 9-14
Working in our own strength to attempt to attain salvation by merrit is different from earnestly striving for the Lord.

And I think people just think that any effort is works-based when it’s not. We have to be willing participants, and this takes effort. I love the Lord with all of my being but I still have to war against the flesh. I have to fight temptations, I have to actively decide to walk the narrow path.
Striving towards the mark is my understanding of Lordship salvation.

Yes, In that race, Paul is resolutely reaching toward the goal of “knowing Christ Jesus” so fully and experientially (Philippians 3:8–11) that one day he will cross the finish line of perfect spiritual maturity.

Paul uses the expression I press on. In the original language, the verb translated as “press on” in verses 12 and 13 means “to carry out or participate in an activity, to pursue or follow after, to strive energetically for some purpose.”

 

[In Awe of Him]

Do you have scripture to support this?

Hi cocoa ... You asked me to supply scripture to support my stance on security of salvation. The people here in the forums have been most GRACIOUS with me to simply comment in the debate section without supplying scripture to back up my beliefs. I am not good at approaching things in a methodical way.

I will supply this one as I am familiar with it...

I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. Philippians 1:6

I live my life with the conviction that I have NOTHING of worth to OFFER a HOLY and MAJESTIC GOD. That is taken care of right off the bat.. I am a CHRISTIAN because and ONLY because GOD has convinced me that HE loves me on a personal basis. I would NEVER EVER become a CHRISTIAN if I thought for one moment that my salvation DEPENDS on me.... and I do NOT say this LIGHTLY.

It took 20 years of being a very broken Christian to bring me to this point in my faith... and I think that is appalling.
BAD DOCTRINE... and the THREAT that I could possibly lose my salvation kept me in doubt and totally unable to TRUST GOD.

My belief in the security of my salvation is based on the above scripture... and that is good enough for me.

When a soul is in total ADORATION and AWE of GOD... they live their life on the premise of an INTIMATE relationship. I do not seek to be GOOD.... I seek to PLEASE GOD and that just happens to include being GOOD.
I am in constant communication with JESUS..... NOT because I'm special... but because HE has convinced me that HE will finish within me what HE has begun. This allows me to simply spend my ENTIRE day in HIS PRESENCE.

It's that easy for me... it's that TOTAL for me. I don't worry about being a certain way. My relationship with GOD grows DAILY... and from one event to another. I have 24 hours a day to give God my BEST... and my BEST today is way different that it was last year or even last month.

That is simply how I live my life and my FAITH.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hi cocoa... You asked me to supply scripture to support my stance on security of salvation. The people here in the forums have been most GRACIOUS with me to simply comment in the debate section without supplying scripture to back up my beliefs. I am not good at approaching things in a methodical way. I will supply this one as I am familiar with it...
I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. Philippians 1:6
I live my life with the conviction that I have NOTHING of worth to OFFER a HOLY and MAJESTIC GOD. That is taken care of right off the bat.. I am a CHRISTIAN because and ONLY because GOD has convinced me that HE loves me on a personal basis. I would NEVER EVER become a CHRISTIAN if I thought for one moment that my salvation DEPENDS on me.... and I do NOT say this LIGHTLY.

Good morning, In Awe of Him;

I'm one of your biggest fans and have read almost 99% of your testimonies in your posts/threads. I have all the faith in God that He is already doing a good work in you.

Don't take this wrong, His good work does not include limitations on His people. I'm not referring to limitations within capabilities of one's own talents, skills and abilities, but His good work in your personal growth as a Christian in discipleship, sharing the Gospel as well as your story. For that there are no limitations.

Remember Moses pointed out his weaknesses to God early in his first encounter with the Almighty. We read on and learn how God used Moses. Jonah tried to hide from God. Yet God fulfilled His servant with THE MESSAGE at Nineveh.

And here at CFS I have read so many posts by members who didn't think before they write, yet time later have witnessed their growth in writing with wisdom and substance, the kind that ministers to a new and seasoned believer.

I'm encouraging you and others, don't take this in the wrong way. Just continue being In Awe of Him while God reveals Himself in you.

God bless you, sister, and keep writing.

Bob

 

[In Awe of Him]

OH BOB.... my DEAREST Pastor BOB whom I love to bits and pieces.

I have learned that we cannot do any better than what we are doing. As parents we do the best we can... as children... we do the best we can...
As Christians.... I believe the majority of Christians are doing the BEST they can... and somehow... God manages to work it all out.

I have grown in leaps and bounds since becoming a member here at the forums. You are aware of a RECENT and SERIOUS issue I had... not all that long ago... and YOU prayed me through it... even though I could not accept your counsel.... and LOOK..... God worked it all out.

