EGYPT AND THE NEWS.

It should be noted when talking about the "Millenium" it does not say that Christ will reign for 1,000 year but that those who were beheaded (literally decapitated) for Christ and are returned to life in the LIMITED first resurrection, THEY reign with Him for 1,000 years. ALL power in heaven and Earth was given to Christ Jesus BEFORE He ascended into Heaven.

Also as the REST of the dead (that's everybody NOT decapitated for Christ before the 1,000 years) are not raised until AFTER the 1,000 years, and those still alive in Christ are not changed to meet Him in the air, it is abundantly clear the 1,000 years occurs ***BEFORE*** Christ returns.

Might I also recommend people do some serious in depth investigation into the 1,000 year reign of the Byzantine Christian Empire and the actual WORDS of Eusebius and Constantine The Great.
 
People, Daniel has said/written: "he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many." Daniel 11:44, so, no way after Daniel has knew and warned about this, at the same time to has used the words literally, otherwise he would vow entire nations to destruction, because just in the previous verse(43) he mentions about: "Egypt", "Libyans", and "Ethiopians", so that, more likely he uses the/these words in some symbolic spiritual meaning - the true Prophets are Saviors, not destroyers/murderers.
 
shilohsfoal said:
Are you saying that those who do not worship the beast and are killed for thier tesimony of Christ do not reign with Christ for 1000 years?Im not saying that I shall reign.Im just saying who they are.

Rev 20;4


4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
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No! Not in the least, what would make you think that?

Shalom!
 
qtld said:
People, Daniel has said/written: "he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many." Daniel 11:44, so, no way after Daniel has knew and warned about this, at the same time to has used the words literally, otherwise he would vow entire nations to destruction, because just in the previous verse(43) he mentions about: "Egypt", "Libyans", and "Ethiopians", so that, more likely he uses the/these words in some symbolic spiritual meaning - the true Prophets are Saviors, not destroyers/murderers.
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The Prophecies Of Daniel 11 were actually fulfilled by the events leading up to the destruction of the last Jewish stronghold of MASADA in 74AD and the final scattering of the "power of the Holy People" among the heathen nations.

The Prophecy of Daniel 11 continues over into Daniel 12 where one of the Angels asks of the man in Linen ""How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" (Dan 12:6) Meaning the things in the prophecy just given. To which the one in linen replies:

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (Daniel 12: 7)
This scattering of the power of the Holy People is a reference to the sevenfold increasing curses of Leviticus 26:14-46 and specifically to the last of the curses which is the TOTAL destruction of all cities, temples and high places of Israel and the scattering of Israel among the heathen nations:-

Leviticus 26:27 "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste."

Masada was the LAST city and stronghold of Israel to fall to the Romans, and with it the end of Israel as a nation and the scattering of its people, government and armies among the nations as a powerless and homeless people. This happened in 74AD and fulfilled the final curse of Leviticus 26. It also accomplished the "scattering of the power of the Holy people" as mentioned in Daniel 12:7 thus FINISHING the things prophecied in Daniel 11.

By the word of God Himself the prophecies of Daniel 11 have already come to pass into where all prophecies of the Lord eventually come to pass into - the history of the world.
 
Ginger said:
Pre-tribulation can't be the correct interpretation, because Christians are going to be pursecuted during this time, so we have to be here for at least part of the tribulation period.

So it must be either mid-tribulation or post.

In favor of a post-tribulation, I would ask After Jesus comes for the whole world to see, what would be the point in continuing the tribualtion? Isn't that the time of judgment?
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Ginger,

Yes, those who come to Christ during the Tribulation and do not take the Mark of the Beast will be saved, and then they will be persecuted and killed by the A/C, but I do not find the church in that group.

IMO, because those who come to Christ during the Trib. and are pursecuted does not validate Post Trib. theory.

Then when we read Rev. 6 we enter the last division of the book of Revelation and with it it all of its judgments and wrath. The judgments begin at chapter 6 and they would not be in harmony if the church remained in the world because it would frustrate the grace of God because He has promised to deliver the church from judgment.

1 Thess. 5:1
"For God hath NOT appointed US to WRATH but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

How is it that at one statement of Christ's coming everyone's afraid and in the other they've gathered to battle Him?

How can there be only one coming of Christ in the end and scripture remain accurate and in agreement with itself? Either we can say scripture is in error because there is only one coming of Christ or we can say this explains how scripture states that there are two comings of Christ.

