Group Wants To Set Up Monument To Satan In Oklahoma
- Thread starter Glomung
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RiverJordan
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Gee, the Heritage Foundation...couldn't you find a more biased source? David Barton maybe? 
Gee, the Heritage Foundation...couldn't you find a more biased source? David Barton maybe?
do you challenge the data cited ???
if not, then how is it biased and not an academic authoring ???
perhaps you are not aware that both friendly and hostile witness are of equal relevance ???
if the two conflict, then you decipher which has inaccurate data ..
I think you missed the point of what I wrote. I am trying to say, "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." America could have built a million churches but its ethics of native American genocide make it a kingdom of this world. America could have sung Hallelujah at the beginning of every governmental session, but its tyranny over Africans makes it a follower of the dark powers. America can tear down symbols to every other religion and make Christianity the official religion but the monstrosity of drone strikes and wars for oil make it a disciple for the spirit of Antichrist. There is absolutely nothing Christian about the State that uses violence as a tool for power, domination and oppression of unjust systems. The State never was and never will be Christian, because its very logic is non-Christian.
RiverJordan
Inactive
What matters in this regard is the law. As it stands, the US is not a Christian theocracy (nor are any of its states) and Christianity is not any sort of official government religion. Plus, for most of the last century, courts at all levels have consistently ruled that governments are to remain neutral when it comes to religion.
Personally, I prefer it that way. I'd hate to think what would happen if we opened up the can of worms that would be establishing a government religion.
Personally, I prefer it that way. I'd hate to think what would happen if we opened up the can of worms that would be establishing a government religion.
Why confuse a simple issue. Deal with the bombs separately. We are dealing with a statue of SATAN in a country that adopted Roman CHRISTIAN law. A country that God has blessed!! A country that is behind evangelizing most of the world. If the devil wants to influence the world, he starts with the USA. Lets not be naive!
I am up for a discussion on the Middle east if you want to start a new thread
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At some point, America turned a corner and has been moving away from God ever since. We Americans and Christians need to be careful that we don't allow our values and Constitution to be perverted by a minority. Separation of church and state only applies to the establishment of a government sanctioned religion, like the Church of England was. Stand up and wake up America!
Perhaps I am not being clear enough, since you are not getting the intent of what I am writing. Let me be crystal clear. I reject the notion that America is a Christian Nation as blasphemy. I reject the notion that America has been blessed by God as blasphemy. We built the United States by the power of Satan, on the backs of abused Chinese migrants, by murdering Native Americans and enslaving Africans. The Kingdom of Darkness has cloaked itself in Christendom and hid itself from the vast majority of Christians.
Why would anyone want to put up a monument to............2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
That should be erected in our hearts, not the town square.
Why do people (community) get their knickers in a knot when their sins find them out?
Erect a monument to the very law that forbids it,and some group embarks on an 'In your face' campaign.
Allow holy matrimony to become just a social convenience and some group will embark on their own 'in your face' campaign.
Really, what is the difference between erecting a monument in defiance of God's will, and erecting a monument to the personification of that defiance??
That should be erected in our hearts, not the town square.
Why do people (community) get their knickers in a knot when their sins find them out?
Erect a monument to the very law that forbids it,and some group embarks on an 'In your face' campaign.
Allow holy matrimony to become just a social convenience and some group will embark on their own 'in your face' campaign.
Really, what is the difference between erecting a monument in defiance of God's will, and erecting a monument to the personification of that defiance??
RiverJordan
Inactive
I don't know about blasphemy, but I agree that we're not a Christian nation (in the sense that Christianity is some sort of official state religion). We were deliberately set up to be a secular democratic republic and that's what we are.
That's a very good, undeniable point. Much of the "work" of "building" the US was carried out by abuse and atrocities. That's why I don't get the "America is moving away from God" mantra from the political right. At what point were we closer to God? When slavery was the law of the land? During the Jim Crow era? When Catholics and Jews were oppressed and discriminated against? When women couldn't vote?
I think the "America is getting worse" is exclusively a white male perspective and can be roughly translated as "Things aren't run solely for my benefit anymore".
I am a Roman Catholic, so I interpret that commandment as one and the same as the passage against worshiping other gods and idolatry. It is not a commandment against the statue-making of all heavenly things. God Himself commands Moses to erect angel statues within the Tabernacle: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat" (Exodus 25:18).
As soon as Christianity became the dominant religion in the Roman Empire, it began to act very anti-Christian. The Christ who stood up for the adulteress would not sanction the death penalty for pagans who practice their faith.
John, as a Roman Catholic, you need to understand the idea behind those statutes that the Lord gave to Moses.
God never contradicts Himself, so when there is an apparent contradiction, we need to be prepared to consider anew how we apply things.
The intent behind the second commandment was to steer people away from worshiping things other than the true God.
The Ark of the Covenant was very specifically to do with the worship of God...there is no contradiction.
The erection of a monument be it representing the stone tablets upon which the finger of God wrote or be it the great pumpkin, it has nothing to do with the required worship of God as laid down by Himself through Jesus.
John 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
John 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
God is Spirit...we should seek to worship Him in Spirit, not in stone.
That is as I see it.
I am not positing a contradiction. I am a Roman Catholic so I love statues of saints and angels. I find no contradiction between what is written in the Ten Commandments and the veneration of Christian saints and angels through statues. Protestants merely misread the Ten Commandments in my humble opinion.
"I do not worship matter, but the Creator of matter, who for my sake became material and deigned to dwell in matter, who through matter effected my salvation. I will not cease from worshiping the matter through which my salvation has been effected" — St. John of Damascus
No probs John, I don't, but I respect your position. I am assuming many/most in Oklahoma are not RC, and the people behind the erection of the TC monument are not RC. And it is not rocket science to deduce that those pushing for a goat statue are not RC either.
But let's please drop this line of discussion because I really do not want to see people chiming in with anti RC comments.
But let's please drop this line of discussion because I really do not want to see people chiming in with anti RC comments.