Healed From Pain
- Thread starter brodav9
- Start date
I disagree to this, Salvation means complete subjection unto God’s will, It means following God’s order. It means you have to follow all the teachings of Jesus Christ for your salvation. For us to be saved we must observed the commandments of our Lord. Not just believer’s walk but for our salvation.
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
We just do not believe in God and the Gospel. We have to follow the gospel for us to be saved. It is written by Paul.
I Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Meaning we have to earnestly follow what the apostle Paul have preached and keeping that Gospel you’ll be saved. Not just believing you’ll be saved. We need to keep it.
… unless ye believed in vain… If you’ll reject that, you won’t be saved. Verses to proof.
II Thessa. 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
. Very clear verses from the Bible. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that not obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. They will be punished also. Those who do not obey.
See.. from your first statement.wrong interpretation.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believeth on Him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
These Jews already believed in Him, but Jesus want them to continue in the words of Christ. If you will just believe on Him you are not called a disciple. For a disciple of Christ is someone who believes in Him and continue His words.
We just do not accept His name, but accept His teachings.
Colo 2:6 – As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Mr. Darby it is crystal clear answer from the Bible. I hope you also examine the teachings & doctrines of your church.
Good day[/quote]
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
We just do not believe in God and the Gospel. We have to follow the gospel for us to be saved. It is written by Paul.
I Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Meaning we have to earnestly follow what the apostle Paul have preached and keeping that Gospel you’ll be saved. Not just believing you’ll be saved. We need to keep it.
… unless ye believed in vain… If you’ll reject that, you won’t be saved. Verses to proof.
II Thessa. 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
. Very clear verses from the Bible. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that not obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. They will be punished also. Those who do not obey.
See.. from your first statement.wrong interpretation.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believeth on Him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
These Jews already believed in Him, but Jesus want them to continue in the words of Christ. If you will just believe on Him you are not called a disciple. For a disciple of Christ is someone who believes in Him and continue His words.
We just do not accept His name, but accept His teachings.
Colo 2:6 – As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Mr. Darby it is crystal clear answer from the Bible. I hope you also examine the teachings & doctrines of your church.
Good day[/quote]
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
I'm afraid that you are again reading things into verses that are simply not there by confusing discipleship and salvation. Salvation is received by faith. A Christian walk of discipleship is to put your salvation into practical action. If you will note Matthew 28:20 says nothing about observing all things in order to be saved.
In I Corinthians 15, It is the gospel that saves, not works. Had you quoted the next couple of verses you would have read this:
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
We obey the gospel by believing it.
Romans 10:15-17
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Notice that in this passage, obedience to the gospel consists of belief in it. So we find a few verses up, Paul promises that those who believe will be saved.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
You are confusing the Christian walk with the new birth, and thus you are reading things into passages which are not there. You have quoted many verses dealing with good works, but none of those passages taken in context in any way hints that works justifies anyone.
I do not believe what I believe because of the teaching of any church. I believe what I believe as the result of 25 years study of the scripture. But, I have arrived at many of the same conclusions that saints generally have throughout the teachings of the church.
We could keep going on like this for years, and you are not likely to budge me in the least. I would like to encourage you to confront the questions that I have asked. You seem to be avoiding them.
Do you have assurance of eternal life?
How will you know when you have done enough good works to ensure that you have eternal life?
How was the publican justified on the spot when he asked God for mercy if works are necessary to salvation?
How did the dying thief get saved when he had no life left to obey in? He had no works.
In I Corinthians 15, It is the gospel that saves, not works. Had you quoted the next couple of verses you would have read this:
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
We obey the gospel by believing it.
Romans 10:15-17
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Notice that in this passage, obedience to the gospel consists of belief in it. So we find a few verses up, Paul promises that those who believe will be saved.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
You are confusing the Christian walk with the new birth, and thus you are reading things into passages which are not there. You have quoted many verses dealing with good works, but none of those passages taken in context in any way hints that works justifies anyone.
I do not believe what I believe because of the teaching of any church. I believe what I believe as the result of 25 years study of the scripture. But, I have arrived at many of the same conclusions that saints generally have throughout the teachings of the church.