If there are two comings of Christ, when would the first one be before Armageddon and why would it happen? A pre-wrath perspective from scripture answers those questions because we are not appointed to wrath and just as Noah and Lot were saved before the destruction came, so must we be and according to scripture that is the case. This is the escape of the bride of Christ to the marriage of the Lamb. Because God's wrath is not for the children of obedience.

Ephesians 5:1-8 They know God and obey His ways of love and are filled with His Holy Spirit. They have the oil in their lamps to go out and meet the bridegroom upon being called to meet Him. Matthew 25:1-13 This is before the sudden and unexpected destruction that comes like a thief on the day of the Lord. That begins the wrath from the Almighty and it comes before Armageddon and has to. Since Christ is coming at both mutually exclusive times, He must come twice. First at the Raptue and Second at Armageddon.


1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
 
Y'shua friend. said:
Rev. 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

I believe my friend that if you do an in deapth study on the aspects of the Millennium, you will find that it is actually a 1000 year training period for all the redeemed in Yeshua, you see we are very slow learners, so it appears that it will take some of us a thousand years to get our walk right. It is the time that Yeshua HaMashiach rules with the rod of iron. Following the Millennium the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven from G-d, and with G-d; and since sin can not exist in the presence of Ha’Elyon (The most High G-d.) We have to have it right, or we would cease to exist upon coming into the presence of G-d.

Blessings my friend, shalom!
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Now I believe that you are on the right track myfriend, but then how do you then explain Revelation 20:7-10?

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

According to those verses, even after 1000 years we still haven't got it right.

Any thoughts?/
 
Y'shua friend. said:
No! Not in the least, what would make you think that?

Shalom!
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The Preterist view - requires that the book of Revelation be written prior to 70 AD. However, almost all historical scholars agree that the book was written in 95 to 96 AD. If this is true, preterist theology cannot stand. This view also requires us to believe that the prophecies were fulfilled in a manner different from the clear descriptions in the prophecies. Obscure historical events are used by the preterist to try to fulfill the prophecies but few if any credible historians think that past events happened as described in Revelation and the Olivet discourse.This view also requires that many unfulfilled prophetic passages in the Bible be explained away by allegorizing them and spiritualizing them to the Church.

The preterist says Christ is already ruling in His kingdom on earth and thus the earth will become progressively better. Yet, scripture indicates the world will get more evil until the judgment. What we see happening in the world confirms that the world is not becoming more Christian and less evil; it is becoming less Christian and more evil. Most in this theology have also embraced replacement or supersession theology (the Church is Israel or replaces Israel). They see no fulfillment of prophecy for natural Israel. However, any common sense reading of prophecy and the book of Romans makes it abundantly clear that God will restore the natural descendents of Israel in the end times.
 
Major said:
The Preterist view - requires that the book of Revelation be written prior to 70 AD. However, almost all historical scholars agree that the book was written in 95 to 96 AD.
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I don't know it's reliability but from Wikipedia:

According to early tradition, this book was composed near the end of Domitian's reign, around the year 95 AD. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69 AD, in the reign of Nero or shortly thereafter.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#cite_note-22 The majority of modern scholars accept one of these two dates, with most accepting the Domitianic one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#cite_note-Books.google.com-4
 
Guys, i still am afraid that you do not understand the difference between "prophecy" and "prediction", the prophecy is not prediction nor clairvoyance, but the prophecy is witness schemes for something or all about the faith, while the prediction is just prognostic or/and clairvoyancy. The true prophets deal only with true prophecies, and not with predictions, false-prophecies or clairvoyance, while only the false prophets deal with predictions, false-prophecies or clairvoyancy.
For example, Daniel 11 & 12 chapters are not prediction nor clairvoyance, but it is prophetic schemes about the faith, for: which and what is the correct faith and which/what is not. Jesus says: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" Matthew 24:15-16, from which is seen that this is not prediction or clairvoyance about whatever before Christ, because He point this prophecy thereafter.
So, the true prophets are trying to say e.g.: if the believer believes only in the true Lord God, then(in such case) he/she joined right in this respect, but if not, then this is not so Good, and so on...

Here are some proofs:

Deuteronomy 18:9-22 "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire(ie through the unclean faith/religion/spirituality), or that useth divination, or an observer of times(ie clairvoyant), or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits(ie with unclean spirits), or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times(ie clairvoyants), and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire(ie this (very) dangerous spirituality/religion/occultism) any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die(ie shall stop). And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not(ie if the word is not the truth about My Prefect/Eternal Love/Salvation/Life), nor come to pass(ie nor the real facts about My Prefect/Eternal Love/Salvation/Life), that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
 
Major said:
Ginger,

Yes, those who come to Christ during the Tribulation and do not take the Mark of the Beast will be saved, and then they will be persecuted and killed by the A/C, but I do not find the church in that group.

