Do You Think God Forgets About Those In Hell?

I follow a lot of the Calvinist beliefs; I find there is a lot of scripture to support it.

As for the original post. I think Romans 9 would answer it well:

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
 
"Where is the Messiah, post: 360194, member: 13424"]I follow a lot of the Calvinist beliefs; I find there is a lot of scripture to support it.

As for the original post. I think Romans 9 would answer it well:

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—

Yah, i really don't want to lean toward Calvinism..but lots of scripture back it up.
 

MMurphy

Inactive
If you contest a doctrine that I have posited I will provide scriptural evidence to support it, enough with the generalized accusations, be direct and specific.

Also, I believe in Prima Scriptura (Scripture First) not Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone). Otherwise there would be no need to attend Church. For instance slavery is not explicitly forbidden by the Bible, but if you are schooled in the Bible you see that the flavor of slavery that was prevalent in recent history is not compatible with scripture, yet this doctrine comes from an inference which we look to scripture for support. Forcible, involuntary servitude is akin to murder which is prohibited.
 

MMurphy

Inactive
I follow a lot of the Calvinist beliefs; I find there is a lot of scripture to support it.

As for the original post. I think Romans 9 would answer it well:

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
There is a scripture that says God desires that all will come to know him. The Calvinist doctrine that states that God has arbitrarily elected some to know him and others to not, is unbiblical, and has led to many evils in the Church, for instance clergy refusing to accept certain people because they determined that person was not within the "elect." It also discourages evangelism, which essentially is to say that if Calvin is wrong, and God does in fact desire other's to come to know Him, Calvin is responsible for them dying without the knowledge of the Gospel.

I don't mind people theorizing about predestination and free will, but I don't like it when people claim to have the knowledge of God. If God has in fact elected certain people to have salvation, we certainly don't know who they are. And IMO arbitrarily limiting the grace of God to certain people does not glorify God, and I reject any doctrine which does not properly honor God as a hero.
 
There is a scripture that says God desires that all will come to know him. The Calvinist doctrine that states that God has arbitrarily elected some to know him and others to not, is unbiblical, and has led to many evils in the Church, for instance clergy refusing to accept certain people because they determined that person was not within the "elect." It also discourages evangelism, which essentially is to say that if Calvin is wrong, and God does in fact desire other's to come to know Him, Calvin is responsible for them dying without the knowledge of the Gospel.

I don't mind people theorizing about predestination and free will, but I don't like it when people claim to have the knowledge of God. If God has in fact elected certain people to have salvation, we certainly don't know who they are. And IMO arbitrarily limiting the grace of God to certain people does not glorify God, and I reject any doctrine which does not properly honor God as a hero.

I agree with you that we may not know who they are, and I also think you make a good point with clergy refusing to accept people because they assume someone is saved or not saved.

However, I think one of the main points of Calvinism is that God knows who will and won't be saved. I believe this doctrine does honor God, because it focuses on that God is all knowing.

To say that God desires something, but can't do it, in my opinion takes away from the power of God. If he desires for someone to be saved, but they do not get saved, then can one really say He is all powerful? To properly honor God, all glory has to go to God. I'm not saved by my own works, I'm saved by his mercy alone. If I am saved by Gods mercy alone, then I can't boast in any works or choices that I made. As the scripture says, "it does not depend on mans desire or effort, but on His mercy."
 
Pancakes, I am sorry you are going through this. I wish we could all reach through these screens and comfort you. You are not merely precious in our eyes, but you are far more precious in our Messiah's eyes. You are set, firmly, in His heart. He planned for you from before the foundation of the earth; He knew you way back then and gave His Son for you, because you are loved.

Right now, these words may be empty to you. But I am praying that they become real to you. Soon. You are loved, even though you may not know that right now.
 

MMurphy

Inactive
I agree with you that we may not know who they are, and I also think you make a good point with clergy refusing to accept people because they assume someone is saved or not saved.

However, I think one of the main points of Calvinism is that God knows who will and won't be saved. I believe this doctrine does honor God, because it focuses on that God is all knowing.

To say that God desires something, but can't do it, in my opinion takes away from the power of God. If he desires for someone to be saved, but they do not get saved, then can one really say He is all powerful? To properly honor God, all glory has to go to God. I'm not saved by my own works, I'm saved by his mercy alone. If I am saved by Gods mercy alone, then I can't boast in any works or choices that I made. As the scripture says, "it does not depend on mans desire or effort, but on His mercy."

I don't believe anyone who applies to free will doctrine has ever asserted that God does not know who will be saved, we just think that knowledge transcends any human capacity to ascertain and is therefore purely theoretical, but for all intents and purposes we can choose to follow God and accept the Gospel or not. Trying to put Calvinist thought into practice, though, is just an absolute nightmare.
 
Gosh... I didn't want this to turn into a ruckus....
But one user was right..im just inquiring is all..and im a tad annoyed with God...with a few things in my life personally.
I thought as much. Here's the advice Job got, and I repeat for you :D

Job 22:21-23 (KJV)
Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth, and lay up his words in thine heart. If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

The "Law" mentioned here is really "teaching" not just the Ten Commandments. Verses like this:

Psalms 23:1-3 (KJV)
A Psalm of David. The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
 
Im not trying to be rude... its just something I've always wondered.
In Romans,Paul says that God's love reaches the depths of Hell..or something like that.