We could keep going on like this for years, and you are not likely to budge me in the least. I would like to encourage you to confront the questions that I have asked. You seem to be avoiding them.
Do you have assurance of eternal life?
How will you know when you have done enough good works to ensure that you have eternal life?
How was the publican justified on the spot when he asked God for mercy if works are necessary to salvation?
How did the dying thief get saved when he had no life left to obey in? He had no works.
Salvation is received by faith. I say amen to this. But not faith alone.
I’m not avoiding your questions. I just react first to your statement. When you said “Christians bear one another's burdens, then they fulfill the law of Christ, which is the law of love. Hence it pertains to the Believer's walk, not his salvation.” For obeying is not just believer’s walk but also it is for our salvation
II Thessa. 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
I believe it is by faith, but not alone.What I’m saying is it is not by faith alone. But we must add to our faith, how do you understand add? You know arithmetic. Add to your faith virtue;and to virtue knowledge and to knowledge temperance and to temperance patience and to patience godliness and to godliness brotherly kindness and to brotherly kindness, charity.
For if you just have faith but lacketh these things you are blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgorgotten that you was purged from your old sins. II Pt. 1:9
(to be continued..)
I’m not avoiding your questions. I just react first to your statement. When you said “Christians bear one another's burdens, then they fulfill the law of Christ, which is the law of love. Hence it pertains to the Believer's walk, not his salvation.” For obeying is not just believer’s walk but also it is for our salvation
II Thessa. 1:8-9
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
I believe it is by faith, but not alone.What I’m saying is it is not by faith alone. But we must add to our faith, how do you understand add? You know arithmetic. Add to your faith virtue;and to virtue knowledge and to knowledge temperance and to temperance patience and to patience godliness and to godliness brotherly kindness and to brotherly kindness, charity.
For if you just have faith but lacketh these things you are blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgorgotten that you was purged from your old sins. II Pt. 1:9
(to be continued..)
Darby, you keep hammering ''believing'' but surely you know that the devil believes but does not obey / accept / care.
Then you keep hammering the need for faith, what faith exactly are you referring to? It is so frustrating to hear people speak on faith without grasping its definition and relevant application to a Christian walk. Faith that God exists? Before we jump, we need faith in gravity. Once we land, we are a true believer in gravity. No more faith in its existence required. Christians live by faith in as much as we cannot see God or we need to build our faith in His goodness / He keeps to His word. Dare anyone not believe / have faith that God exists (Rom 1:20) and dare any Christian not be able to say that Jesus is Lord (Matt 16:17, 1 Corinthians 12:3).
God searches our hearts (Rom 8:27), if they are not right we will not have an encounter with Holy Spirit and know Jesus as Lord. We will jump, but never land. We will need to grab at straws to keep some kind of faith as we will still be flying in the air. I am not accusing you, but this is where healing / prosperity / positive teachers expose themselves.
Then you keep hammering the need for faith, what faith exactly are you referring to? It is so frustrating to hear people speak on faith without grasping its definition and relevant application to a Christian walk. Faith that God exists? Before we jump, we need faith in gravity. Once we land, we are a true believer in gravity. No more faith in its existence required. Christians live by faith in as much as we cannot see God or we need to build our faith in His goodness / He keeps to His word. Dare anyone not believe / have faith that God exists (Rom 1:20) and dare any Christian not be able to say that Jesus is Lord (Matt 16:17, 1 Corinthians 12:3).
God searches our hearts (Rom 8:27), if they are not right we will not have an encounter with Holy Spirit and know Jesus as Lord. We will jump, but never land. We will need to grab at straws to keep some kind of faith as we will still be flying in the air. I am not accusing you, but this is where healing / prosperity / positive teachers expose themselves.
Is accepting Jesus a 'work'?
Yes. Thanks Rusty.
Quoting Rom 10:15-17 without James 2:19 is teaching a half-truth like the devil did in Matthew 4. We are all capable of doing it and its not to say our intentions are bad, but wrong is wrong.
