Greater Meteorological Event?

[Prim90]

Hello Prim90;

I gave your short post some extra thought and have a question. How do we reconcile the sun and moon not created until day 4, thus the earth not moving. How does that align with Joshua 10:13-14?

13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. 14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel. - KJV

I don't see the connection.

God bless you, sister, and thank you.

Bob I hope you well . The connection and misunderstanding being in that we all have been educated into a heliocentric belief system. Very few escape its influence. So when viewing verses like Joshua 10: 13-14 it becomes problematic when we are confronted by a moving sun as with many other passages in scripture which is direct opposition to heliocentricity, which has led to many colourful and alternative interpretations. The reason why I mentioned Genesis chapter1 is to show clearly that the earth was never moving around the sun because the sun wasn’t created until the 4tth day. The earth was already created prior to the sun, planets and even the stars . The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun I did read much discussion of how Joshua would have viewed the sun . It is clear in almost every ancient culture how people viewed the sun. They viewed the sun as moving, Rising and Setting everyday.. And finally I think we must all take a few steps back and think deeply upon this. Do the theories and claims of the scientific world dictate in how we are to interpret the Bible of which the scientific community challenges the validity of the Bible in so many ways. Unto whom do we place our trust as final authority. The scientific world of forever changing theories or do we fully trust the holy word that God has given us. Bob what be our final authority when your confronted with such issues I guess it be a question we all must ask ourselves. The Bible be a very geocentric book . That we do know.. I probably not reply here to further questions out of respect for the Crossnote. He did say what I was writing about in previous posts was entirely another topic.The reason for the late reply when thinking upon the questions you asked . I’ll try and abide by his wishes after this post . Prim

 

[Major]

I was hoping we wouldn’t go in this direction but if you insist, remember motion is relative to a fixed point, thus…

thus the sun does move. (Methinks the universe is bigger than us)

Sun: Facts - NASA Science

From our vantage point on Earth, the Sun may appear like an unchanging source of light and heat in the sky. But the Sun is a dynamic star, constantly changing and sending energy out into space. The science of studying the Sun and its influence throughout the solar system is called heliophysics...

science.nasa.gov

All of that is true. However.......that opens the door to other things!

Since you posted......" it takes about 230 million years for the Sun to make one complete trip around the Milky Way."

That right there indicates an OLD EARTH to me. Then of course that has actually nothing to do with the day or night in Scriptures! The earth moves around the sun which gives day and night and the 230 million years does not apply!

 

[Major]

Hello Major;

When God spoke directly to Joshua I know he understood God in Joshua 10:12-13, but "his thoughts" about the sun moving around the earth, I don't know, brother.

If the sun and moon literally sat still, could the earth have continued to move the length of a whole day? I don't believe so, but again, I don't know for sure. I will say whether the earth did or didn't move God still defeated Israel's enemy.

Joshua 10:12-13, 12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. - KJV

God bless you, brother.

All I am saying is that since the Sun does not move, then we have to consider an alternate option!

5000 years ago, I think that an extention of the day to Joshua meant that he had more time to win the battle and the ramifications of whether the Sun stopped moving or the earth never entered his thoughts.

But that is just me. I as you said have no idea.

 

[Major]

Bob I hope you well . The connection and misunderstanding being in that we all have been educated into a heliocentric belief system. Very few escape its influence. So when viewing verses like Joshua 10: 13-14 it becomes problematic when we are confronted by a moving sun as with many other passages in scripture which is direct opposition to heliocentricity, which has led to many colourful and alternative interpretations. View attachment 10444The reason why I mentioned Genesis chapter1 is to show clearly that the earth was never moving around the sun because the sun wasn’t created until the 4tth day. The earth was already created prior to the sun, planets and even the stars . The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun View attachment 10444 I did read much discussion of how Joshua would have viewed the sun . It is clear in almost every ancient culture how people viewed the sun. They viewed the sun as moving, Rising and Setting everyday.. And finally I think we must all take a few steps back and think deeply upon this. Do the theories and claims of the scientific world dictate in how we are to interpret the Bible of which the scientific community challenges the validity of the Bible in so many ways. Unto whom do we place our trust as final authority. The scientific world of forever changing theories or do we fully trust the holy word that God has given us. Bob what be our final authority when your confronted with such issues I guess it be a question we all must ask ourselves. The Bible be a very geocentric book . That we do know.. I probably not reply here to further questions out of respect for the Crossnote. He did say what I was writing about in previous posts was entirely another topic.The reason for the late reply when thinking upon the questions you asked . I’ll try and abide by his wishes after this post . Prim

You said........
"The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun".

