Do you Hold to either a Free Grace or a Lordship Salvation view then?

Major said:
Great to hear your testimony!

I have heard it said many times that as long as someone sincerely loves God, doctrinal errors aren’t a big deal.

The clarification that this needs is this: Which God are you loving — Buddhist god, Hindu god, Muslim god, Christian God, the God of the forest? In other words, in order for “love of God” to have any meaning at all, you need to know something about God.
Which God are you loving?
Is he worthy of love?
Does he have enough factors, attributes, things about him, that make him worthy of love?
Are you loving an unworthy God?
What God are you loving? “He’s like this” or “He’s like that”; “He’s not like this” or “He’s not like that.”

It’s simple. Everybody’s got some kind of doctrine, either good or bad, and we can’t live without it.

Here’s what people need to think seriously about: Life is not doctrine-less. We are always believing somebody’s view of reality. It’s not like there’s anything neutral. Let’s be God’s people and listen to God’s word and believe his doctrine. That’s the point of Ephesians 4:13–14......
"until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

You know.....bad doctrinal teaching always leads to a destroyed life.
Click to expand...
Bad theology leads one straight on the Highway to Hell, see the Mormons, JW, Muslims etc
 
Major said:
Great to hear your testimony!

I have heard it said many times that as long as someone sincerely loves God, doctrinal errors aren’t a big deal.

The clarification that this needs is this: Which God are you loving — Buddhist god, Hindu god, Muslim god, Christian God, the God of the forest? In other words, in order for “love of God” to have any meaning at all, you need to know something about God.
Which God are you loving?
Is he worthy of love?
Does he have enough factors, attributes, things about him, that make him worthy of love?
Are you loving an unworthy God?
What God are you loving? “He’s like this” or “He’s like that”; “He’s not like this” or “He’s not like that.”

It’s simple. Everybody’s got some kind of doctrine, either good or bad, and we can’t live without it.

Here’s what people need to think seriously about: Life is not doctrine-less. We are always believing somebody’s view of reality. It’s not like there’s anything neutral. Let’s be God’s people and listen to God’s word and believe his doctrine. That’s the point of Ephesians 4:13–14......
"until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

You know.....bad doctrinal teaching always leads to a destroyed life.
Click to expand...
Just hate it when people try to keep the unite of the Body so hard that excuse major doctrinal deviations and sometimes outright heresy
 
BibleLover said:
I completely agree. There are those who argue that apostates are evidence of the falsehood of this belief. However, the proof is in the pudding.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." (1John.2.19.ESV)

Once justification has taken place, according to Romans 8:29, we are guaranteed to be conformed to the image of Christ. Justification is the key. Those who apostasize are people who were never justified. When we come to the Lord, that surrender must be sincere. If it's not, for whatever reason, no justification takes place.

That's the essence of the point John is making in the above verse.
Click to expand...
As peter stated to us, make our election and calling sure
 
Major said:
Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
Click to expand...
Salvation coming thru faith in Christ who fulfills the law. Whe receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in us leading us to the knowledge of God the Father.
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?
I guess my scripture reference is Romans 5 and 6 ...

Major said:
The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.
Click to expand...
Taken away is different from someone freely changing their mind. A Covenant relationship require is commitment from both parties. And like marriage, no outside party can remove one from the marriage but either spouse can decide to leave... and when they leave, does that mean they never really loved the the other person? Or never had any faith or hope in the relationship?
I appreciate your thoughts on thos perspective.
 
cocoa said:
Salvation coming thru faith in Christ who fulfills the law. Whe receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in us leading us to the knowledge of God the Father.
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?
I guess my scripture reference is Romans 5 and 6 ...


Taken away is different from someone freely changing their mind. A Covenant relationship require is commitment from both parties. And like marriage, no outside party can remove one from the marriage but either spouse can decide to leave... and when they leave, does that mean they never really loved the the other person? Or never had any faith or hope in the relationship?
I appreciate your thoughts on thos perspective.
Click to expand...
If a person deserts Jesus, then that person never loved Jesus and never really belonged to Jesus.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19 ESV)
 
cocoa said:
Salvation coming thru faith in Christ who fulfills the law. Whe receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in us leading us to the knowledge of God the Father.
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?
Click to expand...
I think this is where the difference is from what you are believing and what I am believing.

We both agree that JESUS perfectly fulfilled the law. That is NOT up for question.... but we disagree on what that means for the believer. ( I think ).

I believe that SALVATION is a supernatural event that takes place at the moment of our conversion... I also believe that it is SEALED/PRESERVED/CANNOT be taken AWAY by the HOLY SPIRIT This is a ONE TIME EVENT. I even believe that there are witnesses in heaven that observe everyone's salvation. ( However... that does not matter ).

onto JUSTIFICATION.... you seem to be saying that you believe it is a process.... in that you WROTE
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?

What is a biblical definition of justification?

Justification is that gracious and judicial act of God whereby a soul is granted complete absolution from all guilt and a full release from the penalty of sin (Romans 3:23-25). ( This was copied and pasted BECAUSE it's absolutely so well written and beautiful. ) I could have written this in my own words BUT... could not have expressed it like this.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
~(Romans 3:23-25)

I think what you are calling justification... I am calling SANCTIFICATION.... the working out of our SALVATION. The process of becoming more like CHRIST.