Again.
Very clear from the Bible. I Corinthians 15:2Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
How can we be sure? By accepting the Gospel and living by it. If you’ll only accept Christ but reject His teachings. It is also rejecting Him and His power.
To accept Christ is to accept His teachings, to continue His words.
The only way to salvation is to BELIEVE in Christ, Accept Him and His teachings and live by His teachings.
How do we know that we are saved? Again I cor. 15: 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
Again, it is the gospel, not good works, by which we are saved according to these verses. You are only quoting part of the passage. It is the death of Christ for our sins and his resurrection that is the content of the gospel, and that which saves us.
Do you really keep all of Christ's teachings? Have you ever lusted after someone of the opposite sex? Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever thought of yourself before someone else? Have you ever thought evil of another? Are you certain that you really keep ALL of Christ's teachings? Exactly how many must you break before you are lost? Adam only had to break one rule in the garden of Eden. Are sure you have kept every single commandment without one slip up? The fact is that if you must depend on your obedience, you could NEVER have assurance of eternal life.
And what does a doctrine of works do to the atonement? Paul says in this passage that Christ died for our sins. He paid the price for your sins. Yet, you would have me believe that if I fail to be totally obedient to his commandments, then I must pay for my disobedience with the loss of my soul. How can this be if Jesus died for my sin? He paid the price for my disobedience.
Romans 5:1,2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
I am justified by faith, exactly as the publican who asked for mercy and was justified.
Again, How was the publican and the dying thief saved? The publican was justified as soon as he asked for pardon. What works contributed to the thief's entrance into paradise?
Do you really keep all of Christ's teachings? Have you ever lusted after someone of the opposite sex? Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever thought of yourself before someone else? Have you ever thought evil of another? Are you certain that you really keep ALL of Christ's teachings? Exactly how many must you break before you are lost? Adam only had to break one rule in the garden of Eden. Are sure you have kept every single commandment without one slip up? The fact is that if you must depend on your obedience, you could NEVER have assurance of eternal life.
And what does a doctrine of works do to the atonement? Paul says in this passage that Christ died for our sins. He paid the price for your sins. Yet, you would have me believe that if I fail to be totally obedient to his commandments, then I must pay for my disobedience with the loss of my soul. How can this be if Jesus died for my sin? He paid the price for my disobedience.
Romans 5:1,2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
I am justified by faith, exactly as the publican who asked for mercy and was justified.
Again, How was the publican and the dying thief saved? The publican was justified as soon as he asked for pardon. What works contributed to the thief's entrance into paradise?
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
Read all of my posts here and your questions should be answered.
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
I'm not going to continue in this discussion too much longer, as I can see that Reanne is not receptive to what I have to say. It seems that others seem to agree with her. I will make a point to all of you, though, before I leave this discussion.
Each individual has only one of two choices.
1. He can stand before God in his own righteousness, or,
2. He can stand before God in the righteousness of Christ.
If any man had reason to think he could stand before God by his good and religious works it was Paul. He said in Philippians 3:4-6,
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
However, his blameless righteousness was not going to get him anywhere. Paul came to see when he met the risen Christ that his good works and personal righteousness would not get him anywhere in the eyes of God. He realized that we can only be righteous by our faith in Christ. Verse 9,
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
This righteousness is imputed by faith, without any deeds or good works. Romans 4:1-5,
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now if a believer's faith is counted for righteousness, he does not need good works to stand as righteous before God. Righteousness is imputed through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our sins. Righteousness is imputed without works. Paul goes on to say,
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Paul concludes this chapter by reiterating how righteousness is imputed. Verses 24,25
for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
How is this possible? Because Jesus bore the wrath of God on the cross for all of my disobedience to God's commandments. Isaiah 55:5,6,
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
My iniquity was laid on him. My sin was imputed to him. My disobedience put the stripes on his back. This is the gospel by which I am saved. I Corinthians 15:3,4,
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
And according to Paul, when we put our faith and certain confidence in this great fact, God counts us as righteous.
