HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
Paul was chosen by Jesus as were the original 12.
Giving God Ultimatums
- Thread starter Where is the Messiah
- Start date
You catch more honey with flies than vinegar...
All prayers are answered. Sometime YES sometimes NO sometimes WAIT (aka silence). I don't think asking for a sign is bad, Gideon did, but living off of them only shows immaturity in Christ. As far as setting a deadline, it depends on the circumstances and humility. If you're under a time crunch, you can ASK for a speedy answer, but to DEMAND will only get the prayer ignored in my opinion. At the same time the thought of the widow at the door comes to mind, Luke 18. But let's look at this:
Luke 11:9 (KJV)
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
"Shall" is an imperative, so I don't see much in the way of conditions.
Luke 11:13 (KJV)
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Hebrews 4:16 (KJV)
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Here boldly is:
- Original: παρῥησία
- Transliteration: Parrhesia
- Phonetic: par-rhay-see'-ah
- Definition:
1. freedom in speaking, unreservedness in speech
a. openly, frankly, i.e without concealment
b. without ambiguity or circumlocution
c. without the use of figures and comparisons
2. free and fearless confidence, cheerful courage, boldness, assurance b. without ambiguity or circumlocution
c. without the use of figures and comparisons
3. the deportment by which one becomes conspicuous or secures publicity
Matthew 11:12 (KJV)
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Luke 16:16 (KJV)
The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
What an interesting couple of verses. They stand out of the context that surrounded them. So I wonder:
Storm the gates of heaven...
Hey tropicalbound, thought I might add to your thoughts in that yes Paul was the 12th Apostle (12 Apostles of the Lamb). Matthias was chosen by men before the true ordination process was revealed however, Paul was called by Christ himself. 3 types of Apostles (Greek Ap-os-tol-os) in the word.....
1 The Apostle of God, Jesus Christ - FATHER
2 The Apostles of the Lamb - THE SON
3 The Apostles of the Holy Spirit - HOLY SPIRIT
Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
Hope this helps....
Hi, I think it all depends about attitude rather than an ultimatum as such as God does want us to seek him. Remember the Golden Fleece? We can on occassion I beleive, especially when it's something really important, to not test God but test the spirits....
If our heart is not condemning us then we have confidence in God to ask anything from him if it is according to his will. 1 John 5:14
According to his will I think is the key to receiving answered prayer. We first have to know what the will of the Lord first before we ask, or we are not going to receive anything. The Lord by his Spirit has already shown us all things that he has prepared for them that love him. If we are not seeing these things maybe we need to ask the Lord to show us again. This scripture is one of the most quoted scriptures in the Bible, but very rarely is the next verse quoted with it.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Asking for something the Lord has already given you is a surety of you getting it!!! Faith has nothing to do with you getting something in the future, it is believing what you already have, because God has already given it to you.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
We gain what we already have through the knowledge of God who shows it to us. You can not experience something you don't know you already have. Even our salvation was not gained and or experienced until we found out what God had already done for us through his son.
According to his will I think is the key to receiving answered prayer. We first have to know what the will of the Lord first before we ask, or we are not going to receive anything. The Lord by his Spirit has already shown us all things that he has prepared for them that love him. If we are not seeing these things maybe we need to ask the Lord to show us again. This scripture is one of the most quoted scriptures in the Bible, but very rarely is the next verse quoted with it.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Asking for something the Lord has already given you is a surety of you getting it!!! Faith has nothing to do with you getting something in the future, it is believing what you already have, because God has already given it to you.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
We gain what we already have through the knowledge of God who shows it to us. You can not experience something you don't know you already have. Even our salvation was not gained and or experienced until we found out what God had already done for us through his son.
Correct. I believe the scripture talks about being bold with our prayer and not doubting, hence the ultimatum would remove doubt and also create boldness.
People will say prayer and if its not answered after a period of time they start to wonder and doubt if God is going to answer.the ultimatum would remove doubt.
An unanswered prayer is the same as God saying no in my opinion. And if the prayer we have to ask why. The bible gives clear reasons why god doesn't answer prayers. To sum it up, it's usually because wrong motives or doubt. Other then that we should expect the answer to be yes all the time. Unless God gives a clear reason why he says no. Example being when Paul got a no
And I believe Paul didn't wait too long. It said he pleaded 3 times. So the first time he prayed, then probably thought hey where's my answer, so he prayed again, no answer then he prayed third time and god finally told him why
Good!
2 Corinthians 1:20 (NLT)
20 For all of God’s promises have been fulfilled in Christ with a resounding “Yes!” And through Christ, our “Amen” (which means “Yes”) ascends to God for his glory.
The Lord has already given us every thing we need to accomplish our mission here on earth. The problem is we don't know what it is he has given us. We can not ask in faith believing until we know what they are. All the promises of God are yes, and amen.
