Genesis 3:22
- Thread starter JeremiahD84
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God, being omniscient, always knew sin.... since He knows all of creation from the time of creation and forward into eternity, so He "knew" sin before (in space and time) Lucifer fell, or before mankind fell in the garden..... but God, being perfect, never "knew" sin subjectively, that is, in the sense that God committed sin and knows sin from the perspective of having committed sin. I hope this is what you were asking.... and this has always seemed to be the best explanation to your question....
blessings
smellycat
Account Closed
that could be taken in diffrent ways,so evil in effect could take advantage of true Goodness weaknesses in not knowing how evil works.so God knowing and seeing all would rectify this by learning evil so had no advesary in the end.but by saying in the beginning that they will be like us knowing good and evil suggests this was no suprise.so then logic becomes logically false.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
God does need to learn as He knows all.
the most important point is that God "knows" sin and is yet without sin, morally perfect. To say that God has sinned is the rankest of heresies, directly contradictory to both reason and scripture....
1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
and
"God’s nature is holy
He is perfect Dt 32:4; Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8 See also 2Sa 22:31; Job 6:10; Ps 18:30; 22:3; 71:22; 78:41; Isa 41:14; 43:15; Hab 1:13; Jn 17:11; Rev 6:10
God’s holiness makes sin objectionable to him
Hab 1:13 See also Jos 24:19-20; Jer 50:29" (Thematic Bible)
blessings
1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
and
"God’s nature is holy
He is perfect Dt 32:4; Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8 See also 2Sa 22:31; Job 6:10; Ps 18:30; 22:3; 71:22; 78:41; Isa 41:14; 43:15; Hab 1:13; Jn 17:11; Rev 6:10
God’s holiness makes sin objectionable to him
Hab 1:13 See also Jos 24:19-20; Jer 50:29" (Thematic Bible)
blessings
exactly, therefore when it is said that God comes to know something, the language has to be anthropomorphic, for God is omniscient, obviously, God has always known something about sin. And given God's holiness, its impossible for God to know sin in the way that humans know it, which, unfortunately, we are very very intimately familiar with it. God knows sin as a concept, but does not know it in the sense of subjectively committing it.
blessings
Sylvanus
Inactive
It depends on how you interprete Hebrews 2:10
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
Perfect meaning complete and mature refering to His earth walk- I guess that is my interpetation. Jesus though God walked as any man could to show us the way. He also grew does that mean God needed to grow or just His human container? Just some thoughts. I simply have no trouble in believing God is truly ominsicent. When God asks me a question is it because He doesn't know the answer or because He wants me to discover something about myself or situation. Again it is perhaps how you look at it but as far as I can see the only things God does not know are the things He chooses to forget.AMEN!!!!!!It depends on how you interprete Hebrews 2:10
That was my point. Sorry if I was unclear, I am very busy this week and don't have time to post long, well-thought of responses. My point was that I don't believe God created evil just so He can watch some big battle between good and evil take place. I think God created everything "and it was good". From that, by our own freewill and the freewill of some of the heavenly hosts, evil was created as well. I'm positive God foresaw this evil, but it was a necessity for that freedom of choice to be granted to us.
God deliberately plotted for millennia the death of Christ. Not very clear is it. The question still remains...
...he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
The text says "HE" not "they". There are only three possible "HE's" as far as I can see - if you add the High priest himself - that may work as "he" represents the nation as a kind of religious prime minister.
Just defining a question that has been in my dark and remote closet titled, "Awaiting further light."
God tests us, and does not temp us. We tempt ourselves. And as such the Jews allways broke up the O.T. Kabbalisticaly and such. Isaiah 29:11-12.
