Enoch

[LearningToLetGo]

Moving on to the parables ( section 2, En. 37-71) I came across something noteworthy in En. 46 and 48. Both refer to "Son of Man". Here's an excerpt.

"This is the son of Man who hath righteousness, with whom dwelleth righteousness, And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden, Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him, and whose lot hath pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits for ever." (46.3)

Times like this I wish we could establish the bona-fides for this text since I don't know how it might have changed over the centuries. This text appears to be about Jesus but without a proper paper trail someone could easily have slipped this in after the fact

That's a shame. At least canon text has been dutifully copied and properly vetted.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Jumping down to chapter 51, verse 3.

"And the Elect One shall in those days sit on My throne, And his mouth shall pour forth all the secrets of wisdom and counsel: For the Lord of Spirits hath given (them) to him and hath glorified him."

The "Elect One" seems distinct from "the elect" mentioned elsewhere. It appears to be a callback to the aforementioned "Son of Man". The fact that he is sitting on God's throne also strongly suggests that.

 

[Major]

Pretty sure those things were the Watchers... It was a bad movie in a fun way, I suppose.

Brother, I love you but you must know that Genesis 6 makes no mention of rock giants—or fallen angels—helping Noah build the ark.
There is also NO mention of those rock giants fighting off the people trying to enter the Ark.

Only the Book of Enoch states that the Watchers shared secret knowledge with their sons that led to the corruption of the world. ONLY the book of Enoch says that The giants ravaged the earth, filling it with destruction and evil; they depleted the world of food and terrified humankind. These actions trigger the flood.

However, the Bible says in Genesis 6:5-7 that the flood came because of MAN'S sin..........
"The Lord saw that the wickedness of MAN was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord regretted that he had made MAN on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."

Do you see how any reliance on the book of Enoch can lead to some really bad ideas????

 

[Major]

Moving on to the parables ( section 2, En. 37-71) I came across something noteworthy in En. 46 and 48. Both refer to "Son of Man". Here's an excerpt.

"This is the son of Man who hath righteousness, with whom dwelleth righteousness, And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden, Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him, and whose lot hath pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits for ever." (46.3)

Times like this I wish we could establish the bona-fides for this text since I don't know how it might have changed over the centuries. This text appears to be about Jesus but without a proper paper trail someone could easily have slipped this in after the fact

That's a shame. At least canon text has been dutifully copied and properly vetted.

Brother......I implore you to do some more research on this topic and not take what you read from the book of Enoch on face value.

In the parable you posted, I must point out to you that if and when you accept a literal translation of the passage rather than the emended translation offered by some commentators, you can then understand that the verse actually read...... “You are that Son of Man,” thus identifying Enoch as this Messianic figure.!!!!

 

[LearningToLetGo]

“You are that Son of Man,” thus identifying Enoch as this Messianic figure.!!!!

I didn't see that. Perhaps I haven't got there yet, or maybe I have a bad copy. Either way, please don't yell at me!!! It's not polite

 

[Major]

I will. You can count on it. My thesis regarding the Greek gods, Hercules, Achilles and the adventures of Ulysses will *blow* your mind!

Sneak peak: the cyclops that trapped Ulysses in the cave was a ... ( wait for it ) ... Giant!

God love ya brother but do you understand that you are trying to use Greek mythology to validate your support of the Occultic book of Enoch????

Greek Mythology = gods that controlled all aspects of life, from weather to emotions.

Any Psychologist will tell us that humans create mythological gods to understand the unexplainable when they reject the written Word of God that actually does explain the unexplainable.

Many years ago, Carl Jung even wrote that deities are manifestations of the collective unconscious.

 

[Major]

I didn't see that. Perhaps I haven't got there yet, or maybe I have a bad copy. Either way, please don't yell at me!!! It's not polite

Sorry....was not yelling! Just highlighting something of highest importance!

 

[YeshuaFan]

No. That document is the Assumption of Moses. There is only one incomplete Latin translation of a Greek text from the 6th century. The section concerning that event is missing. However, according to Origen, we know that account was found in that document during his time.

So while the majority of the text was false, that portion was historically accurate, as was included by the Holy Spirit as being true ?

 

[YeshuaFan]

What a terrible movie.

My wife wanted to see it and we could not watch it to the end.