That is my point in this discussion.....that is my WHOLE point..... This is NOT about being right about my STANCE. I have clearly stated that I would NOT be a CHRISTIAN if I thought I could lose my salvation..... that is ME.... I own that... I am not saying it for DRAMATIC effect... and I totally understand that GOD is not in the business of CATERING to our fickle and flighty little thoughts... but.... seriously.... .I have ALL my eggs in the basket of NOT depending on my worth or goodness... but rather depending on the BASKET of HIS GREAT WORTH and GOODNESS. That is how I love HIM... that is how I serve HIM.... It's all about HIM. I CAN'T be GOOD... I just CAN'T.... but HE is GOOD.... ALL the time and that is what keeps my heart AGLOW with the HOPE that HE will finish within me... that which HE has BEGUN. FULL stop.

I see my family... and my heart is sad bobinfaith. They have toiled and toiled and agonized... they have blamed... shamed... hidden from their sin... and it has caused such DESTRUCTION to them. It's almost like a curse.... and so.... my choice of believing as I do... is because I am not interested in ANYTHING my family strives to achieve. THEY believe they are GOOD. They actually believe they are earning their salvation.

My own natural father... abandoned me in real life... as a child... and he later hung himself. HE walked away without even saying good-bye to me. I was 14 years old. WHY would I want to serve a GOD that MIGHT abandon me???

Anyways.... I think I have perhaps CROSSED a line here... but for the record.... in future... I have it well documented why I believe as I do.

I absolutely APPRECIATE that I have been given the platform in this particular thread to share some brutally honest thoughts.

I have also learned some things. I believe this was an excellent discussion.... even if it might have briefly crossed a forbidden topic. EVERYONE showed some serious respect.

I'm done now. HA. I love you all.

 

[cocoa]

Hi cocoa ... You asked me to supply scripture to support my stance on security of salvation. The people here in the forums have been most GRACIOUS with me to simply comment in the debate section without supplying scripture to back up my beliefs. I am not good at approaching things in a methodical way.

I will supply this one as I am familiar with it...

I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. Philippians 1:6

I live my life with the conviction that I have NOTHING of worth to OFFER a HOLY and MAJESTIC GOD. That is taken care of right off the bat.. I am a CHRISTIAN because and ONLY because GOD has convinced me that HE loves me on a personal basis. I would NEVER EVER become a CHRISTIAN if I thought for one moment that my salvation DEPENDS on me.... and I do NOT say this LIGHTLY.

It took 20 years of being a very broken Christian to bring me to this point in my faith... and I think that is appalling.
BAD DOCTRINE... and the THREAT that I could possibly lose my salvation kept me in doubt and totally unable to TRUST GOD.

My belief in the security of my salvation is based on the above scripture... and that is good enough for me.

When a soul is in total ADORATION and AWE of GOD... they live their life on the premise of an INTIMATE relationship. I do not seek to be GOOD.... I seek to PLEASE GOD and that just happens to include being GOOD.
I am in constant communication with JESUS..... NOT because I'm special... but because HE has convinced me that HE will finish within me what HE has begun. This allows me to simply spend my ENTIRE day in HIS PRESENCE.

It's that easy for me... it's that TOTAL for me. I don't worry about being a certain way. My relationship with GOD grows DAILY... and from one event to another. I have 24 hours a day to give God my BEST... and my BEST today is way different that it was last year or even last month.

That is simply how I live my life and my FAITH.

I' m sorry. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful but Im someone who personally approaches from scripture and I just find it helpful to have a scripture reference when people make claims Im not wholly familiar with or believe differently about.
I could have typed it in away that implied a more amicable tone.

Edit: thank you for the scripture reference.

 

[In Awe of Him]

I' m sorry. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful but Im someone who personally approaches from scripture and I just find it helpful to have a scripture reference when people make claims Im not wholly familiar with or believe differently about.
I could have typed it in away that implied a more amicable tone.

Are you serious?? HA.... I don't think you could possibly offend anyone. You have been nothing but polite and respectful.

It's me who is in ERROR... BECAUSE I do not think with scripture. My point was that people here seem to know that when I make an appearance... I am sharing from my heart. SO..... good on you for asking me to supply scripture.

 

[cocoa]

Are you serious?? HA.... I don't think you could possibly offend anyone. You have been nothing but polite and respectful.

It's me who is in ERROR... BECAUSE I do not think with scripture. My point was that people here seem to know that when I make an appearance... I am sharing from my heart. SO..... good on you for asking me to supply scripture.

Praise the Lord! The last thing I want to do is offend. I really like the discussions here and youre right, everyone is so gracious.

 

[YeshuaFan]

50 years ago I had to write a thesis on Free Grace verses Lordship grace. Now it has been awhile since I have considered this but if my memory is correct, the "free grace movement" contends that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

But there is a rub in that There is no repentance and/or turning from sin necessary at the moment of salvation. Saving faith in Christ does not necessarily result in a life of good works, obedience, and following Christ.

