Hell not eternal / Study

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Well, what's the point in them suffering forever in the valley Gehenna while the rest of the believers live in happiness. How is it possible for a believer to live in happiness forever while the valley is burning of bodies forever. Nothing about burning forever makes sense. It's not biblical and is based on old philosophies and fictional stories, like Humpty Dumpty.
Its not biblical in the sense that nowhere past or present has it taken place. Nor has God past or present ever tortured. I agree with you here ATP. When scripture says torment and not torture + past and present evidence + God describes things from His vantage point = fire as a means of torture becomes VERY debatable.

Many accuse God of torture in the past but evidence points toward God ordaining sorcerers for example be burnt 'properly' (overseen by prophets and elders) at the stake. NO brazen bull!
 
It's not false doctrine, everything I've applied to my posts have been backed up with Hebrew and Greek translations.

In the New Testament we have in Greek..

the “age of the age,”
the “age of the ages” and
the “ages of the ages.”

Do you understand that an "age" has a beginning and an end? For example, the word aion is used several times to mean a period of events which were before these periods, for example before the ages. See 1 Corinthians 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, and I could go on and on. You will look in the New Testament and it says that there were events before there were the ages or before an aion. Obviously aion cannot mean eternity, can it? 8 If it is “before an age” and age means eternity, how can you be before eternity? It is an impossibility. Eternal hellfire is not the penalty of sin. The penalty of sin is death (Romans 6:23 NIV). If the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14 NIV, then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:26 NIV
But you don't apply the Greek and Hebrew the same... you can't "interpret" eternal salvation and eternal damnation with different meanings if it's the same word.
 
You sound a whole lot like SDA though. You got this doctrine from somewhere.

The doctrine has to ignore concepts, Ignore other Accepted Greek Scholars and I gave 3 respected references.

Has to ignore Abraham giving a descripture of a very hot place. Some say... "Well that is just a Parable.........."
It was no Parable, but an actual account.

Have to make Aionios not eternal in just the places they choose. When it is just a Greek Adjective that continues on forever unless defined in the article like all Greek Adjectives.

SDA is the only other I can think of that get confused about these things. There are some other forms of it, but these are normally small groups.

We may not have Exact Hebrew and Greek to explain spiritual things but we do have the concept in the Article.

You don't take natural language make it dogmatic, and expect to not miss concepts of things human language needs many words to explain.

One reason Christ was not translated.

Abraham's seed has a everlasting covenant. That covenant is forever though the Hebrew Word does not exactly mean that. Even today we are the seed of Abraham.

There are things by concept and spiritual that are true, despite the proper and exact word being available.

Salvation in Greek has nothing to do with eternal life or anything spiritual. It means to be healed and protected. Physically.

It was though the only Word best to describe a new spiritual concept. It can mean both.

Saved is the same thing........ Means to be healed of something physical.

If we use the same rule of understanding, then there is whole lots of healing to believe for and very little Eternal life........ well not even eternal life is Aionios is not eternal, but has a end age (Which it don't)

Staying concistant with this dogmatic understanding of language is not good. The concept of the spiritual is what is important.

False doctrines do not stay consistant in understanding though. It's a hallmark of false doctrine. We would also have to understand Salvation, saved, Christ as their actualy non spiritual understanding if we were to do that with one word, it must apply to all.

I am pretty much in agreement with you except for this........
" Saved is the same thing........ Means to be healed of something physical."

The Lord Jesus told us in Luke that He came to seek and SAVE the lost.
IMO He was referring to there condition of sin with is a "spiritual" condition and their rebellion to God.
 
But you don't apply the Greek and Hebrew the same... you can't "interpret" eternal salvation and eternal damnation with different meanings if it's the same word.

Agreed!
However.....that is the only way that one who has this false doctrine can make it fit their personal desires.
They have to work and twist the Scriptures from their original intent.
 
I could say the same. If the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14 NIV, then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:26 NIV. End of story.

Not so my brother. That is only the beginning of the story, not the end.
That is what you want it to mean NOT what is actually says with proper context.

In Rev. 20:14 that you posted, DEATH is used there for the gravel gives up the bodies. HELL gives up the SOULS!!!

No one is said to escape or enter eternal bliss but ALL the unsaved will suffer their eternal torment forever.

DEATH and SIN brought into existence by man's sin end where all unsaved sinners do, namely the "Lake of Fire".
It means what is says. An actual, eternal separation from God in a conscious unceasing series of torments.
 
