Does God Like Surprises

I also showed you your double-mindedness when you talk about things you don't understand, the Word tells us we are to correct those in error, ...so I ask again, "are you teachable?"
Double mindedness? You believe God is good and evil. I simply believe He is good.

I am asking you questions and all you are doing is saying that I am not in the spirit. Fine, believe as you wish...but the questions remain.

Math is sound. 1 + 1 = 2.

Now here is the equation we have....which many are just ignoring / cannot deal with / face reality

God knows everything / God knows from birth who will go to hell + God created a hell of eternal torment = God is evil.

There are ONLY two changes that can be made to that equation that will = God is good. They are 1. Hell is not such a bad place or 2. God does not know which babies will go to hell.

Our minds are the limiting factor here. We need to look at where scripture points and not just assume God is all knowing = He knows who goes to hell = He is evil. I have power to read my wife's diary but do I? I have power to kill an ant, but do I?
 
Well well.. Something we can never agree with! Not just today, but for centuries :D

And there so many verses in Bible which keeps on repeating God knows everything.. So we have 2 things,

God knows everything
God changed his mind

If God knew everything, why did He change his mind? How are we going to reconcile these 2 truths? I look at this way.. God ordains everything that comes to pass.. And not only that, God provides means for things to come to pass.. Every time a prophet declared judgement on Israel and Judah, there was always a call to repent.. The means was always there.. The same is the case even today.. Simple example.. Lord knows our needs even before he ask them or confess them.. At the same time, Lord tells us ask and we shall receive.. God ordains everything and also provides means for that to happen.. God is always in control.. And we will never know how He is going to pull everything together..

So I don't think God really changes his mind.. He ordains things so that always His will is accomplished.

So you believe in no free will but free choice. I can accept this as a rule after we have made our decision to bend the knee or not, but not before. However, you have not dealt with the Achilles heel of the argument. Did Jesus know that Judas would betray him at birth or as an adult that showed signs of rebellion?

It is that argument that convinces me that we have true free will and not merely free choice. Which is what it seems most here believe.

We see / read God is omnipotent (all powerful) as 10/10. We see / read God is omniscient (all knowing) as 10/10. Great! That shows our brains are working as scripture does say that (y).

BUT....what happened on the cross? Did God's omnipotence not go from 10/10 to 1/10? I want to propose that God is capable of 1/10 and 11/10, not just 10/10. There is a greater law at work here. That is, God is who He is. A good God will humble Himself (1/10). Does God humbling Himself (1/10) mean He is not 10/10 or 11/10? Of course not. But being 10/10 does not mean He can't be 1/10.

God does what pleases Him + God is who He is + God is good = God gives us true free will. God does not know who is going to hell from birth. That is why heaven belongs to the children.

Our brains simply ''break'' when we try grasp God can be 1/10 or 11/10 ;). It is just like us trying to grasp eternity or how God was created. God can know everything, but does that mean He chooses to. I can read my wife's diary, it sits on her table all day long, but do I? I want to propose that God ''knows all there is to know''.

Inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
Total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
 
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When God spoke to Moses about destroying Israel because of their disobedience and he was going to start over with Moses by starting a new people through him, we can see after understanding proverbs 16:1 what was really going on. It makes no difference what man plans in his mind to do, it is what comes out of his mouth that is from the Lord. Those who belong to God, and are his anointed speak the very Words of God. This is extremely important to understand for the Church today. Knowing this we can see what was really going on.

How many Jews died in the desert? I do believe that when God said to Moses that He was going to destroy them, He meant it. He was not just teasing. Not all took part in idolatry with golden calf. I think its safe to assume 60% would have died that day if Moses did / said nothing.
 
Double mindedness? You believe God is good and evil. I simply believe He is good.

I am asking you questions and all you are doing is saying that I am not in the spirit. Fine, believe as you wish...but the questions remain.

Math is sound. 1 + 1 = 2.


Now here is the equation we have....which many are just ignoring / cannot deal with / face reality

God knows everything / God knows from birth who will go to hell + God created a hell of eternal torment = God is evil.

There are ONLY two changes that can be made to that equation that will = God is good. They are 1. Hell is not such a bad place or 2. God does not know which babies will go to hell.

Our minds are the limiting factor here. We need to look at where scripture points and not just assume God is all knowing = He knows who goes to hell = He is evil. I have power to read my wife's diary but do I? I have power to kill an ant, but do I?


So I guess from your response you are not teachable.
 
How many Jews died in the desert? I do believe that when God said to Moses that He was going to destroy them, He meant it. He was not just teasing. Not all took part in idolatry with golden calf. I think its safe to assume 60% would have died that day if Moses did / said nothing.
So now the question would be. Did God not know what his decision would be in not destroying Israel until Moses interceded on their behalf, or did God know even before the creation of the world what he would do, since he know all things? If the Lord knew before this event happened what his decision would be, then he never did change his mind but only did what he knew what he would do. :)
 
So now the question would be. Did God not know what his decision would be in not destroying Israel until Moses interceded on their behalf, or did God know even before the creation of the world what he would do, since he know all things? If the Lord knew before this event happened what his decision would be, then he never did change his mind but only did what he knew what he would do.
Agreed. It comes back to the same question I've asked Ravindran on Judas. Was he predestined from birth to betray Jesus?