There are two kinds of religion in the world. One wherein man tries to please God by his good works and religious acts, and the faith of New Testament Christianity, where Christ alone has wrought our salvation.
I would urge those of you who seem to be putting confidence in your works to rather put your confidence entirely in the finished work of Jesus Christ instead.
John 3:17,18
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Each individual has only one of two choices.
1. He can stand before God in his own righteousness, or,
2. He can stand before God in the righteousness of Christ.
If any man had reason to think he could stand before God by his good and religious works it was Paul. He said in Philippians 3:4-6,
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
However, his blameless righteousness was not going to get him anywhere. Paul came to see when he met the risen Christ that his good works and personal righteousness would not get him anywhere in the eyes of God. He realized that we can only be righteous by our faith in Christ. Verse 9,
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
This righteousness is imputed by faith, without any deeds or good works. Romans 4:1-5,
What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Now if a believer's faith is counted for righteousness, he does not need good works to stand as righteous before God. Righteousness is imputed through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our sins. Righteousness is imputed without works. Paul goes on to say,
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Paul concludes this chapter by reiterating how righteousness is imputed. Verses 24,25
for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
How is this possible? Because Jesus bore the wrath of God on the cross for all of my disobedience to God's commandments. Isaiah 55:5,6,
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
My iniquity was laid on him. My sin was imputed to him. My disobedience put the stripes on his back. This is the gospel by which I am saved. I Corinthians 15:3,4,
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
And according to Paul, when we put our faith and certain confidence in this great fact, God counts us as righteous.
There are two kinds of religion in the world. One wherein man tries to please God by his good works and religious acts, and the faith of New Testament Christianity, where Christ alone has wrought our salvation.
I would urge those of you who seem to be putting confidence in your works to rather put your confidence entirely in the finished work of Jesus Christ instead.
John 3:17,18
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
No, Just base your answer in the Bible, and your explanation from the Bible also. If you want to explain something then you must also get the meaning and explanation from the bible not in the dictionary. Not cutting the verses and understanding what is written. As to whom it was addressed, if it is still in the dispensation of Christ etc.. And not rejecting verses.
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
I've given extensive scripture quotation, comparing scripture with scripture to let the Bible comment upon itself. I've done all that I can to give a scripture based answer. I have taken nothing out of context. But, I have learned through the years that unless God opens the understanding, men will not respond to the gospel. I do hope that someday you will see the impossibility of pleasing God by your works.
You’re talking works under ourselves. Works on our own. Or works under the law of Moses that cannot save us and justify us and which is abominable in the eyes of Lord. But it is different from the works that is being guided by God. Eph. 2:10 For we are his workmanships, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
We are laborers with God. Now can you say the impossibility of pleasing God? When we do His will and His commandments. No.
I peter. 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
Bro. Darby. I’m so happy that you respond again. If you review again your posts you’ll see statements that I know came from your own understanding in your 25 yrs of studying the scriptures.. I mean by just focusing on that certain verses. Not considering the whole.
We are sisters and brothers here. We can help one another. Examining the whole scriptures. Step by step. One by one
II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Amen?
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
This is the last I'm going to post on this.
Yes, God works in the believer AFTER he is has been justified by faith. That is the fruit of salvation. The problem is that you are pulling those passages out of context which deal with our walk after salvation, and make them conditions of salvation. You are confusing the root of salvation with the fruit of salvation.
Salvation is either all the work of grace or it is all of our works. It can't be both. They are mutually exclusive as I have demonstrated from Paul.
Can you honestly say that you are in TOTAL SUBJECTION to Christ in every area of your life at all times?
Yes, God works in the believer AFTER he is has been justified by faith. That is the fruit of salvation. The problem is that you are pulling those passages out of context which deal with our walk after salvation, and make them conditions of salvation. You are confusing the root of salvation with the fruit of salvation.
Salvation is either all the work of grace or it is all of our works. It can't be both. They are mutually exclusive as I have demonstrated from Paul.
Can you honestly say that you are in TOTAL SUBJECTION to Christ in every area of your life at all times?
I’m so sad that this is your last post.