It's not false doctrine, everything I've applied to my posts have been backed up with Hebrew and Greek translations.

In the New Testament we have in Greek..

the “age of the age,”
the “age of the ages” and
the “ages of the ages.”

Do you understand that an "age" has a beginning and an end? For example, the word aion is used several times to mean a period of events which were before these periods, for example before the ages. See 1 Corinthians 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, and I could go on and on. You will look in the New Testament and it says that there were events before there were the ages or before an aion. Obviously aion cannot mean eternity, can it? 8 If it is “before an age” and age means eternity, how can you be before eternity? It is an impossibility. Eternal hellfire is not the penalty of sin. The penalty of sin is death (Romans 6:23 NIV). If the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14 NIV, then the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:26 NIV

The truth is, you are right. The Greek word that you are working with "AION" can be translated into a temporal sense as it is in Rom. 16:25: ..........
"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages (aionios1) past."

However, you are leaving out the reason why it is used in that manner in that verse. The reason it is translated that way is because of CONTEXT, and that is extremely important. Context determines meaning!!!

You have said that you are a student of the Greek and Hebrew and I do hope that you are telling the truth. If that is the case, I have to ask you how you failed to realize the grammatical position I just explained to you as it is one of the basics in language studies.

Here is what I see taking place with your claim that "aionion" can be translated into something temporal and that its root means "age". That being your teaching then allows you to say that any reference to "eternal fire," "eternal torment," or "eternal punishment" is not really eternal. Instead of "eternal torment," it is "aionion torment." Instead of "eternal punishment," it is "aionion punishment." That way, you can teach that there is no eternal hell, no eternal punishment, and no eternal damnation and actually say that is what the Bible says.

But that is really disingenuous and leads others to say that what you are teaching is a "False Doctrine" and in essence they are right aren't they???? See.....it is really easy to make the Scriptures say what WE want them to say instead of accepting what they actually do say.

This approach is used by the SDA and JW's and by the Universalists and can be confusing to someone who doesn't understand Greek, and that is part of the reason that Universalism has followers. It is true that the root "aion" means age. But just because a root means age does not mean that every word derived from that root means a limited duration of time. For example, consider this verse that is speaking about God:

1 Timothy 6:16 says.....
"who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen".

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature and CONTEXT determines the meaning. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator -- without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion.(Thanks to Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry).
 
I am pretty much in agreement with you except for this........
" Saved is the same thing........ Means to be healed of something physical."

The Lord Jesus told us in Luke that He came to seek and SAVE the lost.
IMO He was referring to there condition of sin with is a "spiritual" condition and their rebellion to God.

Transliteration: sōzō Save, Saved.

Phonetic: sode'-zo

Thayer Definition:
to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
one (from injury or peril)
to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue.


Major, there is the definition above. Has nothing to do with saving the lost from sin.

Both Strongs and Thayer are dictionaries based on their idea of how the Word was used. Though helpful, they both also used their doctrine help define what words mean.

So Major, Sozo is a Greek Word that was around before Jesus shows up. As believers I think we get this idea that language was just invented when scriptures where given by the Holy Spirit.

Sozo never meant saved from a lost and sinful condition. That concept was not around before Jesus came.

Same with Salvation. It had nothing to do with anything spiritual.

This is why when Jesus told Nickdemus that you must be born again, He is thinking you have to enter the womb again. That is the only concept of being born He knew because "Born Again" as in eternal life was not around before Jesus.

This was my point to ATP. If you get dogmatic in the language of man who was spiritualy stupid until God sheds light, then none of your words mean anything that has to do with spiritual understanding, but only natural understanding

So when Jesus said He came to "SAVE" the Lost. What other Word was He suppose to use? How many told Jesus they know where they are at, and are not lost?

So, My thing to ATP was that if you used your same Word translating ability on every thing you understand. Then you would stay spiritually in the dark just like those were in Jesus time.

However, False Doctrine says "They are willfully" ignorant. For if they were innocent, then they would have the same understanding across the board, and Saved to them would have nothing to do with eternal life.

Since they are not ignorant, then they have ignored what they knew right from the start and twisted words of their own choosing, not staying consist and guilty before God.
 
May I suggest that this topic is brought back down to a civil discussion. This is not a debate forum!
I will be watching this closely.
 
Here is what I see taking place with your claim that "aionion" can be translated into something temporal and that its root means "age". That being your teaching then allows you to say that any reference to "eternal fire," "eternal torment," or "eternal punishment" is not really eternal.