Nope.......... The Earth actually revolves around, or orbits, the sun. One revolution around the sun takes the Earth about 365 days, or one year. Forces at work in the solar system keep the Earth, as well as the other planets, locked into predictable orbits around the sun.

This is one of the great miracles of God in Creation.

The Earth is "falling" around the Sun. The Earth has some initial momentum - it is moving in a direction, which is perpendicular to the direction of the Sun from the Earth. The Sun's gravity is enough to keep the Earth from flying off in a straight line, away from the Sun, but not enough to bring the Earth closer in - the Earth is continually changing its direction of movement, but in such a way that it follows a nearly circular path around the Sun.
If the Sun's gravity were stronger, it would pull the Earth in closer, but then the angle between the Earth's motion would also be changing more rapidly, so it would continue revolving around the Sun.
This concept is called the conservation of angular momentum, which is one of the basic principles of physics.
Source: https://www.quora.com/If-the-Suns-g...-why-hasnt-the-Earth-been-pulled-into-the-Sun

 

[bobinfaith]

I was hoping we wouldn’t go in this direction but if you insist, remember motion is relative to a fixed point, thus…
thus the sun does move. (Methinks the universe is bigger than us)

Sun: Facts - NASA Science

From our vantage point on Earth, the Sun may appear like an unchanging source of light and heat in the sky. But the Sun is a dynamic star, constantly changing and sending energy out into space. The science of studying the Sun and its influence throughout the solar system is called heliophysics...

science.nasa.gov

Bob I hope you well. The connection and misunderstanding being in that we all have been educated into a heliocentric belief system. Very few escape its influence. So when viewing verses like Joshua 10: 13-14 it becomes problematic when we are confronted by a moving sun as with many other passages in scripture which is direct opposition to heliocentricity, which has led to many colourful and alternative interpretations. The reason why I mentioned Genesis chapter1 is to show clearly that the earth was never moving around the sun because the sun wasn’t created until the 4tth day. The earth was already created prior to the sun, planets and even the stars . The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun I did read much discussion of how Joshua would have viewed the sun . It is clear in almost every ancient culture how people viewed the sun. They viewed the sun as moving, Rising and Setting everyday.. And finally I think we must all take a few steps back and think deeply upon this. Do the theories and claims of the scientific world dictate in how we are to interpret the Bible of which the scientific community challenges the validity of the Bible in so many ways. Unto whom do we place our trust as final authority. The scientific world of forever changing theories or do we fully trust the holy word that God has given us. Bob what be our final authority when your confronted with such issues I guess it be a question we all must ask ourselves. The Bible be a very geocentric book . That we do know.. I probably not reply here to further questions out of respect for the Crossnote. He did say what I was writing about in previous posts was entirely another topic.The reason for the late reply when thinking upon the questions you asked . I’ll try and abide by his wishes after this post . Prim

All I am saying is that since the Sun does not move, then we have to consider an alternate option! 5000 years ago, I think that an extention of the day to Joshua meant that he had more time to win the battle and the ramifications of whether the Sun stopped moving or the earth never entered his thoughts.
But that is just me. I as you said have no idea.

You said........"The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun". Nope.......... The Earth actually revolves around, or orbits, the sun. One revolution around the sun takes the Earth about 365 days, or one year. Forces at work in the solar system keep the Earth, as well as the other planets, locked into predictable orbits around the sun. This is one of the great miracles of God in Creation. The Earth is "falling" around the Sun. The Earth has some initial momentum - it is moving in a direction, which is perpendicular to the direction of the Sun from the Earth. The Sun's gravity is enough to keep the Earth from flying off in a straight line, away from the Sun, but not enough to bring the Earth closer in - the Earth is continually changing its direction of movement, but in such a way that it follows a nearly circular path around the Sun. If the Sun's gravity were stronger, it would pull the Earth in closer, but then the angle between the Earth's motion would also be changing more rapidly, so it would continue revolving around the Sun. This concept is called the conservation of angular momentum, which is one of the basic principles of physics.
Source: https://www.quora.com/If-the-Suns-g...-why-hasnt-the-Earth-been-pulled-into-the-Sun

Hello crossnote, Prim90 and Major;

Wow! When you share your knowledge of information to everyone, it's information that we / I can take with me, seriously, to consider and study further. I'm truly blessed by everyone's fellowship.

