Does Scripture Threaten Loss Of Salvation To Pre-tribulationists?

Either way, some true believers will be so unprepared and devastated that
they will not endure in the faith until the end of their lives.
Several Scriptures warn that if this happens, eternal life is lost.

Those not willing to endure the great tribulation will lose their salvation.
Those not willing to refuse the mark will lose their salvation.
You shall see it happen, my friend!

You speak in comment #18 of the unbelief of some Baptist however look ay=t what you have just said my brother.

There are NO Scriptures which warn or say that eternal life can be lost!!!

The believers of today will not be here for the Tribulation Period! The Rapture which Paul teaches us about clearly says the Chruch will not be here to be exposed to the mark of the beast.

The ones left will be Jews as God is not through with His people. People of today who have heard about Jesus, rejected Jesus will not be in the Rapture, and they can not be saved after the Rapture.
 
Either way, some true believers will be so unprepared and devastated that
they will not endure in the faith until the end of their lives.
Several Scriptures warn that if this happens, eternal life is lost.

Those not willing to endure the great tribulation will lose their salvation.
Those not willing to refuse the mark will lose their salvation.
You shall see it happen, my friend!

Nope! It is NOT either way my friend. It is what the Bible says!!!

ZERO, NONE, NADA true believers will be unprepared! WE are prepared right now and in fact every single believer I know personally is LOOKING FOR JESUS AT EVERY MOMENT TODAY!!!

We are ready, even so come now Lord Jesus!!!!

Osterloh..........Are YOU ready??/ Do you, have you placed your faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ so that you as a believers can leave this old earth with the rest of us??????
 
2 Thessalonians 2 (NKJV):
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition
,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped,
so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


The antichrist comes and causes the great tribulation,
which then causes the falling away (apostacy).

IMO, this great falling away from the church is the result of
many pre-tribulation believers NOT being prepared in any way
for the horrendous persecution that will be coming upon them!

Surely, many will NOT endure with their faith until the end of their lives.
Surely, many will NOT refuse to take the mark of the beast to feed their families, etc.

Scriptures are available upon request regarding …
the warnings that either one of these two causes loss of salvation!

Does not all of this happen before Jesus comes to rapture His bride (in verse 1 and elsewhere)?
There is another way to translate that verse which fits MUCH better with 1 & 2 Thessalonians:

The single word used in Greek for "falling away" is apostasia, meaning "a falling away, departure, apostasy ", and where we get the word apostasy. Now read this verse using the secondary meaning:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a departure first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In I Thessalonians 4:17 the words "caught up together" is the single word harpazo which literally means "to seize" or "to snatch". It's used 17 times in 13 verses in the KJV. The best explanation of this word is, should you see someone crossing the road and is about to be hit by a bus when you pull their shirt collar and snatch them out of danger at the last moment. Jesus uses it when He uses the word translated pluck:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Since Paul's focus is on this catching up to heaven of the faithful, this one word change is repeated in these verses:

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (KJV)
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

In verse 2:3 - departure THEN that man of sin is revealed
In verse 2:7 - the restrainer is removed and THEN that Wicked be revealed

The departure IS the rapture...
 
Oh yes, him! (I was in his cave on Patmos 3 years ago. Awesome.)
He experienced wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire,
and vapour of smoke: the sun was turned into darkness, and the moon into blood ...
... but I can't seem to remember exactly when he saw all of this!

Rev 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, (NIV)

Rev 6:12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, (ESV)
 
I'm sorry that we got sidetracked from Peter in Acts to John in Revelation.
IMO, Peter mistook Joel 2 for what happened on the Day of Pentecost
because he had no idea at this point what had just transpired.
 
I'm sorry that we got sidetracked from Peter in Acts to John in Revelation.
IMO, Peter mistook Joel 2 for what happened on the Day of Pentecost
because he had no idea at this point what had just transpired.
Are you trying to imply Peter now being filled the Holy Spirit did not know what he was saying?
In other words God was speaking through him!!
 
I'm sorry that we got sidetracked from Peter in Acts to John in Revelation.
IMO, Peter mistook Joel 2 for what happened on the Day of Pentecost
because he had no idea at this point what had just transpired.

Why do you suggest that Peter didn't know by the power of Holy Spirit what had occurred? He never made any mistake. He knew exactly what was happening. He penned what Holy Spirit inspired him to write.
 
Okay, okay ... Peter applied a little bit of Joel 2 to what happened on the Day of Pentecost.
I finally get where y'all are coming from.
Thanks for clearing the dense fog outta my brain.
 
Now, let's see who's ready for Part 2 of the OP.

Yes, the great tribulation comes before Jesus raptures His bride
Matthew 24 (NKJV):
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see
the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they will gather together His elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.