IMO, because those who come to Christ during the Trib. and are pursecuted does not validate Post Trib. theory.

Then when we read Rev. 6 we enter the last division of the book of Revelation and with it it all of its judgments and wrath. The judgments begin at chapter 6 and they would not be in harmony if the church remained in the world because it would frustrate the grace of God because He has promised to deliver the church from judgment.

This is speaking of the Apocalypse which I believe has already started now, rather than G-d's judgment or wrath I understand this to be G-d's tough love, designed to redeem a lost generation that has come to the point of worshiping G-d's blessings, rather than G-d Himself. It is designed to take away mankind's trust/security in the strength of his material wealth, and turn them back to G-d. Remember who it is that is opening the seals,"Yeshua," who's mission it is to redeem men right up to the end, and then comes sudden destruction upon those which are nonredeemable.


1 Thess. 5:1
"For God hath NOT appointed US to WRATH but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

How is it that at one statement of Christ's coming everyone's afraid and in the other they've gathered to battle Him?

How can there be only one coming of Christ in the end and scripture remain accurate and in agreement with itself? Either we can say scripture is in error because there is only one coming of Christ or we can say this explains how scripture states that there are two comings of Christ.

If there are two comings of Christ, when would the first one be before Armageddon and why would it happen? A pre-wrath perspective from scripture answers those questions because we are not appointed to wrath and just as Noah and Lot were saved before the destruction came, so must we be and according to scripture that is the case. This is the escape of the bride of Christ to the marriage of the Lamb. Because God's wrath is not for the children of obedience.

Ephesians 5:1-8 They know God and obey His ways of love and are filled with His Holy Spirit. They have the oil in their lamps to go out and meet the bridegroom upon being called to meet Him. Matthew 25:1-13 This is before the sudden and unexpected destruction that comes like a thief on the day of the Lord. That begins the wrath from the Almighty and it comes before Armageddon and has to. Since Christ is coming at both mutually exclusive times, He must come twice. First at the Raptue and Second at Armageddon.


1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Click to expand...
 
Major said:
Now I believe that you are on the right track myfriend, but then how do you then explain Revelation 20:7-10?

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

According to those verses, even after 1000 years we still haven't got it right.

Any thoughts?/
Click to expand...

Down through the years I have found some interesting tidbits throughout the Torah in regard to the Millennium, since much that is given is in fragments of a little peace here, and a little peace there; I have spent much time in prayer and meditation seeking understanding into the things that are given. I can not say that I have the absolute final answers to all that is given, but I do believe that Ruach, Kodesh (the Holy Spirit) has unveiled at least some of the mystery's.

It is my belief from what I have found that children which died untimely deaths before reaching the age of understanding of either good or evil, will receive their chance during the Millennium to both grow to maturity, and receive Yeshua's redeeming grace also. And just as we are tried and tested, they likewise will be tried and tested at the end to determine which side they will choose to serve, the side of G-d, or of the Tempter? Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Isaiah 11:6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den."

Isaiah 49:20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. 21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? 22 Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. 23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. 24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered? 25 But thus saith the Lord, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children." Who is it that we contend with but the destroyer, "Satan?"


Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

Zech. 8:4 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. 5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. 6 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts." Amen!

YHWH is not only a G-d of infinite powers, but even more so He is a G-d of infinite love for each and every one of us the children of His creation.

Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." Amen!

Shalom!
 
Y'shua friend. said:
No! Not in the least, what would make you think that?

Shalom!
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Because when I had said that those who were beheaded would reign for 1000 years you said if I had would do an indept study that I would find the 1000 years would be a training period.
You had said it as if I was wrong when all I was doing was saying the same thing that is in the scripture.

You quoted-
Rev. 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Personally I think Rev13;7 is a very good discription of the waters where the whore sitteth.
Rev 17;15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Both verses are a good discription of Those who dwell in Israel today.The children of the city of Jerusalem.A good discription of immigrants who have followed after the beast from all nations.

But this is what you said to make me think that.--

I believe my friend that if you do an in deapth study on the aspects of the Millennium, you will find that it is actually a 1000 year training period for all the redeemed in Yeshua, you see we are very slow learners, so it appears that it will take some of us a thousand years to get our walk right. It is the time that Yeshua HaMashiach rules with the rod of iron. Following the Millennium the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven from G-d, and with G-d; and since sin can not exist in the presence of Ha’Elyon (The most High G-d.) We have to have it right, or we would cease to exist upon coming into the presence of G-d.
 
shilohsfoal said:
Because when I had said that those who were beheaded would reign for 1000 years you said if I had would do an indept study that I would find the 1000 years would be a training period.
You had said it as if I was wrong when all I was doing was saying the same thing that is in the scripture.