This is my FIRST time actually submitting scripture for reference. HA.... Please be gentle on me. :D
 
YeshuaFan said:
Just hate it when people try to keep the unite of the Body so hard that excuse major doctrinal deviations and sometimes outright heresy
Click to expand...
Unity must never be allowed to
cocoa said:
Salvation coming thru faith in Christ who fulfills the law. Whe receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in us leading us to the knowledge of God the Father.
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?
I guess my scripture reference is Romans 5 and 6 ...


Taken away is different from someone freely changing their mind. A Covenant relationship require is commitment from both parties. And like marriage, no outside party can remove one from the marriage but either spouse can decide to leave... and when they leave, does that mean they never really loved the the other person? Or never had any faith or hope in the relationship?
I appreciate your thoughts on thos perspective.
Click to expand...
Once we are born again, we can never lose, forget, give away or have anyone take away our salvation.

Two people can choose to divorce because they are human and are sinners. In the salvation experience, the one who gives salvation is God and He never kames mistakes.
 
Major said:
Unity must never be allowed to

Once we are born again, we can never lose, forget, give away or have anyone take away our salvation.

Two people can choose to divorce because they are human and are sinners. In the salvation experience, the one who gives salvation is God and He never kames mistakes.
Click to expand...
He who started the good work will complete it in you
 
Major said:
Unity must never be allowed to

Once we are born again, we can never lose, forget, give away or have anyone take away our salvation.

Two people can choose to divorce because they are human and are sinners. In the salvation experience, the one who gives salvation is God and He never kames mistakes.
Click to expand...
We are united around the Person of the Lord Jesus and the true Gospel, but when either of those get compromised, as in false Jesus and a False Gospel, must break" unity"
 
cocoa said:
Salvation coming thru faith in Christ who fulfills the law. Whe receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in us leading us to the knowledge of God the Father.
Justification being or becoming righteous by faith in God and being brought into a covenant relationship with Him?
I guess my scripture reference is Romans 5 and 6 ...


Taken away is different from someone freely changing their mind. A Covenant relationship require is commitment from both parties. And like marriage, no outside party can remove one from the marriage but either spouse can decide to leave... and when they leave, does that mean they never really loved the the other person? Or never had any faith or hope in the relationship?
I appreciate your thoughts on thos perspective.
Click to expand...
God made with Abraham an Unconditional Covenant, and same way makes one to us also in the New Covenant
 
BibleLover said:
If a person deserts Jesus, then that person never loved Jesus and never really belonged to Jesus.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19 ESV)
Click to expand...
Absolutly agreed!
 
YeshuaFan said:
God made with Abraham an Unconditional Covenant, and same way makes one to us also in the New Covenant
Click to expand...
Yes. I am surprised but overjoyed that we are being allowed to discuss this. There are several Bible truths that can not be forgotten--

In John 10:28-29 Jesus emphasizes that those who believe in Him have "eternal life" and will never perish.

In Ephesians 2:8-9 we are see that salvation is a gift from God and is not based on what we do, ensuing that no one can boast about it.

In Romans 11:28 we understand that God's gifts, including salvation are irrevocable.

The Bible doctrine of Justification by faith alone supports the fact that once we are truly saved, we stay securely saved.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=d263...m8vdG9waWNzL25ldmVyX2xvc2Vfc2FsdmF0aW9u&ntb=1
I am very aware that in Christian circles there has been and still rages the argument on whether we can lose our salvation. IMHO, that teaching is made and not Biblically supported.
The Bible says that we are “sealed” with the Holy Spirit at the moment of our salvation with the Lord and that nothing can break this seal, no matter how many bad and evil sins a person may commit after getting saved.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=715f...DaHJpc3RpYW4tbG9zZS1zYWx2YXRpb24uaHRtbA&ntb=1
 
Major said:
Yes. I am surprised but overjoyed that we are being allowed to discuss this. There are several Bible truths that can not be forgotten--

In John 10:28-29 Jesus emphasizes that those who believe in Him have "eternal life" and will never perish.

In Ephesians 2:8-9 we are see that salvation is a gift from God and is not based on what we do, ensuing that no one can boast about it.

In Romans 11:28 we understand that God's gifts, including salvation are irrevocable.

The Bible doctrine of Justification by faith alone supports the fact that once we are truly saved, we stay securely saved.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=d263...m8vdG9waWNzL25ldmVyX2xvc2Vfc2FsdmF0aW9u&ntb=1
I am very aware that in Christian circles there has been and still rages the argument on whether we can lose our salvation. IMHO, that teaching is made and not Biblically supported.
The Bible says that we are “sealed” with the Holy Spirit at the moment of our salvation with the Lord and that nothing can break this seal, no matter how many bad and evil sins a person may commit after getting saved.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=715f...DaHJpc3RpYW4tbG9zZS1zYWx2YXRpb24uaHRtbA&ntb=1
Click to expand...
have to trust in what Jesus stated, as he stated to us ALL that the Father gave unto Him he SHALL raise them all up
 
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