"Lordship salvation" contends that while salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, salvation is also a call to turn from a life of embracing sin and rejecting Christ to a life of rejecting sin and embracing Christ.

Saving faith will always and inevitably result in a transformed life of good works, obedience, and following Christ. Spiritual growth is greatly dependent on discipleship, but even an un-discipled believer will exhibit some spiritual fruit. It is not possible for believers to remain in a carnal state of known sin for their entire lives.

From the extremes of both sides of some lordship salvation advocates say that Free Grace is easy believism and/or cheap grace.
Some free grace advocates claim Lordship salvation is a works-based salvation.

For me, I believe that Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
I also believe that repentance is a change of mind from an embrace of sin and rejection of Christ into an embrace of Christ and rejection of sin.

Very good explanation, as I see this discussion as so called free Grace highlighting what must we do to get saved, and Lordship as how that should now affect out lives , so not meant to be either/or of many see it as being in both theologies

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hi cocoa ... You asked me to supply scripture to support my stance on security of salvation. The people here in the forums have been most GRACIOUS with me to simply comment in the debate section without supplying scripture to back up my beliefs. I am not good at approaching things in a methodical way.

I will supply this one as I am familiar with it...

I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. Philippians 1:6

I live my life with the conviction that I have NOTHING of worth to OFFER a HOLY and MAJESTIC GOD. That is taken care of right off the bat.. I am a CHRISTIAN because and ONLY because GOD has convinced me that HE loves me on a personal basis. I would NEVER EVER become a CHRISTIAN if I thought for one moment that my salvation DEPENDS on me.... and I do NOT say this LIGHTLY.

It took 20 years of being a very broken Christian to bring me to this point in my faith... and I think that is appalling.
BAD DOCTRINE... and the THREAT that I could possibly lose my salvation kept me in doubt and totally unable to TRUST GOD.

My belief in the security of my salvation is based on the above scripture... and that is good enough for me.

When a soul is in total ADORATION and AWE of GOD... they live their life on the premise of an INTIMATE relationship. I do not seek to be GOOD.... I seek to PLEASE GOD and that just happens to include being GOOD.
I am in constant communication with JESUS..... NOT because I'm special... but because HE has convinced me that HE will finish within me what HE has begun. This allows me to simply spend my ENTIRE day in HIS PRESENCE.

It's that easy for me... it's that TOTAL for me. I don't worry about being a certain way. My relationship with GOD grows DAILY... and from one event to another. I have 24 hours a day to give God my BEST... and my BEST today is way different that it was last year or even last month.

That is simply how I live my life and my FAITH.

Think this entire discussion mirrors those who want to have either Paul or James for "right theology", buy truth is both are right. just paul primary fous is on Justification, how lost sinners get right with God, while James is how ought should we now live as being saved?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Free Grace or Lordship Salvation are good learning points for Christians who apply Gospel Fluency, but how do most nice neighborhood Churches who have never heard of Free Grace or Lordship Salvation learn it's teachings?

These aren't "gotcha questions" but a serious question.

Bob

Would help if those advocating for either side woul present what the other side actually is teaching, as many times they are not giving what other side actually holds to

 

[In Awe of Him]

Think this entire discussion mirrors those who want to have either Paul or James for "right theology", buy truth is both are right. just paul primary fous is on Justification, how lost sinners get right with God, while James is how ought should we now live as being saved?

Your thought here is very interesting... and to be honest... I am not familiar with the differences in teaching styles of Paul and James.

From experience.... I have witnessed those who follow the Lordship Salvation... and those who follow the FREE GRACE.... SADLY... when someone is not living life as they should.... they get thrown into the pile of ABUSING GRACE which is NONSENSE in my opinion. There is no excuse for disobedience... and SIN is NEVER EVER GOOD.

Our sanctification is fluid... God is always working in His children's lives. Its sort of like baking a cake.... YOU cannot open the oven door UNTIL the cake is ready or it will cave in. HA. >>>>>>>>> VERY BAD EXAMPLE... however... the gist of it is that IT's NOT over until it's OVER.

Both these doctrines bear fruit.... but only ONE provides FREEDOM ... PEACE and JOY.... as well as cultivates true INTIMACY with GOD.
Not all fruit is GOOD FRUIT.

 

[Major]

Do you have scripture to support this?

The pharisees where living according to their own self-righteousness and their judgments were according to the flesh.
Paul, in his letters, makes the distinction between trying to obtain holiness by upholding the law vs. living surrendered to Christ, according to the Spirit. Paul often says to walk in the Spirit.

Matthew 16 Christ warns against the doctrine of the Sadducee and Pharisee. In this Chapter, Christ tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him. This is not an easy feat. Luke says we are to pickup our cross daily.

Galatians 5 :16- 26 walking in the Spirit. Those who are in Christ have crucified the flesh and its passions << this is what we have to do.