No I did not mean to say that you were wrong, but only to add some further food for thought to the discussion.

You quoted-
Rev. 13: 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Personally I think Rev13;7 is a very good discription of the waters where the whore sitteth.
Rev 17;15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Yes this is self descriptive, the waters represent many peoples.


Both verses are a good discription of Those who dwell in Israel today.The children of the city of Jerusalem.A good discription of immigrants who have followed after the beast from all nations.

How would these verses describe the people who dwell in Israel? And what beast would they be following?



But this is what you said to make me think that.--

I believe my friend that if you do an in deapth study on the aspects of the Millennium, you will find that it is actually a 1000 year training period for all the redeemed in Yeshua, you see we are very slow learners, so it appears that it will take some of us a thousand years to get our walk right. It is the time that Yeshua HaMashiach rules with the rod of iron. Following the Millennium the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven from G-d, and with G-d; and since sin can not exist in the presence of Ha’Elyon (The most High G-d.) We have to have it right, or we would cease to exist upon coming into His presence.
Click to expand...
 
Y'shua friend. said:
Down through the years I have found some interesting tidbits throughout the Torah in regard to the Millennium, since much that is given is in fragments of a little peace here, and a little peace there; I have spent much time in prayer and meditation seeking understanding into the things that are given. I can not say that I have the absolute final answers to all that is given, but I do believe that Ruach, Kodesh (the Holy Spirit) has unveiled at least some of the mystery's.

It is my belief from what I have found that children which died untimely deaths before reaching the age of understanding of either good or evil, will receive their chance during the Millennium to both grow to maturity, and receive Yeshua's redeeming grace also. And just as we are tried and tested, they likewise will be tried and tested at the end to determine which side they will choose to serve, the side of G-d, or of the Tempter? Matthew 22:30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Isaiah 11:6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den."

Isaiah 49:20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. 21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? 22 Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. 23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. 24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered? 25 But thus saith the Lord, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children." Who is it that we contend with but the destroyer, "Satan?"


Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

Zech. 8:4 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. 5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. 6 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts." Amen!

YHWH is not only a G-d of infinite powers, but even more so He is a G-d of infinite love for each and every one of us the children of His creation.

Matthew 18:14 "Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." Amen!

Shalom!
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Well thought out and obviousely prayed over and reasearched. I agree with you in many areas but may I give you something to thing about.

During the Tribulation, a great multitude of people will be saved and they will enter the Millinium as LIVE human beings. There is nothing in the Scriptures that even hint that all the believers coming out of the Tribulation will lose their lives but in fact it is the opposite. Now having understood that, we can be sure that these LIVE HUMAN BEINGS will get married and have children.

This acttion has nothing to do with Matt. 22:30 because that is a "comparitive" statement from Jesus to explain how RESURRECTED saints will be in heaven. He compared them to the angels who are ASEXUAL and do not procreate(have sex).

So, then the children born to humans will be humans and since there is no more "infant of days" according to the verse of Isaiah you used.............then these HUMAN chaildren will grow up in a world free of the temtations of Satan since he is chained in the pit. When is lossened for a season at the end of the 1000 years he then tempts these humans for their FIRST time and a great many will follow him according to Rev. 20:7-10 which leads to the 2nd battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years.

I appreciate your work on this but IMO I do not see children or mentally ill being given a 2nd chance in the Scriptures.

May the Lord Jesus bless you!
 

We can call it anything we want to call it but allow me to tell you what God calls it my friend...................
An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

That is where the SEVEN YEAR Tribulation comes from in the Scriptures. Now many do not accept that and the fact is that if we reject those words of Daniel then those verses of the Scriptures simply need to be torn out of the Bible. Now, having established that fact, then a great many people understand that the last half (1260 days) of the Tribulation Period is called the "GREAT Tribulation Period".