Yes I agree, the main reason for unanswered prayer is if we are asking to 'consume it upon our own lusts' (James) but i think we just need to trust he knows best however, I believe as we grow God far more wants us to trust the guidence of the spirit from within and I'd say don't worry, he'll open the door or close them. The worst problem is no action at all.
I'm reminded of Paul when he so wanted to go to a certain place recorded in the book of Acts and he said the Spirit constrained him, so he had all the enthusiasm but God stepped in. Sometimes i think we worry too much but I think as always, God is helping us grow to trust his impressions upon our heart and step out in faith...hope this is helpful...
Depends on who's offering it, and I have to question why are they trying to give me a free car. Whats the catch? If it's some crackhead, I'm going to assume the car is stolen. If it's some mafia guy, he will probably want a favor later on that could cost me more then the car. If it's my dad, "Thanks Dad for the car! Bye bye!"
Well, it,s like this son, you need a car so you can go back and forth to work, which I also gave you. Your job will provide money so you can buy food, and clothing, and shelter, which I also provided. If you are lacking in Wisdom to complete what I have called to do, ask me for some of that to, and I will over load you with exceeding abundantly more Wisdom than you could possibly ever ask of think. Then you will praise me for ever.
An ant giving the Creator of all an ultimatum..............
. Its not bad! Its madness. Kind of like swimming out to greet a tsunami.Fortunately for us, God is as humble as He is great. He swallows the disrespect and may still consider jumping through a hoop for us despite our stupidity.
Excellent point my friend.
You are correct my brother.
Luke 4:12
And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Amen. To be an apostle one had to be present with the Lord Jesus. This is why there can be no apostles today!!!
1 Corth. 9:1.....
"Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?"
Apostles were to bear witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. In order to do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected.
Luke 24:46-48 ESV
"And Jesus said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things."
Rav....I like your thinking!
When looking for someone to replace Judas, the one chosen had to be a witness unto the resurrection.
Acts 1:22 says.........
"Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."
You would be correct! IMO.
Matthias was not a mistake....
The ministry of the 12 was to the Jews first.... Primarily to "The Lost Sheep" of Israel...
12 apostles, 12 tribes....
Jerusalem first, then Judea, then the rest of the world... but primarily to the lost of Israel....
They also picked up many Gentile proselytes... but their primary focus was Israelites....
Paul's ministry was to the Pagan Gentiles... and if you notice - Paul did not get converted until AFTER the Jewish Leadership (Temple leadership + Sanhedrin) in Jerusalem had formally rejected Jesus personally - then rejected the teaching of the Apostles several times and started killing the Apostles/disciples..... You will also notice that nearly 100% of Paul's efforts to Jews were disastrous....
If you read Acts 15 - it kinda clears this up... Paul was chosen by God NOT to seek out the Lost Sheep of Israel, but to to take out of the Nations a people for the Lord.... If you read through Amos 9 in the Septuagint - you will see the quote referenced in Acts is quite clear...
So... there were 2 separate things going on....
Preaching the Gospel to the "Lost sheep of Israel"
Taking out of the Nations a people for the Lord....
Unfortunately, as a church, we frequently don't make this distinction - and it causes trouble.....
and it's kinda interesting that when you look at ministries - they tend to be either Jew focused, OR Gentile focused... The interesting part I have noticed is that they are generally not effective at both...
The ministry of the 12 was to the Jews first.... Primarily to "The Lost Sheep" of Israel...
12 apostles, 12 tribes....
Jerusalem first, then Judea, then the rest of the world... but primarily to the lost of Israel....
They also picked up many Gentile proselytes... but their primary focus was Israelites....
Paul's ministry was to the Pagan Gentiles... and if you notice - Paul did not get converted until AFTER the Jewish Leadership (Temple leadership + Sanhedrin) in Jerusalem had formally rejected Jesus personally - then rejected the teaching of the Apostles several times and started killing the Apostles/disciples..... You will also notice that nearly 100% of Paul's efforts to Jews were disastrous....
If you read Acts 15 - it kinda clears this up... Paul was chosen by God NOT to seek out the Lost Sheep of Israel, but to to take out of the Nations a people for the Lord.... If you read through Amos 9 in the Septuagint - you will see the quote referenced in Acts is quite clear...
So... there were 2 separate things going on....
Preaching the Gospel to the "Lost sheep of Israel"
Taking out of the Nations a people for the Lord....
Unfortunately, as a church, we frequently don't make this distinction - and it causes trouble.....
and it's kinda interesting that when you look at ministries - they tend to be either Jew focused, OR Gentile focused... The interesting part I have noticed is that they are generally not effective at both...
Is not Jesus today still giving apostles to the Church?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
How long will the giving of Apostles continue?
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God.....
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
How long will the giving of Apostles continue?
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God.....