But you see what you did there. Eternal is an English word, a mistranslation. Also, “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” There is nothing fruitful about eternal damnation in burning flames. If Jesus wanted to imply vindictive punishment, the author of Matthew could have chosen the Greek word “timoria,” but he didn’t – he used a much softer word. In fact, language experts have stated that no language on earth before the second century AD had a single word that meant "eternity" or "endless time."

But you don't apply the Greek and Hebrew the same... you can't "interpret" eternal salvation and eternal damnation with different meanings if it's the same word.
Matt 25:46 NIV / Aionios - Greek doesn't really have a word to describe Olam so the translators of the Septuagint used the Greek word "aionion" which is the adjective form of the word "aion" which means an age. In Mathew 25:46 Jesus used "aionios" again an adjective from "aion". The reason I say it is mistranslated is because both Olam and aionion are used of things that end. Things that end are not eternal. Jesus is using the same word to compare life and death as in, he's contrasting the wonderful life the believer will receive with the death the unbeliever will receive. That life goes on as long as one can see. Just because “aionios” is used to describe life and punishment, does not mean they have to be of the same length and quality any more than a “small” television has to be the same size as a “small” radio because the same adjective is used to describe both. Often adjectives take on some of the value of the word they describe. Therefore, “kolasin aionion” (mistranslated “everlasting punishment”) does not have to be the same length as “zoen aionion” (mistranslated “eternal life”). Aionion should not have been translated “everlasting” because aion and its adjective are clearly time words that have beginnings and endings. And “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” There is nothing fruitful about eternal damnation in burning flames.

If Jesus wanted to imply vindictive punishment, the author of Matthew could have chosen the Greek word “timoria,” but he didn’t – he used a much softer word. In fact, language experts have stated that no language on earth before the second century AD had a single word that meant "eternity" or "endless time." Jesus used aionios to give you specifics on what would happen in the next Age, which is, the "Tabernacle Age", where the overcomers will be living in immortality amongst people who are still mortal. Eternal is timeless, so Jesus was letting us know it wasn't eternity. Matthew 25:46 is also man's mistranslation. The word is aionios which Jesus was telling us that the overcomers will live in the next age in immortality, but the evil doers will go into aionios punishment, but the overcomers into aionios life, not eternal life where there is no time, but "life in the ages to come", which has time. What will happen to the evil doers? They will perish to the Age of Tabernacles, and will be raised in the 2nd resurrection (Rev. 20:5-6), where they will be judged according to their works.

Furthermore, Matthew 25:46 does not speak of individual salvation based upon faith in Christ, it speaks of separation of nations based upon how they treated Jesus. And lastly, the context seems to indicate the judgments would be upon the religious leadership of Israel and those who considered themselves righteous, not street sinners, low-life Jews and/or adherents to other religious systems, that is, the Gentiles.

For example, the word aion is used several times to mean a period of events which were before these periods, for example before the ages. See 1 Corinthians 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, and I could go on and on. You will look in the New Testament, and it says that there were events before there were the ages or before an aion. Obviously aion cannot mean eternity, can it? 8 If it is “before an age” and age means eternity, how can you be before eternity? It is an impossibility. Eternal hellfire is not the penalty of sin. The penalty of sin is death (Romans 6:23 NIV).
 
But you see what you did there. Eternal is an English word, a mistranslation. Also, “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” There is nothing fruitful about eternal damnation in burning flames. If Jesus wanted to imply vindictive punishment, the author of Matthew could have chosen the Greek word “timoria,” but he didn’t – he used a much softer word. In fact, language experts have stated that no language on earth before the second century AD had a single word that meant "eternity" or "endless time."


Matt 25:46 NIV / Aionios - Greek doesn't really have a word to describe Olam so the translators of the Septuagint used the Greek word "aionion" which is the adjective form of the word "aion" which means an age. In Mathew 25:46 Jesus used "aionios" again an adjective from "aion". The reason I say it is mistranslated is because both Olam and aionion are used of things that end. Things that end are not eternal. Jesus is using the same word to compare life and death as in, he's contrasting the wonderful life the believer will receive with the death the unbeliever will receive. That life goes on as long as one can see. Just because “aionios” is used to describe life and punishment, does not mean they have to be of the same length and quality any more than a “small” television has to be the same size as a “small” radio because the same adjective is used to describe both. Often adjectives take on some of the value of the word they describe. Therefore, “kolasin aionion” (mistranslated “everlasting punishment”) does not have to be the same length as “zoen aionion” (mistranslated “eternal life”). Aionion should not have been translated “everlasting” because aion and its adjective are clearly time words that have beginnings and endings. And “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” There is nothing fruitful about eternal damnation in burning flames.