So does God,idk, blot he ever created them out of his mind?

I just couldn't imagine, seeing as he took so much time to craft and form them in womb, records every tear shed, number of hairs on their head.... when they stand or sit,
He knows each human being that lived and is living so well..He might as well been pregnant with us all .

But then again, its such a burden to live with the anguish of knowing and hearing the suffering of one you love...

But still, our lives on this earth is too short..and some have their lives unjustly cut down. ( murder,sickness etc) to hold a crude for eternity... with such weak vessels..seems petty.

It's like... what is there to be mad at? Were gonna die....
and then to be tormented for eternity for 20,30,40,60,100 yrs of living seems
Spiteful...

Why not just let them live on this earth, its Hell enough as is.
Idk... God to me just seems P.O.'ed tbh
Well said Pancakes! I agree 100% with your thinking! Lol at the underlined!

If we look at what we have today, what does it tell us about God? God has left the devil and fallen angels alone. He has not harassed them. He has given them a place to live. He protects us from them. Even the evil are protected from them. Then God's dealings with us. Is He not described in scripture as 'exceedingly merciful'? Did Him dying on the cross not show us how much He loves us?

My point is, if you and I would want a good life for the evil, how much more God. You hit the nail on the head when you said 'He may as well been pregnant with us all'!

This is why I firmly believe....Eternal banishment is not debatable but eternal suffering is. God is good yesterday. God is good today. God is good tomorrow. I believe people who love darkness will not see hell as suffering. We will because we love the light.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

It is hard to believe, but there are actually people that love the darkness!! :eek:. Heaven would be more painful for them.

Eternal hell = eternal home. There is no scripture where God ''tortured'' His enemy.
 
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Think of this Pancakes.

An evil person is always unsettled inside. They don't have inner peace. Yet they still delight in doing evil despite the state of their heart!!!!

Hell is a home for them where they will be separated from the lambs Matt 25:32. .

What would YOU do for the evil? They don't want to live with God.

I would make an eternal home for them. I would remove all the good people / angels from them. I would feed them and look after from afar. I would not put anything innocent with them that they can harm (no animals). God seems to be doing the exact same as what I would do.
 
We cannot understand the fullness of God so we cannot judge Him, but only He can judge us. With our feeble minds we attempt to understand and only find fault - but He is 100% perfect in every way. The book of Job is a perfect example of this. Job judged God and God defended Himself and in the end Job repented of judging God unfairly.

The old wine diatribe, used by clerics from Babylonia until the modern day.

You can't know the mind of a deity. It is beyond your comprehension.

Sorry, no longer buying that cliche line. I have a King, who came as a human being, so that we might look upon the face of Our God and hear the Words of God directly from his mouth. And have that God in our Hearts.

If we cannot tell what God is up to after having him become one of us and reside in our hearts, then we have some really serious issues.
 
The old wine diatribe, used by clerics from Babylonia until the modern day.

You can't know the mind of a deity. It is beyond your comprehension.

Sorry, no longer buying that cliche line. I have a King, who came as a human being, so that we might look upon the face of Our God and hear the Words of God directly from his mouth. And have that God in our Hearts.

If we cannot tell what God is up to after having him become one of us and reside in our hearts, then we have some really serious issues.

Have you read Deut. 29:29???
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."

It seems that it is difficult for those who do not know the Lord to understand how He could punish people so severely but Moses tells us that "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God". That tells us that there is a hidden cause that motivates God and He has not told us what that is.
 
The old wine diatribe, used by clerics from Babylonia until the modern day.

You can't know the mind of a deity. It is beyond your comprehension.

Sorry, no longer buying that cliche line. I have a King, who came as a human being, so that we might look upon the face of Our God and hear the Words of God directly from his mouth. And have that God in our Hearts.

If we cannot tell what God is up to after having him become one of us and reside in our hearts, then we have some really serious issues.
I'm sorry people have overused a truth, but maybe there's some truth in there by the way you feel. My grandma used to say "if you're offended by the truth, it must mean you don't believe it."

1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (KJV)
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Actions speak volumes and the evidence is that the vast majority of so-called Christians are just like Job. They hear OF God, but never witnessed Him.

Job 42:5 (KJV)
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

They hear and believe in the historical Figure of Jesus, but far too many have not seen Him, today, in their lives, and therefore really do not know Him. Job repented of his faulty belief as I have, so I share with others the truth that they cannot know God until they meet Him.
 
1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (KJV)
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Context?

Job 42:5 (KJV)
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

They hear and believe in the historical Figure of Jesus, but far too many have not seen Him, today, in their lives, and therefore really do not know Him. Job repented of his faulty belief as I have, so I share with others the truth that they cannot know God until they meet Him.

You do realise that when you received The Holy Spirit you met God?

Or are you a binaritarian?
 
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