Genesis Clues

[calvin]

The issue is, do you believe God's account in His Word (He was there), or science(they weren't there)?
I believe God and as such interpret everything within that context.

Think Sherlock Holmes.

Stan believes God....But it seems only if He agrees with what is written in "Gesenius's Lexicon" ref O/P. sad,sad,sad
Stan posts

Hence God created the sun right after he created the earth, still on day one.

still on day one....yeah, really? However the Word of God says:

Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,
Gen 1:15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

So the Word of God, says that it was on day 4 that the Sun, Moon and Stars were made.
The Hebrew word for light as a common noun used in Gen 1:3,15,17,18. is designated by Strong's number H216.
The Hebrew word for Lights as a proper noun used in Gen 1:14,15,16. is designated by Strong's number H3974.
The Septuagint (ie the Greek) also differentiates between the two noun types.
Why such error is being posted.....causa latet, vis est notissima "The cause is hidden, but the result is well known"
Stan, the Word of God says that He made the greater and lesser lights on day 4...not on day one as you falsely state.

 

[Stan]

Genesis chapter 4
"13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive (who was he hiding from if there weren't other people?) and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. (Other people+ death penalty for murder = a legal system, this was a sophisticated society.)
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. (Other people)
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD (meaning they were pagans), and dwelt in the land of Nod (this was the Kenite tribe - Jewish Encyclopaedia) on the east of Eden. The father-in-law of Moses was from this tribe, but that was much later.
17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. (Cain had a wife who wasn't his mother, they were building walled cities which is dating evidence, cities were built for people and walled cities were built for defence against other people and other nations.)
18And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. (They were tent dwellers, our ancestors were cave dwellers and they were farmers rather than their ancestors who were hunter gatherers. Cain was a farmer and Able was a shepherd)
21And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. (Early man did not have sophisticated musical instruments, neither could they make fire.)
22And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah. (Brass and iron, early man used stone tools, this is the bronze age.)
.

Sorry but you taking a history lesson that happened over thousands of years, and turning it into something that happened over several generations. Jabal was the ANCESTOR of tent dwellers. Jubal was the PROGENITOR of the musicians. Like I said, this was written by Moses and covered thousands of years. Editorial notes by Moses doesn't mean this ALL happened in the span of a generation or two. Adam and Eve didn't only have sex at the times noted here. I'm pretty sure they took God seriously in regards to multiplying and filling the earth with children.
Like rabbits I would think is very likely. Where do you find that Cain and Abel were the FIRST children of Adam and Eve?

Like many history books, this one does not give ALL the details, but does hit the highlights.

 

[1an]

Sorry but you taking a history lesson that happened over thousands of years, and turning it into something that happened over several generations. Jabal was the ANCESTOR of tent dwellers. Jubal was the PROGENITOR of the musicians. Like I said, this was written by Moses and covered thousands of years. Editorial notes by Moses doesn't mean this ALL happened in the span of a generation or two. Adam and Eve didn't only have sex at the times noted here. I'm pretty sure they took God seriously in regards to multiplying and filling the earth with children.
Like rabbits I would think is very likely. Where do you find that Cain and Abel were the FIRST children of Adam and Eve?

Like many history books, this one does not give ALL the details, but does hit the highlights.

Adam and Eve were living in the bronze age, there is the Neolithic, the Iron Age, the Stone Age and people were living in the Ice Age, there were several of those, and of course the first man didn't have a name, in the Hebrew, 'man' is aw-dawm' (H120) and it got translated as Adam and this is what has caused us all to get it wrong.

By the time of the Bronze Age and the Adam and Eve we are thinking of, people had migrated all over the world and Australia with its dark skinned (ruddy) aborigines was one of the first places to be populated would you believe. It sounds incredible I know, the Chinese civilisation is one of the oldest as well, going back long before Adam and Eve of Biblical fame.

I suggest you sleep on it.
.

 

[calvin]

It's a worry.
Gen 5:5 "Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died."
'Adam' can just mean 'man' but not exclusively so. There was also a town called Adam; Jos_3:16 the waters coming down from above stood and rose up in a heap very far away, at Adam, the city that is beside Zarethan, and those flowing down toward the Sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, were completely cut off. And the people passed over opposite Jericho.

If Adam (man) died after 930 years, what are we....aftershocks?
Context must be allowed to govern.

 

[1an]

It's a worry.
Gen 5:5 "Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died."
'Adam' can just mean 'man' but not exclusively so. There was also a town called Adam; Jos_3:16 the waters coming down from above stood and rose up in a heap very far away, at Adam, the city that is beside Zarethan, and those flowing down toward the Sea of the Arabah, the Salt Sea, were completely cut off. And the people passed over opposite Jericho.

If Adam (man) died after 930 years, what are we....aftershocks?
Context must be allowed to govern.

