God’s will cannot be stopped!

WordOFaith said:
Wow!! What a great forum!!

To Help out Let me give some useful things without a long bible study.

1: God's Will is subject to TWO things.
A) What is Written in the Word and can not be changed.
B) Individual lives that can be changed.

John_Jervis is correct.

In fact, Jesus asked if He would find faith on earth. That faith is subject to taking Heed what we hear and obeying the plan of God in our lives. God has a plan for everyone and there are no replacement parts to get the plan done.
Take Jesus for example, He ask for God to take the cup from him and walk away from the cross. No other man could ever take that position so the request for that prayer was denied. Jesus knew God's will anyway, and if there was another way he was all ears. The scriptures say Jesus was Obedient unto death. That means he had a choice and had he walked away or called a whole bunch of angels to save him then you and I would be in big trouble and this World lost.

God needs us to bring the Gospel to the nations. We have a body and legal right to operate on this earth. Satan came another way and is a thief. He has no legal body. Everything God does is though man speaking the Word. He confirms that Word with signs following. We have a choice to obey or not obey. Disobedience not only hurts us, but those the Word could have effected.

1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. (ASV)

It is the Will of God that all be saved. Is everyone going to be saved? NO, even though it's his divine will.

Being Healed, prosperity, sharing the Word is not up to God. We have a roll to play and God will do his part if we step up in the power and Glory of the Lord with all authority and boldness doing our part.

Be blessed everyone.
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Thank you very much for that answer and welcome to the forum . We would like to encourage you to stop by the New Members section and tell us a little about yourself and welcome you properly . God Bless.

http://www.christianforumsite.com/new-members-welcome-area-21/
 
Banarenth said:
Going to (hopefully) carefully and respectfully express my own opinion here.

I have often heard the argument that if a person leaves Christ for the world, and turns his back on Him, then he was never truly saved. Yet, the same who say this, usually always state that the only requirement for salvation is to say the sinner's prayer and mean it. These two statements (while simplified) are impossibly contradictory.

I have no doubt that there are some who pray for forgiveness and ask to receive Christ as their personal savior, are doing it for alternative reasons and are therefore not really saved. But, we cannot judge a man's intent. It's a cop-out statement IMO. I've known many people who sincerely came to the cross, and prayed for forgiveness, and then later were drawn away for various reasons. Nobody has a right to say they never meant it, because I promise you, they did. But, men's hearts change. We grow hard and cold under pressure. When they leave...will they return?

The Bible says that we are to repent. It also states that we are to continue to the end. It's very important to understand what repentance means. I think, we've simplified it too much because of our traditions. Salvation is much more than a single prayer of conviction. It is a life of servitude to a better master than the world offers us. Because, in the end, we are not judged in every moment by moment. God knows when we will die, and at THAT time, our lives will be judged. Complete. A prodigal son can return home. Has nobody ever lost faith? Has a child never run from home and returned?
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God Bless you brother Ban . Those are my views as well . I was not going to express those but you did it for me . I know this topic can spark as lot of contraversy .

We cannot and will never be the final judge of who is and who is not and who comes and who does not . At this pont in my life I just want to serve Him to the best of my ability and what ever people say is immaterial . I just want what Gods says and for Him in the end to say " Well done thou good and faithful servant . "

The life we live for Him is what counts . There is also a saying .... " Only one life will soon be passed . Only what is done for Christ will last "
 
Banarenth and Dusty


Thats a touchy view and I myself was not going to bring that up.

The condition is not just getting up and confessing sin then going to church every Sunday. It was also confessing Jesus as Lord. (Rom 10:9) The Lord spoke to me about this very thing a few years back. Many that claim to be saved never actually made Him Lord of everything in their life. Jesus was NEVER Lord to them in their actions and the big test is Money and possessions. The Word is not first place in their life, but the World.
Is this salvation by Works? God forbid, but with a heart toward God should not the Works follow?

We are not the judge and should not judge but many will be surprised at the end if you believe in Rapture, Judgment or both. (End of being on earth)

Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Be Blessed everyone.
 
I do not disagree to the least with what you just said. Jesus MUST be Lord. However, the prayer that so many are taught, and what they are told, is not sufficient to make that happen. It's a true surrender of our will. But...this is not what sinners are told. I DO hear this often, but only AFTER we are believers. This is not what is taught in most churches to sinners, and that is the problem I see.