What was those "things" that helped build the Ark and then they fought off all the people. Then there was a stowaway!????

I looked all through by assorted Bibles and could not find those events.

Think that movie was based upon book of Enoch period

 

[YeshuaFan]

No sir. Jude 9. It is found no where else.

"Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

It has also been supposed that Jude is quoting an apocryphal book that contained this account, and that Jude means to confirm that the account is true. Origen (c. 185–254), an early Christian scholar and theologian, mentions the book “The Assumption of Moses” as extant in his time, containing this very account of the contest between Michael and the devil about the body of Moses. That book, now lost, was a Jewish Greek book, and Origen supposed that this was the source of the account in Jude.

So that would mean that the story of the account between Michael and Satan was historically accurate, but not that the book was considered to be canonical and inspired?

 

[YeshuaFan]

And THAT my dear brother is exactly what I have been saying all along.

I had to read and digest that book because a professor wanted us to "See" the difference between truth and false teaching and he said there was no better example of Satan's false lies than the book of Enoch.

Isnt there though in the inspired scriptures Jude also referring us to Enoch being 7th generation from Adam?

 

[YeshuaFan]

God love ya brother but do you understand that you are trying to use Greek mythology to validate your support of the Occultic book of Enoch????

Greek Mythology = gods that controlled all aspects of life, from weather to emotions.

Any Psychologist will tell us that humans create mythological gods to understand the unexplainable when they reject the written Word of God that actually does explain the unexplainable.

Many years ago, Carl Jung even wrote that deities are manifestations of the collective unconscious.

Here is another bombastic thought, what if Satan and/or some of His demons in ancient past actually represent themselves off to mankind as bient "gods of ancient times" basis for the myths like a zeus or hercules?

 

[bobinfaith]

You end up with the trash movie that was called Noah

What a terrible movie. My wife wanted to see it and we could not watch it to the end. What was those "things" that helped build the Ark and then they fought off all the people. Then there was a stowaway!???? I looked all through by assorted Bibles and could not find those events.

Christian movies are notorious for two things. 1. Bad acting. 2. Off the wall theology.

Your posts caught my attention. Are we talking about the Noah movie where the people in "paddle boats" came up to the Ark begging Noah to let them board? Or when Noah had glass jars on the Ark, with lids? lol!

crossnote, does this include The Ten Commandments, with Edward G. Robinson?

 

[Major]

Here is another bombastic thought, what if Satan and/or some of His demons in ancient past actually represent themselves off to mankind as bientPsychology suggests that humans create gods to understand the unexplainable. Carl Jung even proposed that deities are manifestations of the collective unconscious.

But isnt that exactly what happened?????

I am blessed that you brought this up as it allow me to say that the Bible teaches that Satan is also identical to Zeus.

Jesus says in Matthew 12:26-27......
“And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out?” According to the Word of God.... Satan is identical to Beelzebul, i.e. Baal in this passage.

Again, the Bible teaches that Satan is also identical to Zeus.

Jesus tells the church at Pergamum, in Rev. 2:13......
“I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells”.

Actual Archeologists dogmatically maintain that “Satan’s throne” refers to the well-known “Altar of Zeus,” that was taken by the Germans and brought to Berlin. Thus, Satan is Zeus.

If you take the time to compare religions from around the world, all recognize that Baal and Zeus are the same deity via the process known as interpretatio graeca. Both are the storm-lightning god and lord of heaven.

Curiously, Jesus tells us that he saw Satan "fall like lightning from heaven" in Luke 10:18, an apropos description if he is referring to the lightning god.

Of course, Baal is called an elohim in the OT in Jdg 10:6; Jer 7:9.

This parallels Paul calling Satan a “god” in the NT. And obviously, I think everyone knows that Zeus is considered a god by the Greeks and Romans. Therefore, the only biblical conclusion we can infer if we believe that demons, angels, and Satan truly exist is that the Bible calls them elohim and therefore, according to the Bible, the gods do in fact exist. Zeus is real. He is the biblical character known as Satan.

And as Paul Harvy used to say.......That is the rest of the story!

 

[Major]

Your posts caught my attention. Are we talking about the Noah movie where the people in "paddle boats" came up to the Ark begging Noah to let them board? Or when Noah had glass jars on the Ark, with lids? lol!

crossnote, does this include The Ten Commandments, with Edward G. Robinson?