A warning which is NOT only for pre-tribulationists
Revelation 21 (NKJV):
7 He who overcomes
(sorry, not 1 John 5:5) shall inherit all things,
and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part
in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Any cowardly Christian can decide to fall away from the church, and avoid the
horrendous Satanically-inspired persecution (even unto death) coming upon them!
Any cowardly Christian can decide to NOT endure with his faith until his death.
Any cowardly Christian can decide to take the mark of the beast in order to survive.
Sorry, but all of this is more than possible!
 
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Now, let's see who's ready for Part 2 of the OP.

Yes, the great tribulation comes before Jesus raptures His bride
Matthew 24 (NKJV):
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,
and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see
the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they will gather together His elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.


A warning which is NOT only for pre-tribulationists
Revelation 21 (NKJV):
7 He who overcomes
(sorry, not 1 John 5:5) shall inherit all things,
and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part
in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Any cowardly Christian can decide to fall away from the church, and avoid the
horrendous Satanically-inspired persecution (even unto death) coming upon them!
Any cowardly Christian can decide to NOT endure with his faith until his death.
Any cowardly Christian can decide to take the mark of the beast in order to survive.
Sorry, but all of this is more than possible!

You might want to rethink your position as when the second coming of Jesus he will in the clouds, and every eye will see him. At this time he is coming to judge the world, and to defeat the antichrist. When the rapture happens it will happen instantly and it will not be visible to the eyes.

1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.


In the rapture we will meet the Lord in the air. The second coming Jesus comes to the earth.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

The second coming is after the tribulation. The rapture is before the tribulations.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Again all born again believers are all ready overcomers because Jesus overcame the world for us! He has already given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness. God has already given us all things to enjoy! We are already the sons of God.
 
You might want to rethink your position as when the second coming of Jesus he will in the clouds, and every eye will see him. At this time he is coming to judge the world, and to defeat the antichrist. When the rapture happens it will happen instantly and it will not be visible to the eyes.

1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.


In the rapture we will meet the Lord in the air. The second coming Jesus comes to the earth.

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

The second coming is after the tribulation. The rapture is before the tribulations.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Again all born again believers are all ready overcomers because Jesus overcame the world for us! He has already given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness. God has already given us all things to enjoy! We are already the sons of God.

You said the second coming is after the tribulation, and the rapture is before the tribulation... you really need to do more studying on this. Allow me to enlighten you with some scripture to without a doubt provide evidence of this to you.
revelation 13:7 And it was given unto himto make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tounges, and nations...
saints are the sanctified ones, or ones that have been sanctified. The him is the beast or the antichrist, thus the beast will be given authority ( the earth and the fullness thereof belongs to The Lord) to over come Godsown.
Revelation 12:17 and the dragon was wroth with the woman(israel) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed(christians) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There are many more sxriptures but what you said dosent make sence. You are saying Christ will come before he dosent come. The second coming and the rapture are the same thing. The return of Christ is usually the greek word parousia. It can be found a total of 13 times in scripture. 1 corinthinians 15:23; 1 thess. 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2Thess. 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2Peter 1:16; 3:4; 1John 2:28.
Other words in greek that you may find interesting to look up are phanerosis which is found in Col. 3:4, also epiphaneia-found in titus 2:13, apokalypis- luke 2:31 1peter 1:7, 13 and 4:13. The greek word hemera or simply "the day" can be found various times in pauls writings. 1cor 1:8; 2peter 3:11-13. The day or the day of the Lord is a theme found also thru the OT.
I hope this helps you to see what the bible says more clearly.

also read matt 24:4-31, luke 21: and on, and mark 13:5 and on. This shows the same sequence of events. First beginning of sorrows, great trib, and then the second coming/rapture. All three gospels give the exact same ordering of events.
 
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You said the second coming is after the tribulation, and the rapture is before the tribulation... you really need to do more studying on this. Allow me to enlighten you with some scripture to without a doubt provide evidence of this to you.
revelation 13:7 And it was given unto himto make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tounges, and nations...
saints are the sanctified ones, or ones that have been sanctified. The him is the beast or the antichrist, thus the beast will be given authority ( the earth and the fullness thereof belongs to The Lord) to over come Godsown.
Revelation 12:17 and the dragon was wroth with the woman(israel) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed(christians) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There are many more sxriptures but what you said dosent make sence. You are saying Christ will come before he dosent come. The second coming and the rapture are the same thing. The return of Christ is usually the greek word parousia. It can be found a total of 13 times in scripture. 1 corinthinians 15:23; 1 thess. 2:19, 3:13, 4:15, 5:23; 2Thess. 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2Peter 1:16; 3:4; 1John 2:28.
Other words in greek that you may find interesting to look up are phanerosis which is found in Col. 3:4, also epiphaneia-found in titus 2:13, apokalypis- luke 2:31 1peter 1:7, 13 and 4:13. The greek word hemera or simply "the day" can be found various times in pauls writings. 1cor 1:8; 2peter 3:11-13. The day or the day of the Lord is a theme found also thru the OT.
I hope this helps you to see what the bible says more clearly.

also read matt 24:4-31, luke 21: and on, and mark 13:5 and on. This shows the same sequence of events. First beginning of sorrows, great trib, and then the second coming/rapture. All three gospels give the exact same ordering of events.