When you are in Christ you look to the things that is infront of you or ahead of you just like that and forgetting the things which are behind. When you are in Christ you are walking in Him. Does not mean you are perfect. Just like what the scripture says. No one is perfect. You are tempted just like Christ He was tempted also but He has controlled and resist it. And also what more us. We are tempted all the time but the scriptures says that He that was tempted but has resist it is the one who’ll help us also in that time.
We live in Christ and we do not continue to sin. We ask for His mercy and love to dwell in us always because without Him we can do nothing. You know Paul he finished His course, that’s why he is sure that He is saved. If you’ll just say just believe and you’re saved. Consider also those who have accepted Christ they also believe but turn their backs again. And there is no more chance according to the scriptures. Also Solomon. You know Him very.. but God did not forgive him. How about Judas Iscariot.
I pray that God will direct us all.
God bless Mr. Darby
Sincerely in Christ,
Reanne
When you are in Christ you look to the things that is infront of you or ahead of you just like that and forgetting the things which are behind. When you are in Christ you are walking in Him. Does not mean you are perfect. Just like what the scripture says. No one is perfect. You are tempted just like Christ He was tempted also but He has controlled and resist it. And also what more us. We are tempted all the time but the scriptures says that He that was tempted but has resist it is the one who’ll help us also in that time.
We live in Christ and we do not continue to sin. We ask for His mercy and love to dwell in us always because without Him we can do nothing. You know Paul he finished His course, that’s why he is sure that He is saved. If you’ll just say just believe and you’re saved. Consider also those who have accepted Christ they also believe but turn their backs again. And there is no more chance according to the scriptures. Also Solomon. You know Him very.. but God did not forgive him. How about Judas Iscariot.
I pray that God will direct us all.
God bless Mr. Darby
Sincerely in Christ,
Reanne
M
Mr. Darby
Guest
Well, I guess you got me to reply at least one more time.
When you said that a believer does not continue to sin, you are half right. The believer has a new nature, or spiritual man, that never sins, yet he still has a flesh that does sin. These two natures are in conflict as Paul described in Romans 7.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
This will continue until we are liberated from the 'body of this death'. How much practical victory over sin the believer has in his daily life depends upon to what extent he is mortifying his flesh at any given time. The path of victory is found in the believer walking in the spirit rather than in the flesh.
As for Solomon, there are no scriptures that says he was lost, and in fact we have the book of Ecclesiastes written by him under divine inspiration AFTER his foray into sin. As for Judas, he is no example of a believer in Christ failing to be saved after falling into sin. Remember, Jesus said he was a devil from the beginning. You cannot make the argument that Judas was ever saved unless you are prepared to argue that there are saved devils.
When you said that a believer does not continue to sin, you are half right. The believer has a new nature, or spiritual man, that never sins, yet he still has a flesh that does sin. These two natures are in conflict as Paul described in Romans 7.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
This will continue until we are liberated from the 'body of this death'. How much practical victory over sin the believer has in his daily life depends upon to what extent he is mortifying his flesh at any given time. The path of victory is found in the believer walking in the spirit rather than in the flesh.
As for Solomon, there are no scriptures that says he was lost, and in fact we have the book of Ecclesiastes written by him under divine inspiration AFTER his foray into sin. As for Judas, he is no example of a believer in Christ failing to be saved after falling into sin. Remember, Jesus said he was a devil from the beginning. You cannot make the argument that Judas was ever saved unless you are prepared to argue that there are saved devils.
Darby, just like we take Mark 10:9 with Matt 19:9, we need to consider verses like 1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck. There is no contradiction, just a need to grasp the full picture. Shipwreck takes knowingly steering ourselves into an extreme storm and maintaining course in that storm. In marriage we know adultery can result in divorce but with God it is not so much what the sin is, rather the level of inner rebellion / grieving the Holy Spirit needed for that sin. Hence if we see Christians continue in those mentioned in 1 Cor 6:9-11 for example, we must be concerned for their salvation.
That argument can be made. Jesus said to Peter 'get behind me satan'.