This didn't just pop in our heads but was initiated by Scriptures that crossnote presented.

When we read a Scripture it's interesting how the conversation will evolve around the hermeneutics, context and allegory of these Biblical stories taking us into other points that can be considered minor or significant notes of the original text.

I will admit, the suggestion of the earth revolving is a very good point tied in with Joshua's the sun standing still and the moon stayed, and Exodus' thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:

crossnote, I'm curious. Does the topic Greater Meteorological Event? hone in on God's ultimate purpose in both passages?

God bless you, brother and thank you.

 

[crossnote]

All of that is true. However.......that opens the door to other things!

Since you posted......" it takes about 230 million years for the Sun to make one complete trip around the Milky Way."

That right there indicates an OLD EARTH to me. Then of course that has actually nothing to do with the day or night in Scriptures! The earth moves around the sun which gives day and night and the 230 million years does not apply!

It was a quote from the NASA Science article (not mine) showing the sun moves now at that rate.
They have no proof that it was that way since creation (since generally, they don't believe in creation).

 

[crossnote]

crossnote, I'm curious. Does the topic Greater Meteorological Event? hone in on God's ultimate purpose in both passages?

(my response) Ultimate purpose? Probably not, except in the general scheme of things of "Nothing is impossible with God" along with the general strengthening of one's faith in the Creator.

 

[Major]

It was a quote from the NASA Science article (not mine) showing the sun moves now at that rate.
They have no proof that it was that way since creation (since generally, they don't believe in creation).

I understood that.

 

[Prim90]

You said........
"The earth is in a very place the sun moves around us and we not around the sun".

Nope.......... The Earth actually revolves around, or orbits, the sun. One revolution around the sun takes the Earth about 365 days, or one year. Forces at work in the solar system keep the Earth, as well as the other planets, locked into predictable orbits around the sun.

This is one of the great miracles of God in Creation.

The Earth is "falling" around the Sun. The Earth has some initial momentum - it is moving in a direction, which is perpendicular to the direction of the Sun from the Earth. The Sun's gravity is enough to keep the Earth from flying off in a straight line, away from the Sun, but not enough to bring the Earth closer in - the Earth is continually changing its direction of movement, but in such a way that it follows a nearly circular path around the Sun.
If the Sun's gravity were stronger, it would pull the Earth in closer, but then the angle between the Earth's motion would also be changing more rapidly, so it would continue revolving around the Sun.
This concept is called the conservation of angular momentum, which is one of the basic principles of physics.
Source: https://www.quora.com/If-the-Suns-g...-why-hasnt-the-Earth-been-pulled-into-the-Sun

Major that’s exactly what I said ( the earth is in a very special place. The sun moves around us and not we around the sun) Your quote is from the Quor website. The claim being made is that the gravity of the sun draws the earth to it and it is the earths motion that does the rest keeping it in orbit around the sun with enough motion to stop it from falling into sun. The term you use is ( conservation of angular momentum) But is this factual or merely a theory? Well upon closer scrutiny I came across many mathematical and scientific equations in the article . I do know some about the preciseness mathematical equations and that is they are précise to a tee. So precise that you can formulate any mathematical equation you like and match it to any theory you choose. Major so you fully grasp what I mean I leave you a quote from one of the greatest scientists of that era . The article on the Quor website is a theory nothing more. As to the earth free falling though space to the required distance and orbit around the sun . Our Bible says the opposite Major upon reading your recommended article another matter became abundantly clear. And that is with all those scientific and mathematical equations I wouldn’t have a clue in understanding them and perhaps many of us here also. Only in the understanding of what scientists proclaim from them And thats Ok. Because we have a much surer authority in evaluating what is truth and what is not. Sola Scriptoria from the reformation times . Which put everyone one on equal standing and accountability to the word of God. Be that of mighty kings, noblemen to the worker or the begger in the street, and might I add the scientific boffins also who have become a religion unto themselves dictating on how the Bible should be interpreted and of where it be wrong. Major our Bible clearly says it is the sun that rises moves and sets in the late afternoon. Also In the book of psalms, even though poetic it still doesn’t change the fact that the sun follows a allotted circuit. My conclusion the Earth is not moving the sun certainly is . At least according to the Holy Book. Prim