If Jesus wanted to imply vindictive punishment, the author of Matthew could have chosen the Greek word “timoria,” but he didn’t – he used a much softer word. In fact, language experts have stated that no language on earth before the second century AD had a single word that meant "eternity" or "endless time." Jesus used aionios to give you specifics on what would happen in the next Age, which is, the "Tabernacle Age", where the overcomers will be living in immortality amongst people who are still mortal. Eternal is timeless, so Jesus was letting us know it wasn't eternity. Matthew 25:46 is also man's mistranslation. The word is aionios which Jesus was telling us that the overcomers will live in the next age in immortality, but the evil doers will go into aionios punishment, but the overcomers into aionios life, not eternal life where there is no time, but "life in the ages to come", which has time. What will happen to the evil doers? They will perish to the Age of Tabernacles, and will be raised in the 2nd resurrection (Rev. 20:5-6), where they will be judged according to their works.

Furthermore, Matthew 25:46 does not speak of individual salvation based upon faith in Christ, it speaks of separation of nations based upon how they treated Jesus. And lastly, the context seems to indicate the judgments would be upon the religious leadership of Israel and those who considered themselves righteous, not street sinners, low-life Jews and/or adherents to other religious systems, that is, the Gentiles.

For example, the word aion is used several times to mean a period of events which were before these periods, for example before the ages. See 1 Corinthians 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, and I could go on and on. You will look in the New Testament, and it says that there were events before there were the ages or before an aion. Obviously aion cannot mean eternity, can it? 8 If it is “before an age” and age means eternity, how can you be before eternity? It is an impossibility. Eternal hellfire is not the penalty of sin. The penalty of sin is death (Romans 6:23 NIV).

Our Moderator, "Fish of Faith" has asked us "that this topic is brought back down to a civil discussion".

I am all for that my friends!!!! Lets all do that as this is a highly controversial issue but one that needs to be discussed in love and peace as it is very important.

As with any point of Bible doctrine, the issue of eternal torment for the wicked dead must be carefully sought out from the Bible, final authority simply because that is exactly what we are told to do in 2 Tim. 3:16, 17.

This cannot be stressed too much, for it is only in the Scriptures that we can learn God's truths. This means that we must first go to the written word of God to understand the abstract. For example, if Scripture pointedly declares that the wicked dead will be in eternal torment, then we must interpret God's mercy, love, grace and justice as allowing for this.

Now I do not know how many of us have done studies in other denominational teachings but in contrast, the following is an example of how Ellen G. White the founder of Seventh-Day Adventism (SDA), views this doctrine:

HELL;
"How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning HELL; that for the sins of a brief earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live.

The Jehovah Witnesses (JW) have similarly written:
"Hell could not be a place of torment because such an idea never came into the mind or heart of God. Additionally, to torment a person eternally because he did wrong on earth for a few years is contrary to justice".

These comments can be found............. at : http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternaltorment.htm

Now lets read revelation 20:10........
"Rev. 20:10: The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"

That seems radically different than the JW's and SDA doctrine. Who is right????

The Greek word translated tormented in Rev. 20:10, with its meaning, is: basanizo, bas-an-id'-zo; from G931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

It is found elsewhere: And suddenly they [demons] cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Mt. 8:29, NKJV).

Consequently, this verse and Rev. 20:10 together give us in-depth insights into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt. 25:41, NKJV).

Such everlasting fire that the Lord spoke of in Mt. 25:41 was specially prepared for spirit beings to be tormented in forever and ever (Rev. 20:10; Mt. 8:29). According to that verse, Rev. 20:10 and Mt. 25:46 people will also go into this special fire.

And these ["goats"] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (KJV). The Greek word for "punishment" in this verse also means torment: kolasis, kol'-as-is; from G2849; penal infliction: punishment, torment.

If they were annihilated, they couldn't experience everlasting torment. All people likened unto goats will be thrown into the same fire prepared for the devil and his angels, which collaborates with the clear teaching of Rev. 20:10. Eternal torment is real and must be avoided.
 
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Our Moderator, "Fish of Faith" has asked us "that this topic is brought back down to a civil discussion".

