Economics vs Politics

[rtm3039]

very interesting history first hand

It is. We left Cuba, the last time, in 1964. I was 4 years old. My maternal grandmother was a full-press communist and that created a wedge that was never healed.

If you dig deep into Castro's motivation, he did first try to enter Cuban politics the right way. He was betrayed by Batista, when Batista took power and ended free elections. By then, between the influence and interests the US had over Cuba, not to mention the influence and power of the Mafia, " . . . United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports."

At one point, President Kenedy noted: "I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear." (New Republic, 14 Dec. 1963, Jean Daniel "Unofficial Envoy: An Historic Report from Two Capitals," page 16)

Because of its location (90 miles from Key West), FL), Cuba was a strategic location for both the US and Russia. From the way I see it, Castro's alliance with Russia, Venezuela, and other socialist/communist countries, was his only option.

Like I said, this is an interesting topic that even I, a Cuban born, do not fully understand.

 

[Major]

It is. We left Cuba, the last time, in 1964. I was 4 years old. My maternal grandmother was a full-press communist and that created a wedge that was never healed.

If you dig deep into Castro's motivation, he did first try to enter Cuban politics the right way. He was betrayed by Batista, when Batista took power and ended free elections. By then, between the influence and interests the US had over Cuba, not to mention the influence and power of the Mafia, " . . . United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports."

At one point, President Kenedy noted: "I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country's policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear." (New Republic, 14 Dec. 1963, Jean Daniel "Unofficial Envoy: An Historic Report from Two Capitals," page 16)

Because of its location (90 miles from Key West), FL), Cuba was a strategic location for both the US and Russia. From the way I see it, Castro's alliance with Russia, Venezuela, and other socialist/communist countries, was his only option.

Like I said, this is an interesting topic that even I, a Cuban born, do not fully understand.

I admit that I am not anything at all of knowing what you lived. However.....it does seem to me that Castro had several options other than declaring himself a Marxist communist and nationalizing all the companies that helped Cuba before 1961.

 

[Major]

What that economist said is not entirely true. He said the sheiks can't cause inflation, but they can. When they raise oil prices, that inevitable affects the price of everything else. That's why some have talked about our being energy independent so that the oil imports don't have such a catastrophic impact upon our economy. Oil goes, up EVERYTHING goes up.

The federal government going crazy with spending and printing of money, yes, that too has a tremendous impact, but oil runs a close second.

MM

Yes sir.

The price of oil dictates the price of everything. Sad but true.

When the price of oil goes up, the trucks and ships that deliver goods raises their prices to cover that increase.

When the labor unions stage a wage increase, the same things happens.

The key to the Stock Market is STABILITY! No Changes = Stability.

Chaos = Fear

 

[rtm3039]

I admit that I am not anything at all of knowing what you lived. However.....it does seem to me that Castro had several options other than declaring himself a Marxist communist and nationalizing all the companies that helped Cuba before 1961.

I guess, as I was not around until late 1959. The US backed Batista, despite the fact that he was a corrupt military dictator. From what I have read, the companies that "helped" Cuba did so by buying up everything to make Havana the Caribbean version of Las Vagas.

There really were few political ideologies to shop for. Back then, Capitalism and Communism were what's on the menu. The island was going to be exploited by one of the two side, so Castro decided the country would be exploited by Russia, probably because of who the US backed.

It' all a silly game. We have no issues doing business with China or Russia, but we keep Cuba on the terrorism list and can't travel there. Don't get me wrong, I no longer have family in Cuba (well, not anyone I know), but this isolation does appear to be an example of some type of political agenda.

XRay

 

[Major]

I guess, as I was not around until late 1959. The US backed Batista, despite the fact that he was a corrupt military dictator. From what I have read, the companies that "helped" Cuba did so by buying up everything to make Havana the Caribbean version of Las Vagas.

There really were few political ideologies to shop for. Back then, Capitalism and Communism were what's on the menu. The island was going to be exploited by one of the two side, so Castro decided the country would be exploited by Russia, probably because of who the US backed.

It' all a silly game. We have no issues doing business with China or Russia, but we keep Cuba on the terrorism list and can't travel there. Don't get me wrong, I no longer have family in Cuba (well, not anyone I know), but this isolation does appear to be an example of some type of political agenda.

XRay

From what I have read over the years, the Mafia was very involved in gambling and so on in Cuba.

It does seem to me that people who are a lot smarter than me could figure out something on Cuba. I would think that if Cuba renounced Communisn, the pieces would fall into place and they could join the rest of the world instead of driving around in 1955 Fords.

 

[rtm3039]

From what I have read over the years, the Mafia was very involved in gambling and so on in Cuba.

It does seem to me that people who are a lot smarter than me could figure out something on Cuba. I would think that if Cuba renounced Communisn, the pieces would fall into place and they could join the rest of the world instead of driving around in 1955 Fords.

Yea, I get it. But why Cuba? We don't try to get China or Russia to renounce communism? It would appear to me that the best way to do this would be to expose them to the west. It's how the wall came down. I think we have seen the results of two attempts to force ideology down a country's throat, it just does not work well. When it happens, it has to be on their terms.

 

[blueskies]

Although you won’t find the word inflation in scripture you can find an adequate description, one that predates modern economists by over 2,500 years. Then as now, food and fuel prices weren’t always stable.

Unfortunately we also find descriptions of politics and war.

2 Kings 6:25 (KJV) And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.

 

[rtm3039]

Although you won’t find the word inflation in scripture you can find an adequate description, one that predates modern economists by over 2,500 years. Then as now, food and fuel prices weren’t always stable.