Hello Calvin. From memory Man only began to write about 5000 years ago, before then it was cave paintings. Neolithic men probably only communicated in grunts and were nothing like as advanced as the parents of Cain and Able and the Chinese time-line goes back 400 thousand years to Peking Man of Zhoukoudian. I am afraid the "Young Earth" is a very old man. Compared to all this our Adam and Eve are comparatively recent and I suppose they could be described as 'aftershocks' like us. The Bible is about the history of one nation, it doesn't cover the history of the whole world and this is where we go wrong when it comes to a worldwide context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Chinese_history

 

[Stan]

Adam and Eve were living in the bronze age, there is the Neolithic, the Iron Age, the Stone Age and people were living in the Ice Age, there were several of those, and of course the first man didn't have a name, in the Hebrew, 'man' is aw-dawm' (H120) and it got translated as Adam and this is what has caused us all to get it wrong.

By the time of the Bronze Age and the Adam and Eve we are thinking of, people had migrated all over the world and Australia with its dark skinned (ruddy) aborigines was one of the first places to be populated would you believe. It sounds incredible I know, the Chinese civilisation is one of the oldest as well, going back long before Adam and Eve of Biblical fame.

I suggest you sleep on it.

Sorry but you seem to be more than ready to try to fit the Bible into your acceptance of civilization as you know it than to fit civilization into the Bible as we know it. Anthropologists worldwide do NOT agree on the age of mankind itself and there are way to many holes in our current way of measuring times and fossils to have it be very reliable.
Ten years ago we were told they had found a common EVE which has been highly disputed and then we were told they had found a common Adam that only dated back 188,000 years.
Even the so-called science of dating is suspect for many reasons.
I personally have no problem at all with Genesis being an accurate account of God's creation. Man however seems to have a hard time with it or even with establishing what happened outside of the Genesis context.
Speculation runs rampant but must always be tempered with what God's Word says and what I believe.

 

[1an]

Sorry but you seem to be more than ready to try to fit the Bible into your acceptance of civilization as you know it than to fit civilization into the Bible as we know it. Anthropologists worldwide do NOT agree on the age of mankind itself and there are way to many holes in our current way of measuring times and fossils to have it be very reliable.
Ten years ago we were told they had found a common EVE which has been highly disputed and then we were told they had found a common Adam that only dated back 188,000 years.
Even the so-called science of dating is suspect for many reasons.
I personally have no problem at all with Genesis being an accurate account of God's creation. Man however seems to have a hard time with it or even with establishing what happened outside of the Genesis context.
Speculation runs rampant but must always be tempered with what God's Word says and what I believe.

I will finish with this Stan because there is no point in going round and round the houses for evermore, but just to say the Bible tells us clearly in Genesis chapter four when Adam and Eve were living and Bishop Usher, good man that he was got it exactly right, but I don't remember him giving a date for the formation of the earth?

Now I am interested in medieval history from about the Norman Conquest up until the Peasants Revolt of 1381 and I do a lot of writing covering that 300 year period and here I am writing about Creation. Now if all my papers were put together in a book it would begin with creation and continue into the Norman Conquest and anyone reading it could be forgiven for thinking the Norman Conquest followed on after the Creation of the earth, but you and I know there was a big interval in which a lot of things happened between Creation and William the Conqueror who the history books call William I. and all our English kings are numbered from 1066 onwards as if there never were any kings before him. So it is with the Bible and in a similar manner, before the history books were written, there is a big blank interval between the creation of the earth and Eve giving birth to Cain and her other children in the period we know as pre-history, before man could even write.

Nobody is trying to fit anything into anything, the Bible tells it just like it was and it is us who jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that the Adam and Eve of chapter four were having their family and farming the land on day six of the first week or perhaps day one of the following week after the formation of the earth. Let me say this as clearly as I can, the Bible is never wrong but due to our human fallibility, we often are and I think we need to accept this.

.

 

[Stan]

I will finish with this Stan because there is no point in going round and round the houses for evermore, but just to say the Bible tells us clearly in Genesis chapter four when Adam and Eve were living and Bishop Usher, good man that he was got it exactly right, but I don't remember him giving a date for the formation of the earth?

Now I am interested in medieval history from about the Norman Conquest up until the Peasants Revolt of 1381 and I do a lot of writing covering that 300 year period and here I am writing about Creation. Now if all my papers were put together in a book it would begin with creation and continue into the Norman Conquest and anyone reading it could be forgiven for thinking the Norman Conquest followed on after the Creation of the earth, but you and I know there was a big interval in which a lot of things happened between Creation and William the Conqueror who the history books call William I. and all our English kings are numbered from 1066 onwards as if there never were any kings before him. So it is with the Bible and in a similar manner, before the history books were written, there is a big blank interval between the creation of the earth and Eve giving birth to Cain and her other children in the period we know as pre-history, before man could even write.

Nobody is trying to fit anything into anything, the Bible tells it just like it was and it is us who jump to the wrong conclusion and assume that the Adam and Eve of chapter four were having their family and farming the land on day six of the first week or perhaps day one of the following week after the formation of the earth. Let me say this as clearly as I can, the Bible is never wrong but due to our human fallibility, we often are and I think we need to accept this.

.

I totally agree with your last paragraph. Genesis 4 is not a day by day accounting of Adam and Eve's life. As a matter of fact 800 years pass between Gen 5:3 and 5:5 which ends with Adam's obit. The Bible may be accurate, but it is definitely not all inclusive as far as historical facts are concerned. Thus the reason why I posted this OP. From what we can see, we believe what God has depicted in it.
Thanks for the input.

 

[1an]

Cheers Stan and God bless.