Except A Man Be A Churchgoer...

[Musicmaster]

Oops! That title was a slight shift in wording, wasn't it?

My Bible says:

John 3:3, 7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Or how about the Bible's alleged statement that the Lord takes various people to Hell for a tour? No? Yours doesn't say that either? Hmm...

 

[forgiven61]

Church is a very vital part of our Christian walk. for the life of me i fail to find in my Bible stay home you dont need Church. . yes there will always be tares in Church. we can only plant the seed. many in Church are roughly 18 inches from heaven. 18 inches from the head to the heart . a true Christian born again redeemed by the blood of Jesus will not be in Hell

Ephesians 4:11-15​

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King James Version​

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11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

we have so much wind of doctrine by sleight of man.. Many are and will be deceived.

 

[BibleLover]

We have to be careful not to make specific deeds a requisite of salvific assurance. We also must not confuse salvational assurance with permission to be antinomian (a common legalist strawman against genuine assurance).

 

[forgiven61]

We have to be careful not to make specific deeds a requisite of salvific assurance. We also must not confuse salvational assurance with permission to be antinomian (a common legalist strawman against genuine assurance).

say that in English

 

[Major]

We have to be careful not to make specific deeds a requisite of salvific assurance. We also must not confuse salvational assurance with permission to be antinomian (a common legalist strawman against genuine assurance).

Agreed. Excellent comment.

When we (man) take a biblical teaching to an unbiblical conclusion, we always wind up in trouble.

The apostle Paul dealt with this same issue in Rom. 6:1-2........
“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

The most frequent attack on the doctrine of salvation by grace alone is that it encourages sin or as some say, A "License" to sin.

 

[Major]

Oops! That title was a slight shift in wording, wasn't it?

My Bible says:

John 3:3, 7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Or how about the Bible's alleged statement that the Lord takes various people to Hell for a tour? No? Yours doesn't say that either? Hmm...

My 1st thought if you know.......Was this a conversation with someone who said he went to hell and saw church members there?

That would be my 1st RED flag!

When the speaker says that "past, present and future sins is not in the Bible'.........I cringed!!

That is just a completely erroneous statement! ooops 2nd RED flag!

When Jesus died, all of today’s sins were yet future. Jesus did not die only for the sins of people who lived before Him. He died for the sins of the whole world including the sins of those who lived after Him. PAST---PRESENT--FUTURE!

If our future sins are not forgiven, then two things must happen:
1) when we sin in the future, we revert to an unforgiven state, meaning we lose our salvation and must be saved again, and
2) Christ must die again to cover the sins we’ve committed since His last death.

Neither of these scenarios is biblical. We are kept by God, and thus our salvation is secure (John 10:28–30); and Christ died “once for all” (Hebrews 10:10; Hebrews 7:25).

From the cross, Jesus said, “It is finished!” in John 19:30. That means that No other sacrifice would ever be needed. Sin—all sin—had been atoned for. PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE!

 

[forgiven61]

we need more thus saith the Lord youtube videos

 

[bobinfaith]

Church is a very vital part of our Christian walk. for the life of me i fail to find in my Bible stay home you dont need Church. . yes there will always be tares in Church. we can only plant the seed. many in Church are roughly 18 inches from heaven. 18 inches from the head to the heart . a true Christian born again redeemed by the blood of Jesus will not be in Hell Ephesians 4:11-15 King James Version
we have so much wind of doctrine by sleight of man.. Many are and will be deceived.

We have to be careful not to make specific deeds a requisite of salvific assurance. We also must not confuse salvational assurance with permission to be antinomian (a common legalist strawman against genuine assurance).

My 1st thought if you know.......Was this a conversation with someone who said he went to hell and saw church members there? That would be my 1st RED flag! When the speaker says that "past, present and future sins is not in the Bible'.........I cringed!! That is just a completely erroneous statement! ooops 2nd RED flag! When Jesus died, all of today’s sins were yet future. Jesus did not die only for the sins of people who lived before Him. He died for the sins of the whole world including the sins of those who lived after Him. PAST---PRESENT--FUTURE!

Hello Musicmaster;

Its seems you posted this to show how "careful and watchful we as Believers must be" toward other's claims of God assigning them to the supernatural. This is an example how ridiculous this man's claim of going on a tour to hell and then coming back to warn us...in a short clip.

Am I right, or am I missing something to Sid Roth's guest? Who is this guy?

God bless you, brother.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello Musicmaster;

Its seems you posted this to show how "careful and watchful we as Believers must be" toward other's claims of God assigning them to the supernatural. This is an example how ridiculous this man's claim of going on a tour to hell and then coming back to warn us...in a short clip.

Am I right, or am I missing something to Sid Roth's guest? Who is this guy?

God bless you, brother.

Bob, in a manner of speaking, yes.