You are only assuming that the Church are the ones in which the beast was granted power to make war upon. There will be those who will become believers after the Church is gone.

If the Church does go through the tribulation period then Jesus, and Paul lied in these scriptures.....

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word, "hour" refers to a period of time not 60 minutes.
 
You are only assuming that the Church are the ones in which the beast was granted power to make war upon. There will be those who will become believers after the Church is gone.

If the Church does go through the tribulation period then Jesus, and Paul lied in these scriptures.....

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word, "hour" refers to a period of time not 60 minutes.

No. That is no assumption at all. Saints means sanctified ones. It is the church. After the church is raptured thats it. The door is shut as it speaks of in a parable jesus spoke. In revelatioms evidence of this isfoumd here: 15:8 it says, and the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plauges of the seven angels were fufilled.
Now if you would like to cross refrence this try Is. 6:1-4 and exodus 40:34-38 also 1kings 8:10-11. Those are for smoke and Gods glory, however the real interesting part is refrence to no man was able to enter... this means the mercy seat is no longer accessible. No more prayers will be heard until the final judgment is completed which is the vials.
now I am so glad you mentioned revelation 3:10. Which says keep tou from the hour of temptation, this is a scripture highly misquoted by pretribbers. The word temptation in 3:10 is the greek word pierasmos and means a putting to proof, or trial. Its strongs number 3986 if you care to verify. Notice also in revelation 3:10 it says... shall come upon the whole world to try them... notice the word try. This word try here is the same try/tried in revelation 2:10 where it says this.... fear none of those things which thou shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you imto prison, that ye may be TRIED; and ye shall have tribulation ten days be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Now the words try, tried and temptation from both revelation 3:10 & 2:10 all have the same root word.. peira. This word means a test or trial. Now how is it that one of the seven churches is raptured(3:10) as you suggest, but the other is not raptured as scripture says(2:10) these 7 letters are stacked one upon the other and they are sealed for the same time as a message to the churches. There is only one rapture, only one second coming. And yes as you said hour is a period of time not 60 minutes thus we know both letters are for the same time. You see no word for christs return is found in the letters. Not in 3:10 nor in 2:10. Its very simple, revelation 3:10 says nothing of rapture or the second coming, but a teaching of man has misquoted it to say it does.
 
No. That is no assumption at all. Saints means sanctified ones. It is the church. After the church is raptured thats it. The door is shut as it speaks of in a parable jesus spoke. In revelatioms evidence of this isfoumd here: 15:8 it says, and the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plauges of the seven angels were fufilled.
Now if you would like to cross refrence this try Is. 6:1-4 and exodus 40:34-38 also 1kings 8:10-11. Those are for smoke and Gods glory, however the real interesting part is refrence to no man was able to enter... this means the mercy seat is no longer accessible. No more prayers will be heard until the final judgment is completed which is the vials.
now I am so glad you mentioned revelation 3:10. Which says keep tou from the hour of temptation, this is a scripture highly misquoted by pretribbers. The word temptation in 3:10 is the greek word pierasmos and means a putting to proof, or trial. Its strongs number 3986 if you care to verify. Notice also in revelation 3:10 it says... shall come upon the whole world to try them... notice the word try. This word try here is the same try/tried in revelation 2:10 where it says this.... fear none of those things which thou shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you imto prison, that ye may be TRIED; and ye shall have tribulation ten days be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Now the words try, tried and temptation from both revelation 3:10 & 2:10 all have the same root word.. peira. This word means a test or trial. Now how is it that one of the seven churches is raptured(3:10) as you suggest, but the other is not raptured as scripture says(2:10) these 7 letters are stacked one upon the other and they are sealed for the same time as a message to the churches. There is only one rapture, only one second coming. And yes as you said hour is a period of time not 60 minutes thus we know both letters are for the same time. You see no word for christs return is found in the letters. Not in 3:10 nor in 2:10. Its very simple, revelation 3:10 says nothing of rapture or the second coming, but a teaching of man has misquoted it to say it does.

If you suppose that the Church will go through the tribulations period and then when Jesus returns to bring judgement and destroy the antichrist how can the Saints come with him when they are still on earth?

Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 17:13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
 
If you suppose that the Church will go through the tribulations period and then when Jesus returns to bring judgement and destroy the antichrist how can the Saints come with him when they are still on earth?

Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 17:13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
IF you study the scriptures i have provided your question will be answered. I have actually already answered that.
 
Another problem with your assumption is if the rapture and the second coming of Jesus are the same then at the second coming all believers will receive new supernatural bodies, and all the unbelievers will be eradicated from the earth. Who then is going to populate the earth at the time of the millenium? It cannot be the Saints as they will already have supernatural bodies that never die, or reproduce offspring as we know there will be during that time? The only answer it can be are those who became believers during the tribulation who still have natural bodies, and the rapture happened before the tribulation!

Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.
Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

Mar 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?
Mar 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
 
Oh yes, him! (I was in his cave on Patmos 3 years ago. Awesome.)
He experienced wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire,
and vapour of smoke: the sun was turned into darkness, and the moon into blood ...
... but I can't seem to remember exactly when he saw all of this!

That is because you have not done the work to understand the whole book.

If you are a Preterist which seems to me that you are or at least are leaning in that direction, teach that the Book of Revelation is primarily a prophecy about the Roman war against the Jews in Israel that began in a.d. 67 and ended with the destruction of the Temple in a.d. 70.

In order for Revelation to be a prediction of the future (Rev. 1:1, 3, 11, 19; 22:6-10, 16, 18-20) and if it was fulfilled by August a.d. 70, then it had to have been written by a.d. 65 or 66 for the Preterist interpretation to even be a possibility. There is absolutely no other way for the Preterist view to be acceptable except the Revelation be before 70 A.D.

If you have not read any information from the leading Preterist Ken Gentry, he personally has noted this major weakness when he said of fellow early date advocate David Chilton, " if it could be demonstrated that Revelation were written 25 years after the Fall of Jerusalem, Chilton's entire labor would go up in smoke."

Actually, all one would have to do is to show that Revelation was written any time after the destruction of Jerusalem on 70 A.D.

The futurists interpretation is not dependant upon the date of Revelation since it does not matter when these events take place since they are still future to our own time. However, the date of Revelation is essential to the preterist position and explains why they are so focused upon defending an early date.

Today, the overwhelming consensus of scholarship believes that Revelation was written well after a.d. 70. Most have concluded that Revelation was written around a.d. 95, primarily because of the statement by early church father Irenaeus (a.d. 120-202) around a.d. 180.

Now that is a fact which anyone who wants to know and can do the work and confirm for themselves.

It is important to note that Irenaeus was from Asia Minor (modern Turkey). The Apostle John was also from Ephesus in Asia Minor. Irenaeus was discipled in the faith by Polycarp who was discipled by the Apostle John. Thus, there is a direct link between the one who wrote Revelation and Irenaeus. This strongly supports the credibility of Irenaeus and his statement.

It appears logical that if the theory teaching an earlier date of Revelation were genuine, then it should have had a witness to it in Asia Minor and would have begun earlier than the fifth and sixth centuries. If the early date were really true, then it would have had a 30-year head start to establish itself within early church tradition. However, that is not what happened. Such reality argues against the early date view and is a strong support for the late date view.

So then the answer to your comment of.......... "but I can't seem to remember exactly when he saw all of this";
is in a vision from God in 995-96 A.D.
 
Another problem with your assumption is if the rapture and the second coming of Jesus are the same then at the second coming all believers will receive new supernatural bodies, and all the unbelievers will be eradicated from the earth. Who then is going to populate the earth at the time of the millenium? It cannot be the Saints as they will already have supernatural bodies that never die, or reproduce offspring as we know there will be during that time? The only answer it can be are those who became believers during the tribulation who still have natural bodies, and the rapture happened before the tribulation!

Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more.
Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

Mar 12:24 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?
Mar 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Correct!

Two separate events.

Rapture 1st than 7 years later Armageddon when Jesus touches the ground at the Mt. of Olives (Zech. 14:1-10.

The people who (mostly Jews) accept Christ as Saviour and do not take the Mark of the Beast will have to "endure" to the end which will be Armageddon. They will have missed the Rapture because they were not saved from the judgment and Tribulation is going to be a type of judgment. THEY will be alive humans and they will possess the Promised Land which was what God promised the people from the very beginning. They will go into the 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth which is what all of the Prophets spoke of.
 
If you are a Preterist which seems to me that you are or at least are leaning in that direction
No, I never have been.

And, Bible study is only worthwhile if the Holy Spirit is revealing the meaning of what is being read.
Scripture + the Holy Spirit is a 1000 times preferable to the "doctrines of men".
Forget where I read that. lol
 
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