My issue is with the two sides of the statement. We first make it easy to be saved, and then we say that if you fall away, then you were never saved to begin with. THAT is the crux of the confusion.

PS: As a moderator, I may have to bow out of this very soon. We're getting dangerously close to doctrinal debate here...
 
Banarenth said:
I do not disagree to the least with what you just said. Jesus MUST be Lord. However, the prayer that so many are taught, and what they are told, is not sufficient to make that happen. It's a true surrender of our will. But...this is not what sinners are told. I DO hear this often, but only AFTER we are believers. This is not what is taught in most churches to sinners, and that is the problem I see.

My issue is with the two sides of the statement. We first make it easy to be saved, and then we say that if you fall away, then you were never saved to begin with. THAT is the crux of the confusion.

PS: As a moderator, I may have to bow out of this very soon. We're getting dangerously close to doctrinal debate here...
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I totally agree and now that you have seen the problem in churches and you are an up and coming Pastor ... this is all good experience for you and I fully expect a different delivery when you become as REV .... He he ....:D:D:p:p Let me know where you will be and I will come and sit in your church ....:):):)
 
Conclusion then?

Banarenth............ Then the answer and verdict?


My issue is with the two sides of the statement. We first make it easy to be saved, and then we say that if you fall away, then you were never saved to begin with. THAT is the crux of the confusion.
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Should it not be easy to make Jesus Lord? Or do we have an assembly line approach to this and off the sheep go without guidance. If they mess up then something went wrong on the Assembly line.

I was thinking about this very thing after I posted and ran a errand.

Does the person being saved really know what it means to make Jesus Lord and that being a doer of the Word is all most important?

The Scriptures put lots of importance of WHO you follow after. 86 hits on the Word follow in the KJV.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.


I have not prayed about this or studied it, but on the glance it would seem the issue is with.

Rebellion: Not willing to submit or follow anyone. Not willing to be taught.

Leadership: Can't follow someone that claims God is Mysterious as they don't even know God themselves. Not having faith or understand what it means to be a Christian.


SO.............. Banarenth

Is this a Church Issue or someone that went though the steps to be "Born Again." What about the Work of the Holy Ghost (If his power and anointing is taught at that church.)

I don't know........... Who is to blame? We certainly have a World full of non faithful people that can not believe much in the Word of God, calling themselves Christians.

I have very little insight on this at this time.

Be blessed out of measure!!!
 
IMO, it's a "church" issue involving poor education. Two sides in agreement, but wording things so differently that they argue about it. I see issues with both sides, not because of improper doctrine, but because of the way the doctrine gets filtered down.

On that note, however, I am officially bowing out of this thread due to the increasingly potential conflicts with my duties as a moderator.
 
Is this a Church Issue or someone that went though the steps to be "Born Again." What about the Work of the Holy Ghost (If his power and anointing is taught at that church.)

I don't know........... Who is to blame? We certainly have a World full of non faithful people that can not believe much in the Word of God, calling themselves Christians.

I have very little insight on this at this time.

Be blessed out of measure!!!
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I would have to say that it is the product of both . .... I believe it is the church's responsibility to give the person material and follow up and that is why we have the New beginners Course or ' Alpha " program as it is called . There, new Christians are put with other new Christians and are mentored and given instructions. They are also followed up by visitors from church who come to their home for encouragement and prayer . They are also encouraged to join cell groups ( or Bible Study groups ) that are in home settings and the people get to know others and study together. From our church we have 60 cell groups .

And of course it also depends on the person , how and what they choose to do with their salvation . Do they just want to say they are saved of do they have a deep desire to get into the Word and follow our Lord .?
 
Dusty:

And of course it also depends on the person , how and what they choose to do with their salvation . Do they just want to say they are saved of do they have a deep desire to get into the Word and follow our Lord .?
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It all makes sense and I suppose it will have to be good enough for now. What makes a person "Know" they are suppose to have that desire to get in the Word. This is getting deep and not sure what Questions to ask, I suppose wanting one point to put blame on is not going to work here.

Great post, I have learned some things, though it will still be on my mind. I have to step out of this one also.

God Bless.......
 
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