For years I've heard various people lay claim to having experienced special visitations, special messages, visions of what's about to hit this world...ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Meanwhile, we already have the prophecies of the end times, and so know what's coming without the need to for being told what's already been said in scripture. However, there seems to be this tendency to "spice it all up" with some outlandish nonsense to tickle the ears of their followers, and thus retain their following of blind and indifferent congregations and crusade followers who are forever wanting their warm fuzzie fix.

Blessings to you all.

MM

 

[Baby Finch]

There's a verse that says God is not found in structures built by mortal hands. So I guess that means going to church isn't mandatory.

Then there's that teaching that tells us the Eklesia, the believers, are the actual church of the Christ. At least I think I'm right about that.

I like that idea because I've attended a few churches and it wasn't what I'd think would be a pleasing thing to God.
Bad pastors, hypocrites, perverts. Not a churchy atmosphere to say the least.

 

[Musicmaster]

There's a verse that says God is not found in structures built by mortal hands. So I guess that means going to church isn't mandatory.

Very true. The institutional model is just that....a model that was crated by men. God has used them to His glory and to accomplish His own ends, which can be said of many other things crafted by the hands of men...but, no. Attending and supporting an institutional model somewhere is not mandated by the Lord as a requirement. Gathering with fellow believers is something Paul instructed, but he did not make any demands for any particular model. The one model we see in the NT is the house church model. That model, like any other, is imperfect because it's populated by imperfect people.

Then there's that teaching that tells us the Eklesia, the believers, are the actual church of the Christ. At least I think I'm right about that.

Yes, the Church is people, so when someone asks, "Did you go to church this week," I shrug and say that I can't go to what I am already a part of every moment of every day. If they ask where I gather with other believers, that's when I point to a home where we sit together like a family rather than an audience member in an over-priced luxury of a communal facility.

I like that idea because I've attended a few churches and it wasn't what I'd think would be a pleasing thing to God.
Bad pastors, hypocrites, perverts. Not a churchy atmosphere to say the least.

As Voddie and MacArthur both stated in videos I have posted in various threads, most of modern churchianity is corrupted with the leaven of socially engineered theologies. Most professing believers are so deeply infected by the rudiments of this world that they can't seem to shake it off, even after entering into some special purpose, communal facility, flip on the switches of religion, and engage their programmatic show for their audience, and then give them permission to go out into the world and start just another week all over gain.

Now, granted, there are some pastors in far too low of numbers who have a true heart for discipling other believers, and who therefore seek to raise up spiritual giants in the faith.

I'm in full agreement with Gene Edwards, in that ministers should be about the business of putting themselves out of a job rather than holding the audience in a perpetual state of sheepdom, and thus all those bleating sheep relying on them week after week for 70 years of their lives, "feeding" the sheeple through perpetual sermonizing and having the stake of tithing driven through their hearts to perpetuate ministerial careers and retirements. The Gospel is never something from which we retire. It remains our duty for spreading until we take our last breath. I want the name of the Lord on my lips if I reach the point of my last breath in this life...unless He comes for His Church before I arrive at my last breath.

MM

 

[Major]

Bob, in a manner of speaking, yes.

For years I've heard various people lay claim to having experienced special visitations, special messages, visions of what's about to hit this world...ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Meanwhile, we already have the prophecies of the end times, and so know what's coming without the need to for being told what's already been said in scripture. However, there seems to be this tendency to "spice it all up" with some outlandish nonsense to tickle the ears of their followers, and thus retain their following of blind and indifferent congregations and crusade followers who are forever wanting their warm fuzzie fix.

Blessings to you all.

MM

Yes.....all of those claims were made to sell a book or a movie! The world tends to believe what it wants to believe!

 

[Major]

There's a verse that says God is not found in structures built by mortal hands. So I guess that means going to church isn't mandatory.

Then there's that teaching that tells us the Eklesia, the believers, are the actual church of the Christ. At least I think I'm right about that.

I like that idea because I've attended a few churches and it wasn't what I'd think would be a pleasing thing to God.
Bad pastors, hypocrites, perverts. Not a churchy atmosphere to say the least.

You are correct. So do you think that we should remove Luke 4:16 “He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.” ...from the Bible?

What about Ephesians 4:11-12.......
“So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors, and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.”

Then there is Hebrews 10:24-25......
“And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

What about Psalms 84:10...............
“Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.”

Colossians 3:16 says....
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

Acts 2:42.........
“And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.”

Psalms 122:1....
“I was glad when they said to me, “Let us go into the house of the Lord.”

Now you said....
"I like that idea because I've attended a few churches and it wasn't what I'd think would be a pleasing thing to God.
Bad pastors, hypocrites, perverts. Not a churchy atmosphere to say the least."

YOU are 100% correct!

However, can't that be said of Hospitals????
Police stations?
Doctor's offices?
Colleges?

WHY???/ Because they are all full of people and ALL people are sinners! Church is a hospital for the spirituall sick to go and be encouraged and healed!