So They have theese rules they use for Biblical hebrew, they force upon us: 1) A "Mem," and "Nun" together spells the word "from," 2) A "Mem" can be added as a prefif to the front of a word to add From+Word, and 3) A "Mem" can be doubled Mem+Mem+Word, to sometimes say From+word,
And when I looked at the Hebrew, and ignored their rules, for once, as occasionaly we have to:
I saw it could say:
A) As 1st Mem could say ="As If"
B) 2nd Mem could equal water =will or mind of God,
So it could have meant "The man has become a compound unity as if from the will of Us, knowing good and evil." Or to re-arange the wording "...The man has become a compound unity, knowing good and evil, as if from the will of Us." Which then would leave "Linguistic" room for interpretation such as "Behold, The man has become a divided and compound being, knowing good and evil, as if this were of the will of Us."
thus the root of gnosticism ----which Satan introduced in Eden, ---and to which the rest of the Bible speaks against this universal gnosticism,
So I refuse "Conventionl" interpretations of the verse in this case,
because the non-beliving Jews, thru the Masoretes 1000 years after Christ, and beyond, preserved, and "pointed" their O.T. ---so as to preserve their "Theological take," and we are all as Christians, forced to hold to their theological take on everything in relation to words being defined in the text inspite of Isaiah 29:11-12
Isaiah 29:11-12 "And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying 'Please read this, he will say, 'I cannot, for it is sealed. Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, 'Please read this. And he will say, 'I cannot read."
I am part Jewish, and still do not believe the Masoretes, and Christian Biblical Scholars, who insist on eating all the crumbs from the floor of the Masoretes ---have the right to tell Me, how to interpret everything ----as the Jews who did not accept Christ, have their own agenda!!!!
And I do not have to be the Final Word, on the best way to reinterpret difficult passages ---as I am not in the best position to continue such studdies now. however, alternative do exist ---to some difficult passages. Even though the conventional interpretation which would have God to have knowledge on good and evil ---still would not mean evil was His doing, or fault. But the whole "Become like one of Us," I reject out of hand.
God knows what He has meant by all of His Scriptural passages ---even, when we do not: So, If in doubt, wait until You see God, and can ask, or better yet, not worry about it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So They have theese rules they use for Biblical hebrew, they force upon us: 1) A "Mem," and "Nun" together spells the word "from," 2) A "Mem" can be added as a prefif to the front of a word to add From+Word, and 3) A "Mem" can be doubled Mem+Mem+Word, to sometimes say From+word,
And when I looked at the Hebrew, and ignored their rules, for once, as occasionaly we have to:
I saw it could say:
A) As 1st Mem could say ="As If"
B) 2nd Mem could equal water =will or mind of God,
So it could have meant "The man has become a compound unity as if from the will of Us, knowing good and evil." Or to re-arange the wording "...The man has become a compound unity, knowing good and evil, as if from the will of Us." Which then would leave "Linguistic" room for interpretation such as "Behold, The man has become a divided and compound being, knowing good and evil, as if this were of the will of Us."
thus the root of gnosticism ----which Satan introduced in Eden, ---and to which the rest of the Bible speaks against this universal gnosticism,
So I refuse "Conventionl" interpretations of the verse in this case,
because the non-beliving Jews, thru the Masoretes 1000 years after Christ, and beyond, preserved, and "pointed" their O.T. ---so as to preserve their "Theological take," and we are all as Christians, forced to hold to their theological take on everything in relation to words being defined in the text inspite of Isaiah 29:11-12
Isaiah 29:11-12 "And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying 'Please read this, he will say, 'I cannot, for it is sealed. Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, 'Please read this. And he will say, 'I cannot read."
I am part Jewish, and still do not believe the Masoretes, and Christian Biblical Scholars, who insist on eating all the crumbs from the floor of the Masoretes ---have the right to tell Me, how to interpret everything ----as the Jews who did not accept Christ, have their own agenda!!!!
And I do not have to be the Final Word, on the best way to reinterpret difficult passages ---as I am not in the best position to continue such studdies now. however, alternative do exist ---to some difficult passages. Even though the conventional interpretation which would have God to have knowledge on good and evil ---still would not mean evil was His doing, or fault. But the whole "Become like one of Us," I reject out of hand.
God knows what He has meant by all of His Scriptural passages ---even, when we do not: So, If in doubt, wait until You see God, and can ask, or better yet, not worry about it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My Bible notes suggest the "he" refers to Ciaphas since Pilate was, in effect, authorized to be the instrument by whom Christ was condemned. In some sense, Pilate was an unwitting tool, and therefore less culpable than Ciaphas, who was a witting fool. By extension anyone who rejects Christ after hearing the Word would essentially commit the same sin.