 

[Major]

Major that’s exactly what I said ( the earth is in a very special place. The sun moves around us and not we around the sun) Your quote is from the Quor website. The claim being made is that the gravity of the sun draws the earth to it and it is the earths motion that does the rest keeping it in orbit around the sun with enough motion to stop it from falling into sun. The term you use is ( conservation of angular momentum) But is this factual or merely a theory? Well upon closer scrutiny I came across many mathematical and scientific equations in the article . I do know some about the preciseness mathematical equations and that is they are précise to a tee. So precise that you can formulate any mathematical equation you like and match it to any theory you choose. Major so you fully grasp what I mean I leave you a quote from one of the greatest scientists of that era . The article on the Quor website is a theory nothing more. View attachment 10448As to the earth free falling though space to the required distance and orbit around the sun . Our Bible says the opposite View attachment 10449Major upon reading your recommended article another matter became abundantly clear. And that is with all those scientific and mathematical equations I wouldn’t have a clue in understanding them and perhaps many of us here also. Only in the understanding of what scientists proclaim from them And thats Ok. Because we have a much surer authority in evaluating what is truth and what is not. Sola Scriptoria from the reformation times . Which put everyone one on equal standing and accountability to the word of God. Be that of mighty kings, noblemen to the worker or the begger in the street, and might I add the scientific boffins also who have become a religion unto themselves dictating on how the Bible should be interpreted and of where it be wrong. View attachment 10450Major our Bible clearly says it is the sun that rises moves and sets in the late afternoon. Also In the book of psalms, even though poetic it still doesn’t change the fact that the sun follows a allotted circuit. My conclusion the Earth is not moving the sun certainly is . At least according to the Holy Book. Prim

Prime....I am totally aware of what the Bible says. I am also aware of what my eyes see and my brain comprehends. The SUN DOES NOT revolve around the earth!

The Earth is not flat.

In 1475 Leonardo da Vinci in his notebook “IL SOLE NO SI MUOVE,” which translates to “the sun does not move.” In addition to this statement, he concluded that the earth is not the center of the circle of the sun, nor is it the center of the universe.

If you want to reject him and ALL of the thousands of others then that is your choice.

 

[BibleLover]

Joshua 10:13-14 KJV
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. [14] And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Exodus 10:22-23 KJV
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days: [23] They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Which would you consider a greater meteorological event? The sun and moon standing still or 3 days of solid darkness?

The greater METEOROLOGICAL event was 3 days of darkness since it affected the local Egyptian environment. The sun and moon stopping their rotation was an ASTRONOMICAL event that affected the entire universe.

 

[crossnote]

The greater METEOROLOGICAL event was 3 days of darkness since it affected the local Egyptian environment. The sun and moon stopping their rotation was an ASTRONOMICAL event that affected the entire universe.

True, but with God, is walking any greater than chewing gum?

 

[Prim90]

Prime....I am totally aware of what the Bible says. I am also aware of what my eyes see and my brain comprehends. The SUN DOES NOT revolve around the earth!

The Earth is not flat.

In 1475 Leonardo da Vinci in his notebook “IL SOLE NO SI MUOVE,” which translates to “the sun does not move.” In addition to this statement, he concluded that the earth is not the center of the circle of the sun, nor is it the center of the universe.

If you want to reject him and ALL of the thousands of others then that is your choice.

Well some will see what they want to see I guess. But for most in the ancient world and even up to the modern era of the early 20th century, Geocentricity was the accepted model by most. As to flat earth belief it was never deemed the official belief of the church throughout church history, The geocentric model certainly was the accepted viewpoint. I’m 95 percent of certainty that the flat earth model is incorrect more so with the many inconsistencies when trying to harmonise the Southern Hemisphere to it’s model of things. It fails with the required time zones they just don’t fit. But still the movement is to be commended with the many in-depth studies they do exposing the New World Order and revealing the many fake pics that are accepted as gospel. As to Leonardo Da Vinci believing that the sun was stationary. Major he certainly believed that. He also believed the early creation account was wrong believing that the world was much older. I’m sure you and Leonardo would get along like two peas in a pod. : ) As to the other thousands you mentioned that believed like Leonardo. Yes I reject very much. More so when considering the entirety of the Christian faith at the time. Be it the Roman Catholic or Protestant faith. Both held strongly to the geocentric belief system. Those thousands you mention do fade into significance . Major I simply take God at his word..As many of the reformation faith did.