The A/C comes in peace and for 1260 days acts as the great god doing signs and miracles (Rev. 13). Then at the mid-point he stands in the re-built temple and declares to be God. THAT EVENT then begins the GREAT TRIBULATION.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: .................
“He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

Matthew 24:15


15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

Daniel 7:25


25" He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time".(1260 days 0r 3 1/2 years).
 
qtld said:
Guys, i still am afraid that you do not understand the difference between "prophecy" and "prediction", the prophecy is not prediction nor clairvoyance, but the prophecy is witness schemes for something or all about the faith, while the prediction is just prognostic or/and clairvoyancy. The true prophets deal only with true prophecies, and not with predictions, false-prophecies or clairvoyance, while only the false prophets deal with predictions, false-prophecies or clairvoyancy.
For example, Daniel 11 & 12 chapters are not prediction nor clairvoyance, but it is prophetic schemes about the faith, for: which and what is the correct faith and which/what is not. Jesus says: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" Matthew 24:15-16, from which is seen that this is not prediction or clairvoyance about whatever before Christ, because He point this prophecy thereafter.
So, the true prophets are trying to say e.g.: if the believer believes only in the true Lord God, then(in such case) he/she joined right in this respect, but if not, then this is not so Good, and so on...

Here are some proofs:

Deuteronomy 18:9-22 "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire(ie through the unclean faith/religion/spirituality), or that useth divination, or an observer of times(ie clairvoyant), or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits(ie with unclean spirits), or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times(ie clairvoyants), and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire(ie this (very) dangerous spirituality/religion/occultism) any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die(ie shall stop). And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not(ie if the word is not the truth about My Prefect/Eternal Love/Salvation/Life), nor come to pass(ie nor the real facts about My Prefect/Eternal Love/Salvation/Life), that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Click to expand...

My dear friends...........this is very simple.

The differance between PROPHECY and PREDICTION is TIME.

When the man of God speaks for God and makes a PROPHECY, he is actually speaking God's Words.

Since the Scripture tell us that God can not lie then IN THE FULLNESS of TIME those words will become fulfilled.

Nostradamus made "predictions" and of all the ones he made, about 5% were accurate and one has to work really hard to get even that percentage.

Compare that to the Bible, the Word of God and you will be staggared. The Bible Prophecies are 100% accurate. Every single prophecy from God has taken place up to today. Some will want to contest that by saying the things in the Revelation and Daniel have not happened yet. Correct, the right word is YET.

The Rapture is the next Prophetic event on God's time clock. THEN all the prophecies will be fulfilled one after the other as TIME marches on.
 
jonbanjo said:
I don't know it's reliability but from Wikipedia:

According to early tradition, this book was composed near the end of Domitian's reign, around the year 95 AD. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69 AD, in the reign of Nero or shortly thereafter.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#cite_note-22 The majority of modern scholars accept one of these two dates, with most accepting the Domitianic one.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#cite_note-Books.google.com-4
Click to expand...

Hello Jo,
Here in this discussion you see right in front of you the process of making the Scriptures FIT what we want them to say.

The Book of Revelation has been traditionally dated by scholars to have been written in or about 96 AD. Obviously this date would completely prevent anyone from accepting the Preterist theory that the events described in Revelation took place some 25 years earlier in 70 AD. Preterist scholars quickly recognize that dating the book in 96 AD utterly destroys their theory, therefore, they must challenge this dating. And so they have.
Where does the 95 date come from?
Irenaeus' work, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chp. 30, written in the mid to late 100's AD.

On this point we cannot ignore the fact that the entire Preterist doctrine hangs in the balance on this one simple question. With that in mind, there is little doubt that what Preterists find so compelling to cause them to disagree with the traditional date is the fact that their theory cannot survive so long as the traditional date stands.
 
Major
Just wanted to thank you for confirming that I am not a Preterist for I do not believe any of those things you mentioned any more than you do.

That I do not is amply demonstrated in my various postings and videos so no discussion is required as people can see it for themselves easily enough. Just wanted to thank you for clarifying it for everybody.
 
To those discussing the great tribulation I have a question. John in writing Revelation around 96ad counted himself as in the tribulation when he said: Rev 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation". And we know from the history books that after the ascension of Jesus and the fall of Jerusalem and Masada that our brothers and sisters in Christ were fed to lions' dipped in oil and burnt as human torches' beheaded, torn apart and brutally tortured and murdered mercilessly and endlessly in a persecution and killing spree that lasted until after 300AD. Indeed except that those says were cut short by the victory of Constantine the great no Christian flesh might have survived.

The question is what greater tribulation than this could you possibly be waiting for??

I also noted some reference to the warning of Jesus about Daniels prophecy. Are you all aware that the followers of Christ escaped the destruction of Jerusalem because they took the advice of Jesus when they saw the Roman soldiers fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel Jesus spoke of and fled Jerusalem before it was totally destroyed?

When discussing prophecy it is important to look at the factual reality of world history because THAT is where you will SEE it fulfilled.
 
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