Unfortunately we also find descriptions of politics and war.

2 Kings 6:25 (KJV) And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.

I prefer the below translation. It is easier to swallow

25 There was a great famine in the city; the siege lasted so long that a donkey’s head sold for eighty shekels of silver, and a quarter of a cab of seed pods for five shekels.

 

[Major]

Yea, I get it. But why Cuba? We don't try to get China or Russia to renounce communism? It would appear to me that the best way to do this would be to expose them to the west. It's how the wall came down. I think we have seen the results of two attempts to force ideology down a country's throat, it just does not work well. When it happens, it has to be on their terms.

Because as you said.......it is 90 miles from USA. There is a thing called the Monroe Doctrine. It was about any interference from European countries on the western side of Atlantic.

Personally, I think that normal relations with Cuba would end Communism within a year!

 

[Major]

Although you won’t find the word inflation in scripture you can find an adequate description, one that predates modern economists by over 2,500 years. Then as now, food and fuel prices weren’t always stable.

Unfortunately we also find descriptions of politics and war.

2 Kings 6:25 (KJV) And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.

War and sieges always led to inflation and high costs because of supply and demand.

 

[rtm3039]

Because as you said.......it is 90 miles from USA. There is a thing called the Monroe Doctrine. It was about any interference from European countries on the western side of Atlantic.

Personally, I think that normal relations with Cuba would end Communism within a year!

The whole idea of Russia being European, to include the idea of "Europeanization," has had a long history. I do agree with your second comment, just not sure it would be as quick as one year. It would be hard for a Republican president to make the commitment, especially with this mystical political clout that Miami's old Cubans appear to have. I believe the Cuban people on the island are more than ready to make the jump, but it would probably not be as violence free as watching the Berlin wall fall.

 

[Major]

The whole idea of Russia being European, to include the idea of "Europeanization," has had a long history. I do agree with your second comment, just not sure it would be as quick as one year. It would be hard for a Republican president to make the commitment, especially with this mystical political clout that Miami's old Cubans appear to have. I believe the Cuban people on the island are more than ready to make the jump, but it would probably not be as violence free as watching the Berlin wall fall.

You are probably right. I personally m friends with 3 Cuban families and I do not know of any more harder working and more paterotic people than them! I think that if communism was replaced with democracy - Cuba would explode into a powerhouse of economic production.

 

[Major]

Yea, I get it. But why Cuba? We don't try to get China or Russia to renounce communism? It would appear to me that the best way to do this would be to expose them to the west. It's how the wall came down. I think we have seen the results of two attempts to force ideology down a country's throat, it just does not work well. When it happens, it has to be on their terms.

WHY not Russia and China?

NUMBERS and Exposure. Russia and China can block TV and internet services so that the masses can not be exposed to democracy.
All they see is what the govt. wants them to see.

Cuba is a failed state! I wonder if we all know what the minimum wage is in Cuba? It is $17.00. Not an hour or a day but a MONTH!!!!

 

[rtm3039]

War and sieges always led to inflation and high costs because of supply and demand.

You are probably right. I personally m friends with 3 Cuban families and I do not know of any more harder working and more paterotic people than them! I think that if communism was replaced with democracy - Cuba would explode into a powerhouse of economic production.

I left very young but got to return in 2002 as a government employee. We were locked at Guantanamo, so I did not get to see any of the island. I suspect that it would take quite a while to address the infrastructure. I also see a serious conflict and power struggle. The Cubans here in Miami have their own government in absentia. If Cuba opens up as a free democracy, the Cubans here will want to regain power and the Cubans there will resist and claim that the Cubans here "ran away" from the country and will not just walk in and take over.

On the other side, there would be massive legal battles. All those who "owned" property and other financial interests had them taken away by the Castro government. I suspect they will all start legal actions to get their properties back. I personally know of several Cuban families who fully intent on seeking legal action to get back what they had taken away. The bottom line is that Cuba has been in conflict since Christopher Columbus arrived in Cuba and claimed the island for Spain.

 

[rtm3039]

Had no idea how often a gallon of milk cost more than a gallon of gas.

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov
1 Gal Milk	$ 3.95	$ 3.96	$ 4.16	$ 4.26	$ 4.43	$ 4.55	$ 4.54	$ 4.47	$ 4.47	$ 4.42	$ 4.42
Loaf of W-Bread	$ 1.56	$ 1.58	$ 1.61	$ 1.61	$ 1.61	$ 1.69	$ 1.72	$ 1.76	$ 1.75	$ 1.81	$ 1.85
Doz Eggs A	$ 1.93	$ 2.01	$ 2.05	$ 2.52	$ 2.86	$ 2.71	$ 2.94	$ 3.12	$ 2.90	$ 3.42	$ 3.59
1 Lb Ground Chuck	$ 4.77	$ 4.63	$ 4.87	$ 4.95	$ 4.85	$ 5.00	$ 5.08	$ 5.12	$ 4.89	$ 4.79	$ 4.73
1 Lb Chicken	$ 1.62	$ 1.63	$ 1.72	$ 1.79	$ 1.82	$ 1.83	$ 1.88	$ 1.88	$ 2.89	$ 2.86	$ 1.84
1 Gal Gas	$ 3.19	$ 3.40	$ 4.08	$ 3.96	$ 4.27	$ 4.76	$ 4.41	$ 3.82	$ 3.56	$ 3.64	$ 3.53