 

[crossnote]

View attachment 10458

Equally, "Who will venture to place the authority of Calvin above that of the Holy Spirit"?
(IOW,...What's good for the goose is good for the gander.)

 

[Prim90]

Equally, "Who will venture to place the authority of Calvin above that of the Holy Spirit"?
(IOW,...What's good for the goose is good for the gander.)

I don’t think Calvin ever placed himself above the Holy Spirit nor above the word of God at least knowingly in anyway.

 

[crossnote]

I don’t think Calvin ever placed himself above the Holy Spirit nor above the word of God at least knowingly in anyway.

Right, I was just saying what Calvin said of Copernicus held true to himself as well. That's all.

 

[Prim90]

Right, I was just saying what Calvin said of Copernicus held true to himself as well. That's all.

Crossnote perhaps you misunderstand what John Calvin is saying. How could Calvin be in the same category. He is not the one claiming that the earth moves around the sun contrary to what God states in the Bible, he is not the one claiming that science shall now determine over holy writ and what God says. This is the reality of what the Copernican revolution was all about to undermine the authority of God and the Bible.

 

[Major]

Well some will see what they want to see I guess. But for most in the ancient world and even up to the modern era of the early 20th century, Geocentricity was the accepted model by most. View attachment 10457 As to flat earth belief it was never deemed the official belief of the church throughout church history, The geocentric model certainly was the accepted viewpoint. I’m 95 percent of certainty that the flat earth model is incorrect more so with the many inconsistencies when trying to harmonise the Southern Hemisphere to it’s model of things. It fails with the required time zones they just don’t fit. But still the movement is to be commended with the many in-depth studies they do exposing the New World Order and revealing the many fake pics that are accepted as gospel. View attachment 10457 As to Leonardo Da Vinci believing that the sun was stationary. Major he certainly believed that. He also believed the early creation account was wrong believing that the world was much older. I’m sure you and Leonardo would get along like two peas in a pod. : ) As to the other thousands you mentioned that believed like Leonardo. Yes I reject very much. More so when considering the entirety of the Christian faith at the time. Be it the Roman Catholic or Protestant faith. Both held strongly to the geocentric belief system. Those thousands you mention do fade into significance . Major I simply take God at his word..As many of the reformation faith did. View attachment 10458

You said.............
"Well some will see what they want to see I guess.".

And that right there says all that needs to be said. !!!!!

 

[Prim90]

You said.............
"Well some will see what they want to see I guess.".

And that right there says all that needs to be said. !!!!!

Well I said a whole more than just that. But if that’s how you look upon it . I guess it’s does

 

[Major]

Well I said a whole more than just that. But if that’s how you look upon it . I guess it’s does

Yes you did.

1. The Sun moves around the earth.
2. The earth is flat.

You said.....
"Major I simply take God at his word.. As many of the reformation faith did."

There are literally a thousand things that we now know as truth that was not understood when the Bible as written.
WE all must learn and adapt to the environment we live in without rejecting the truth that science proves. That in itself has NO bearing on taking God at His Word as what He has said can not change. However....He has given humanity a brain to develope "things" and to live better lives.

For example....YOU are using a smart phone to post on this site. .Is that found in the Bible?
The phone in your hand is in fact a computer........................................Is that found in the Bible?
Computer...............................................................................................................Is that found in the Bible?
World wide communications are now available.....................................Is that found in the Bible?
The ability to operate and remove tumors, and replace hearts.......Is that found int the Bible?
Automobiles..........................................................................................................Is that found in the Bible?
Knee replacement surgery...............................................................................Is that found in the Bible?

"Taking God at His Word" in NO way means that we are required to reject proven science whether that science shows us the earth moves around the sun or that the earth is round or that a doctor can operate on YOU and save your life.

Thak you for your opinions.

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