Philippians 3 The whole chapter. I encourage everyone to read.

Romans 8:30........
"And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."

Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

Romans 8:33-34......
"Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior."

For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

YES.... YES..... YES..... YES!!!!!!!!!! Just sayin....

 

[Major]

Hi cocoa ... You asked me to supply scripture to support my stance on security of salvation. The people here in the forums have been most GRACIOUS with me to simply comment in the debate section without supplying scripture to back up my beliefs. I am not good at approaching things in a methodical way.

I will supply this one as I am familiar with it...

I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return]. Philippians 1:6

I live my life with the conviction that I have NOTHING of worth to OFFER a HOLY and MAJESTIC GOD. That is taken care of right off the bat.. I am a CHRISTIAN because and ONLY because GOD has convinced me that HE loves me on a personal basis. I would NEVER EVER become a CHRISTIAN if I thought for one moment that my salvation DEPENDS on me.... and I do NOT say this LIGHTLY.

It took 20 years of being a very broken Christian to bring me to this point in my faith... and I think that is appalling.
BAD DOCTRINE... and the THREAT that I could possibly lose my salvation kept me in doubt and totally unable to TRUST GOD.

My belief in the security of my salvation is based on the above scripture... and that is good enough for me.

When a soul is in total ADORATION and AWE of GOD... they live their life on the premise of an INTIMATE relationship. I do not seek to be GOOD.... I seek to PLEASE GOD and that just happens to include being GOOD.
I am in constant communication with JESUS..... NOT because I'm special... but because HE has convinced me that HE will finish within me what HE has begun. This allows me to simply spend my ENTIRE day in HIS PRESENCE.

It's that easy for me... it's that TOTAL for me. I don't worry about being a certain way. My relationship with GOD grows DAILY... and from one event to another. I have 24 hours a day to give God my BEST... and my BEST today is way different that it was last year or even last month.

That is simply how I live my life and my FAITH.

Great to hear your testimony!

I have heard it said many times that as long as someone sincerely loves God, doctrinal errors aren’t a big deal.

The clarification that this needs is this: Which God are you loving — Buddhist god, Hindu god, Muslim god, Christian God, the God of the forest? In other words, in order for “love of God” to have any meaning at all, you need to know something about God.
Which God are you loving?
Is he worthy of love?
Does he have enough factors, attributes, things about him, that make him worthy of love?
Are you loving an unworthy God?
What God are you loving? “He’s like this” or “He’s like that”; “He’s not like this” or “He’s not like that.”

It’s simple. Everybody’s got some kind of doctrine, either good or bad, and we can’t live without it.

Here’s what people need to think seriously about: Life is not doctrine-less. We are always believing somebody’s view of reality. It’s not like there’s anything neutral. Let’s be God’s people and listen to God’s word and believe his doctrine. That’s the point of Ephesians 4:13–14......
"until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

You know.....bad doctrinal teaching always leads to a destroyed life.

 

[BibleLover]

Romans 8:30........
"And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."

Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

Romans 8:33-34......
"Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior."

For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.

I completely agree. There are those who argue that apostates are evidence of the falsehood of this belief. However, the proof is in the pudding.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." (1John.2.19.ESV)

Once justification has taken place, according to Romans 8:29, we are guaranteed to be conformed to the image of Christ. Justification is the key. Those who apostasize are people who were never justified. When we come to the Lord, that surrender must be sincere. If it's not, for whatever reason, no justification takes place.

That's the essence of the point John is making in the above verse.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Romans 8:30........
"And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."

Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

Romans 8:33-34......
"Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior."

For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.

Bible states plainly that Lord Jesus stated ALL whom the Father has given to Him SHALL be raised up by him on the last day, and also that the Holy Spirit sealed us until the full inheritance as children of God

 

[YeshuaFan]

Your thought here is very interesting... and to be honest... I am not familiar with the differences in teaching styles of Paul and James.

From experience.... I have witnessed those who follow the Lordship Salvation... and those who follow the FREE GRACE.... SADLY... when someone is not living life as they should.... they get thrown into the pile of ABUSING GRACE which is NONSENSE in my opinion. There is no excuse for disobedience... and SIN is NEVER EVER GOOD.

Our sanctification is fluid... God is always working in His children's lives. Its sort of like baking a cake.... YOU cannot open the oven door UNTIL the cake is ready or it will cave in. HA. >>>>>>>>> VERY BAD EXAMPLE... however... the gist of it is that IT's NOT over until it's OVER.

Both these doctrines bear fruit.... but only ONE provides FREEDOM ... PEACE and JOY.... as well as cultivates true INTIMACY with GOD.
Not all fruit is GOOD FRUIT.

many see Paul and James in coflict with each other, but paul looks to before saved and now saved, while James is looking at now saved forward