I say a resounding, NO (n). You say, yes?
 
Agreed. It comes back to the same question I've asked Ravindran on Judas. Was he predestined from birth to betray Jesus?

I say a resounding, NO (n). You say, yes?
I say "no" Judas made Judas who he was not God, even though the Lord knew what he would become before the foundations of the world. Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become.
 
even though the Lord knew what he would become before the foundations of the world.
:) and that is exactly where we disagree. I don't understand how you reconcile this line with your 'no'. You say ''Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become'' Its the same thing to God the Creator, surely.

Would you do that? Make a baby even when you know its future is an eternity of torment...and when you have the power to make one that will not be tormented for eternity?
 
Double mindedness? You believe God is good and evil. I simply believe He is good.

I am asking you questions and all you are doing is saying that I am not in the spirit. Fine, believe as you wish...but the questions remain.

Math is sound. 1 + 1 = 2.

Now here is the equation we have....which many are just ignoring / cannot deal with / face reality

God knows everything / God knows from birth who will go to hell + God created a hell of eternal torment = God is evil.

There are ONLY two changes that can be made to that equation that will = God is good. They are 1. Hell is not such a bad place or 2. God does not know which babies will go to hell.

Our minds are the limiting factor here. We need to look at where scripture points and not just assume God is all knowing = He knows who goes to hell = He is evil. I have power to read my wife's diary but do I? I have power to kill an ant, but do I?

How could someone knowing a person is going to hell equate to them to being evil? Is foreknowledge evil?
 
How could someone knowing a person is going to hell equate to them to being evil? Is foreknowledge evil?
If you are the Creator and know it from their brith, a resounding, YES!

It is on par with sending babies to hell. We know God does not do that.
 
:) and that is exactly where we disagree. I don't understand how you reconcile this line with your 'no'. You say ''Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become'' Its the same thing to God the Creator, surely.

Would you do that? Make a baby even when you know its future is an eternity of torment...and when you have the power to make one that will not be tormented for eternity?
That is why God himself made provision so man would not wind up there. The only difference is in manns choice not to go there.
God knowing all men would go to Hell = God made provision so man would not go to Hell = good God!!
 
That is why God himself made provision so man would not wind up there. The only difference is in manns choice not to going there.
God knowing all men would go to Hell = God made provision so man would not go to Hell = good God!!
Unless you believe in universal salvation I don't see how you get ''good God''.

Your equation is in actual fact:

God knowing all men would go to Hell + God made provision so man would not go to Hell + God knows and made those who would not choose His provision = bad God.

Scripture says ''whomsoever will believe'' ''whomsoever will carry their cross''. Scripture = God John 1:1. God said whomsoever. God did not say He knows who will believe. God did not say He knows who will carry their cross. You are assuming He says that when He says He is all powerful. Hence we back at the example....of reading my wife's diary. I can, but I don't. It would be evil if I did.
 
Unless you believe in universal salvation I don't see how you get ''good God''.

Your equation is in actual fact:

God knowing all men would go to Hell + God made provision so man would not go to Hell + God knows and made those who would not choose His provision = bad God.

Scripture says ''whomsoever will believe'' ''whomsoever will carry their cross''. Scripture = God John 1:1. God said whomsoever. God did not say He knows who will believe. God did not say He knows who will carry their cross. You are assuming He says that when He says He is all powerful. Hence we back at the example....of reading my wife's diary. I can, but I don't. It would be evil if I did.
Your math is not correct. God does not choose who will go to Hell, man does. He wants all men to be saved. Does your wife diary include tomorrow's thoughts? or all of her thoughts to the end time? Did your wife tell you not to read her diary? God diary is his Word, so he expects us to read it.
 
Your math is not correct. God does not choose who will go to Hell, man does. He wants all men to be saved. Does your wife diary include tomorrow's thoughts? or all of her thoughts to the end time? Did your wife tell not to read her diary? God diary is his Word, so he expects us to read it.
Man chooses to go to Hell? Really? Can you think of one person who would send themselves to hell?
 
Man chooses to go to Hell? Really? Can you think of one person who would send themselves to hell?
There are only two choices. Either your chose the Kingdom of God, and if you don't you are automatically go to the other.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Who makes this decision?
 
Your math is not correct. God does not choose who will go to Hell, man does. He wants all men to be saved. Does your wife diary include tomorrow's thoughts? or all of her thoughts to the end time? Did your wife tell you not to read her diary? God diary is his Word, so he expects us to read it.

If God wants all men to be saved, why aren't they all saved? God does what He wills / what pleases Him. He did not say ''I will that CCW and justpassingthru be saved''. He said clearly ''He wills (= created with intent that pleased Him) that all be saved.
 
If God wants all men to be saved, why aren't they all saved? God does what He wills / what pleases Him. He did not say ''I will that CCW and justpassingthru be saved''. He said clearly ''He wills (= created with intent that pleased Him) that all be saved.
unfortunately there is something in the way that stops one from being saved, and that is man's will. Do you think a loving God would "force" his will on those to whom he gave free will?
 
I say "no" Judas made Judas who he was not God, even though the Lord knew what he would become before the foundations of the world. Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become.

And yet The King still gave him a chance to repent his course.

Still held out hope he might change. But sadly he did not, because Judas placed faith into something other than The King.

And so it will ring true forever, whatever you place faith into, THAT you will have.
 
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