 

[forgiven61]

if YOUR looking for the perfect Church and you find it. it wont be after you get there. Church is not for perfect people and some times were just to picky

 

[bobinfaith]

if YOUR looking for the perfect Church and you find it. it wont be after you get there. Church is not for perfect people and some times were just to picky

Hello forgiven;

I meet with more young people and encourage them to keep an open heart for elderly men and women of God. They get hooked only on the Churches with the majority in the 18 to 38 year bracket. Many young Christians feel this is the perfect Church - the pastor may be charismatic and in his 30s, the excitement of the latest and greatest contemporary music, dazzling lighting, sound systems, stage and the sermons whether expository or topical, directed primarily toward youth in today's electronic world.

Hillsong Church was a prime example and was considered the all around perfect Church until the Lord exposed the sins of celebratory leadership. Since 2021 this Church worldwide has declined.

The reaction I get in these Church conversations is, "I had no idea or even conceived this was going on." Don't allow your cell phone to become your best friend or get caught up with false testimonial entertainment on the internet. Nothing beats "live" face to face human Christian fellowship.

Seasoned pastors, this is not my personal opinion but merely the testimonies of many, not all, young Christians in this age bracket who shared with me their reality check.

I encourage young Christians to leave the door open for ministry and testimonies by elderly men and women who have strived for years to walk with Christ despite their blessings, setbacks and the ways of the world.

God bless you, Jerry.

 

[bobinfaith]

The Church needs future pastors. I wanted to share what God is doing in Romania.

"A while ago, after much prayer and consideration, we decided to deal with our lack of pastors by starting to equip local men for ministry. We spread the word among churches and the Lord called more than 30 men willing to start a three year course of theological and pastoral training. We praise God and we pray that this group will be able to complete their studies and then serve the many needy churches. Thank you for praying with us and for investing in such an important spiritual project."

 

[forgiven61]

I encourage young Christians to leave the door open for ministry and testimonies by elderly men and women who have strived for years to walk with Christ despite their blessings, setbacks and the ways of the world.

i went to apply for a different job this evening . ended up witnessing the man said he couldn't find the right church. ..TRUST me the right Church is there for you/me. you have to be willing to seek. i suggested country Church he asked directions to the Church i pastor. i confess my fault's to the congregation and then proceed to tell them they have problems to..

a Church building with people in it. is a hospital and sanctuary. yes it can be a social gathering before and after services if a church congregation was perfect they wouldn't need Jesus .

to much negativity on the Church these day. you bet i am defensive on Church. one can either go to Church to be seen or go to listen

 

[forgiven61]

The Church needs future pastors.

yes they do and by all accounts of reports i hear people in 3rd world country are more hungry and thirsty for the word of God .than the united states.. God bless our missionaries . i know a couple and there 2 young adult Children getting ready for a hurricane in Guam . i messaged them they said we have propane to cook on shelf food gas for the vehicles and Chainsaws praying it goes west

 

[Baby Finch]

You are correct. So do you think that we should remove Luke 4:16 “He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.” ...from the Bible?

What about Ephesians 4:11-12.......
“So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors, and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.”

Then there is Hebrews 10:24-25......
“And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

What about Psalms 84:10...............
“Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.”

Colossians 3:16 says....
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

Acts 2:42.........
“And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.”

Psalms 122:1....
“I was glad when they said to me, “Let us go into the house of the Lord.”

Now you said....
"I like that idea because I've attended a few churches and it wasn't what I'd think would be a pleasing thing to God.
Bad pastors, hypocrites, perverts. Not a churchy atmosphere to say the least."

YOU are 100% correct!

However, can't that be said of Hospitals????
Police stations?
Doctor's offices?
Colleges?

WHY???/ Because they are all full of people and ALL people are sinners! Church is a hospital for the spirituall sick to go and be encouraged and healed!

Jesus was a Jew. His father's house wasn't a Christian church but a synagogue.

Everyone has a unique relationship with the father . If some feel led to a church building for community so be it.

I don't believe God will condemn those who find nature, the outdoors, Bible study groups meeting in different houses throughout the month, worthy of condemnation because we didn't meet in a traditional church.

 

[Major]

Jesus was a Jew. His father's house wasn't a Christian church but a synagogue.

Everyone has a unique relationship with the father . If some feel led to a church building for community so be it.

I don't believe God will condemn those who find nature, the outdoors, Bible study groups meeting in different houses throughout the month, worthy of condemnation because we didn't meet in a traditional church.

Now my dear brother.......did you not think that I was aware of those facts??? Please do not take that as sarcasm. I did not mean it as such.

We can come up with all kinds of reasons to not assemble in a building we call a church! YES........I have a Bible study once a week right here at my home in Fl. It is a neighborhood gathering every Thursday. BUT........that is not a corporate worship service.

The Bible says in Hebrews 10:25........
"Do Not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Are we going to change that Scripture to mean that we can worship God on the Golf Course or the Boat while fishing???

All I am saying is that YES......we can worship God on a boat, or at the beach or on the golf course. But that is NOT what God told us to do.