first ladies
- Thread starter Lanolin
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They all claim to be Christian. There is a lot of iffiness within each one you mentioned. From the relativism and blatant positions against Christianity from Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton to the astrology that Nancy Reagan was into. Laura Bush is a bit of a mystery to me. Most of the criticisms people have toward her is that she is her husband's wife...but that's not really saying much.
One of my favorite presidents is Calvin Coolidge, and I know his wife Grace was actually pretty decent.
I was talking to someone about this not too long ago. I definitely lean toward the conclusion that Vince Foster was murdered.
But even if the Clintons had nothing to do with Vince Foster, they definitely had plenty to do with the millions of aborted children and their constant promotion of it.
I wouldn't say none of the American presidents were Christian. In fact, most of them claimed to be. However, there is scandal behind a lot of them and their theology (depending on who you are of course). For instance, a lot of people believe that Lincoln was (perhaps he was but was at odds with it from time to time), but he blamed the war on God and spoke out against Christianity too, so I suspect he wasn't really.
Eisenhower I believe was. At least, there isn't anything directly that he did that went against Christianity and spoke in favor of his Christian belief.
The forefathers however (Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etc), while many people claim they were, they never claimed it themselves and only counted themselves as deists. Jefferson was a unitarian which is a Christian heresy.
JFK was a Catholic, but only covertly and did many things against the faith. In fact, the Kennedy family are notorious for pushing for policies that go against the faith.
The notion that America is a Christian nation has a lot of surrounding thoughts. One is that it's pertaining to the Christian morality (which in itself is also iffy since so much of it was more fueled by the enlightenment era). Others say it's because it was founded by Christian men, but that too is iffy.
It is still hotly debated whether America is a Christian nation or not. I side with the notion that it isn't. Many who also side with it use it to argue that the US should reject it...i wouldn't go there either.
The other shoe drops.... however people want to rewrite history, the citizenry of the US were largely Christian, along with Jews, who had suffered persecution because of their beliefs. While people want to say Washington and other leaders were freemasons and doing their secret society thing, the citizenry believed they were acting under the Judeo-Christian God. Even today, Christians are still the number one religious influence in America. Growing up, I didn't know any families that didn't attend a church on a fairly regular basis. As for what has happened in America today? I don't think anyone thinks the US is abiding by God's will. Christ's Millenial Kingdom will establish the only Christian nation.
I agree that many US presidents were not really Christians. They had the benefit of adopting morality from a Christian environment, but were not really Christian. However, I do believe Lincoln became a genuine Christian. Wikipedia has an interesting take on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_religion
As far as the US being a Christian nation, it is interesting to observe in Revelation 13:11 the prophecy of the second beast.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Rev 13:11
Every other beast in the prophetic books of scripture come up out of the sea, but this is the only beast that comes up out of the earth. It has two horns like a "lamb" but speaks as a dragon.
If we take these prophetic symbols and let the scripture define them, we get some interesting incite.
Beast = Kingdoms or nations in prophecy (Dan 7:23)
Horns = Kings/Nations or Powers (Dan 7:24)
Lamb = Jesus (John 1:29)
Dragon = Devil/Satan (Rev 12:9)
Earth = is not directly defined anywhere in scripture. But scripture says that every other beast rose up out of the sea and sea is defined in scripture as a multitude of people or nations (Rev 17:15). Therefore, if the sea is a heavily populated area, the earth by contrast must be a sparsely populated area.
So plugging in values into these symbols you have a nation "coming up" out of a sparsely populated area with Christ like characteristics that eventually speaks like the devil. Nations speak by their laws. What nation does that sound like?
Blessings,
MoG
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Great question! Those verses (Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9) are in the context of the 7 churches (Rev 1:20). Therefore, I believe those verses are referring to His followers--not a nation. During the first century, there was no distinction between Jews and Christians in name (1). Also Paul stated that to be truly Jewish was not a temporal thing but was a spiritual endeavor (Rom 2:29). Paul also said that there was to be no distinction between Jews and Gentiles (Rom 10:12, Gal 3:28).
Hence, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not" Rev 3:9, indicates to me a that there is hypocracy is God's church. A people who are professed followers of Jesus in name only in whereby they have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof (2 tim 3:5). Their true fidelity is to the author of sin and not the God of righteousness.
God Bless,
MoG
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Thank you.. Even if Michell was formerly a man, its none of business.. I swear Christians these days wanna focus on everyone and everything else ( government,signs of the times)
Except their walk with Christ, then wonder why they got left behind..
Very true! The purpose of discerning the signs of the times in the first place is to encourage/help our walk with Christ. If we are doing one without the other, we are in trouble.
Blessings,
MoG
The Christianity of American Presidents
is about as good as
The 'God' of the American Dollar
....its all hidden knowledge. By their fruit you shall know them.
is about as good as
The 'God' of the American Dollar
....its all hidden knowledge. By their fruit you shall know them.
I just find it weird..that presidents will say one thing, then do another.
I once dated a guy who said he was achristian because George Bush was. I was likee huh? He wanted to get into politics. He thought christianity was a way and wanted to be all charismatic.
This guy stole money from me.
I dont think true christianity has anything to do with politics.
Its about loving your neighbour, not legislation. There is no law against the fruits of the holy spirit.
I once dated a guy who said he was achristian because George Bush was. I was likee huh? He wanted to get into politics. He thought christianity was a way and wanted to be all charismatic.
This guy stole money from me.
I dont think true christianity has anything to do with politics.
Its about loving your neighbour, not legislation. There is no law against the fruits of the holy spirit.
This scripture came to me. Exodus 20:7 do not take the Lord thy Gods name in vain.
I think I see that a lot esp in americans. Its a very religious country, I found. On the surface. I suppose its the culture..lots of songs say God Bless America. But in my country you dont hear people namedropping God all the time. If we do talk about Him, its not in a presumptuous way.
I think I see that a lot esp in americans. Its a very religious country, I found. On the surface. I suppose its the culture..lots of songs say God Bless America. But in my country you dont hear people namedropping God all the time. If we do talk about Him, its not in a presumptuous way.
Im sorry if any americans were offended by my statements. My intention was to ask those that were from the US to talk about the good things about their first ladies. I find it interesting that you call them that. In nz we dont call the wives of our prime ministers first ladies.
Or if they are female, first gentlemen.
Or if they are female, first gentlemen.