I am all for that my friends!!!! Lets all do that as this is a highly controversial issue but one that needs to be discussed in love and peace as it is very important.

As with any point of Bible doctrine, the issue of eternal torment for the wicked dead must be carefully sought out from the Bible, final authority simply because that is exactly what we are told to do in 2 Tim. 3:16, 17.

This cannot be stressed too much, for it is only in the Scriptures that we can learn God's truths. This means that we must first go to the written word of God to understand the abstract. For example, if Scripture pointedly declares that the wicked dead will be in eternal torment, then we must interpret God's mercy, love, grace and justice as allowing for this.

Now I do not know how many of us have done studies in other denominational teachings but in contrast, the following is an example of how Ellen G. White the founder of Seventh-Day Adventism (SDA), views this doctrine:

HELL;
"How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning HELL; that for the sins of a brief earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live.

The Jehovah Witnesses (JW) have similarly written:
"Hell could not be a place of torment because such an idea never came into the mind or heart of God. Additionally, to torment a person eternally because he did wrong on earth for a few years is contrary to justice".

These comments can be found............. at : http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternaltorment.htm

Now lets read revelation 20:10........
"Rev. 20:10: The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"

That seems radically different than the JW's and SDA doctrine. Who is right????

The Greek word translated tormented in Rev. 20:10, with its meaning, is: basanizo, bas-an-id'-zo; from G931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

It is found elsewhere: And suddenly they [demons] cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Mt. 8:29, NKJV).

Consequently, this verse and Rev. 20:10 together give us in-depth insights into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt. 25:41, NKJV).

Such everlasting fire that the Lord spoke of in Mt. 25:41 was specially prepared for spirit beings to be tormented in forever and ever (Rev. 20:10; Mt. 8:29). According to that verse, Rev. 20:10 and Mt. 25:46 people will also go into this special fire.

And these ["goats"] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (KJV). The Greek word for "punishment" in this verse also means torment: kolasis, kol'-as-is; from G2849; penal infliction: punishment, torment.

If they were annihilated, they couldn't experience everlasting torment. All people likened unto goats will be thrown into the same fire prepared for the devil and his angels, which collaborates with the clear teaching of Rev. 20:10. Eternal torment is real and must be avoided.
Thank you Major. Can all please follow suit?
 
Now lets read revelation 20:10........
"Rev. 20:10: The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"

That seems radically different than the JW's and SDA doctrine. Who is right????

The Greek word translated tormented in Rev. 20:10, with its meaning, is: basanizo, bas-an-id'-zo; from G931; to torture:--pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

It is found elsewhere: And suddenly they [demons] cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Mt. 8:29, NKJV).

Consequently, this verse and Rev. 20:10 together give us in-depth insights into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt. 25:41, NKJV).

Such everlasting fire that the Lord spoke of in Mt. 25:41 was specially prepared for spirit beings to be tormented in forever and ever (Rev. 20:10; Mt. 8:29). According to that verse, Rev. 20:10 and Mt. 25:46 people will also go into this special fire.

And these ["goats"] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (KJV). The Greek word for "punishment" in this verse also means torment: kolasis, kol'-as-is; from G2849; penal infliction: punishment, torment.

If they were annihilated, they couldn't experience everlasting torment. All people likened unto goats will be thrown into the same fire prepared for the devil and his angels, which collaborates with the clear teaching of Rev. 20:10. Eternal torment is real and must be avoided.

Hi Major, thank you for the opportunity. It is a hot topic indeed.

I'm not denying there will be torment. That's not the argument. The argument is the time span of hell. The words everlasting, eternal and forever and ever are English translations. To get the proper meaning you would have to go to the Hebrew and Greek. The Bible was never written in English. To understand the ages and what the plan of the ages that God put forth in the NT, you must go to Hebrew and Greek origin. An age always has a beginning and end. - ATP
 
Hi Major, thank you for the opportunity. It is a hot topic indeed.

I'm not denying there will be torment. That's not the argument. The argument is the time span of hell. The words everlasting, eternal and forever and ever are English translations. To get the proper meaning you would have to go to the Hebrew and Greek. The Bible was never written in English. To understand the ages and what the plan of the ages that God put forth in the NT, you must go to Hebrew and Greek origin. An age always has a beginning and end. - ATP

It's not a "HOT" topic. Your the only one here that does not seem to get it. The rest of us have been trying to help you. A hot topic would be where several where on one side and several on the other.

Your the only one bro.
 
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