Unless I am missing something, this discusion is on Genesis 3:22 ---and the subsequent "sub points," which answer that question ----and Pilate, etc.., to the extent he is being debated, is a side point, which is distracting from the original question, and debate, ---and thus should be a seperate thread: as the original debate here has:
1) So far it has been established that, God knows evil ---because God is all knowing ---but that does not imply God is evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) How can it imply God is evil, simply because God understands evil?????? And again the same answer is no ---it does not even imply God is evil, if one were to "retort" the 1st objection as not going far enough,
3) I brought up the point, that God so stated in Isaiah 29:11-12, that His word would not be handled propery given the state of the world, which by the way is also reinforced in Amos 8:11-12, etc..,
4) And I in so bringing up that point, I also discussed the possibility that the passage could even read: "The man has become a divided, and even compound being, knowing good and evil, as if from the mind of Us," ----showing for example ---that even though we were created for the "Indwellings" of the Trinity, as man was intended to be God's temple of obedience to God ( thru the Intended Indwellings of God ), and not man's own temple of himslef!!!!! And the mind, heart, and soul ---(also centered at the heart): were meant for the indwellings of the Trinity ----which satan corrupted, by creating gnosticism, which is the warfare of mind, heart, and soul ---between themselves ---as well as the war of the sexes, as men and women each believe in gnostic coruption, that they are their own gods and goddesses ---and are the pure form of their pseudo-god's creation, needing to convert the other, etc.., ---and thus in the sin of the garden of eden, satan introduced the sin of trying to divide mankind into complex "compound unities," ---if we so "take the bait," ---to cause a complex "fight" from that point foward within us ---so as to perpetuate many stages of seperation, in which the lost fight against God, and continue to do so, in their ongoing rebelion ----all while God is still reaching out to them ----and is reflected in the progression of man's "art" ---thru to, and including movies with heavy metaphysical themes, and rock, when it does the same, etc.., etc.., etc.., and
5) Even if I were wrong, and thus by showing "possibilities," were still somehow incorrect in My conclusions ---My point now is that this debate is becoming sidetracked, from it's original questions on Genesis 3:22.
1) So far it has been established that, God knows evil ---because God is all knowing ---but that does not imply God is evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) How can it imply God is evil, simply because God understands evil?????? And again the same answer is no ---it does not even imply God is evil, if one were to "retort" the 1st objection as not going far enough,
3) I brought up the point, that God so stated in Isaiah 29:11-12, that His word would not be handled propery given the state of the world, which by the way is also reinforced in Amos 8:11-12, etc..,
4) And I in so bringing up that point, I also discussed the possibility that the passage could even read: "The man has become a divided, and even compound being, knowing good and evil, as if from the mind of Us," ----showing for example ---that even though we were created for the "Indwellings" of the Trinity, as man was intended to be God's temple of obedience to God ( thru the Intended Indwellings of God ), and not man's own temple of himslef!!!!! And the mind, heart, and soul ---(also centered at the heart): were meant for the indwellings of the Trinity ----which satan corrupted, by creating gnosticism, which is the warfare of mind, heart, and soul ---between themselves ---as well as the war of the sexes, as men and women each believe in gnostic coruption, that they are their own gods and goddesses ---and are the pure form of their pseudo-god's creation, needing to convert the other, etc.., ---and thus in the sin of the garden of eden, satan introduced the sin of trying to divide mankind into complex "compound unities," ---if we so "take the bait," ---to cause a complex "fight" from that point foward within us ---so as to perpetuate many stages of seperation, in which the lost fight against God, and continue to do so, in their ongoing rebelion ----all while God is still reaching out to them ----and is reflected in the progression of man's "art" ---thru to, and including movies with heavy metaphysical themes, and rock, when it does the same, etc.., etc.., etc.., and
5) Even if I were wrong, and thus by showing "possibilities," were still somehow incorrect in My conclusions ---My point now is that this debate is becoming sidetracked, from it's original questions on Genesis 3:22.