I was talking about the one where "Rock Creatures" built the Ark and killed all the people who tried to get on board and a man snook on board.

 

[Major]

So that would mean that the story of the Comparative religions all recognize that Baal and Zeus are the same deity via the process known as interpretatio graeca. Both are the storm-lightning god and lord of heaven. Curiously, Jesus tells us that he saw Satan "fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18), an apropos description if he is referring to the lightning god. Of course, Baal is called an elohim in the OT (Jdg 10:6; Jer 7:9; etc.). This parallels Paul calling Satan a “god” in the NT. And obviously, as we began this post, Zeus is considered a god by the Greeks and Romans. Therefore, the only biblical conclusion we can infer if we believe that demons, angels, and Satan truly exist is that the Bible calls them elohim and therefore, according to the Bible, the gods do in fact exist. Zeus is real. He is the biblical character known as Satan.was historically accurate, but not that the book was considered to be canonical and inspired?

Correct.

The fact that Jude 1:14 references Enoch’s prophecy does not make every part, or any part for that matter of the Book of Enoch or other related texts divinely inspired. It simply provides a relevant illustration that confirms God’s judgment on the ungodly.

 

[Major]

Think that movie was based upon book of Enoch period

Agreed.

And that fact alone proves my point of rejected the book of Enoch as science fiction.

 

[crossnote]

crossnote, does this include The Ten Commandments, with Edward G. Robinson?

There's always the exception to the rule, besides that one was Jewish. lol

 

[bobinfaith]

I was talking about the one where "Rock Creatures" built the Ark and killed all the people who tried to get on board and a man snook on board.

Rock Creatures? What? I'm afraid we didn't see that one. So you and your wife actually walked out of the movie? lol!

Back to Enoch. I feel we already gave friendly warning to LearningToLetGo early in the get go. Let him finish and we'll see where this goes.

Bob

 

[YeshuaFan]

God love ya brother but do you understand that you are trying to use Greek mythology to validate your support of the Occultic book of Enoch????

Greek Mythology = gods that controlled all aspects of life, from weather to emotions.

Any Psychologist will tell us that humans create mythological gods to understand the unexplainable when they reject the written Word of God that actually does explain the unexplainable.

Many years ago, Carl Jung even wrote that deities are manifestations of the collective unconscious.

Here is another bombastic thought, what if Satan and/or some of His demons in ancient past actually represent themselves off to mankind as bient "gods of ancient times" basis for the myths like a zeus or hercules?

But isnt that exactly what happened?????

I am blessed that you brought this up as it allow me to say that the Bible teaches that Satan is also identical to Zeus.

Jesus says in Matthew 12:26-27......
“And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out?” According to the Word of God.... Satan is identical to Beelzebul, i.e. Baal in this passage.

Again, the Bible teaches that Satan is also identical to Zeus.

Jesus tells the church at Pergamum, in Rev. 2:13......
“I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells”.

Actual Archeologists dogmatically maintain that “Satan’s throne” refers to the well-known “Altar of Zeus,” that was taken by the Germans and brought to Berlin. Thus, Satan is Zeus.

If you take the time to compare religions from around the world, all recognize that Baal and Zeus are the same deity via the process known as interpretatio graeca. Both are the storm-lightning god and lord of heaven.

Curiously, Jesus tells us that he saw Satan "fall like lightning from heaven" in Luke 10:18, an apropos description if he is referring to the lightning god.

Of course, Baal is called an elohim in the OT in Jdg 10:6; Jer 7:9.

This parallels Paul calling Satan a “god” in the NT. And obviously, I think everyone knows that Zeus is considered a god by the Greeks and Romans. Therefore, the only biblical conclusion we can infer if we believe that demons, angels, and Satan truly exist is that the Bible calls them elohim and therefore, according to the Bible, the gods do in fact exist. Zeus is real. He is the biblical character known as Satan.

And as Paul Harvy used to say.......That is the rest of the story!

So there could have been then Thor, odin, all of those other various so called gods roaming around the world, what is ironic is that would get laughed away as being mental illness if held to, but same people will just smile and amen "ancient Aliens" as beings who created mankind and will be our coming saviors