Hello, I Am An Atheist. Ask Me Anything.

Correction: I have not received an unkind personal message from any of this site's members. I have a similar post on a similar site and it was one of their members. My mistake.
 
ffb25 said:
Correction: I have not received an unkind personal message from any of this site's members. I have a similar post on a similar site and it was one of their members. My mistake.
Click to expand...

Even if you were a rude, hostile, bigoted, and just plain mean, no one should be sending you unkind messages. However, you seem like a friendly, welcoming kind of guy, so that makes it easier on us.

KidThumbsUp.jpg
 
ffb25 said:
"I continue to read the Bible. Even if you don't consider it a historical message or the absolute word of God, it is one of the most important works ever written (from a cultural/literary perspective)."

It is good that you continue to read the Bible, even if you just look at it now from an 'atheist' view... i would like to know that when you read about the many miracles, the incredible events that happened that God showed His glory such as parting of the sea (by the way there is evidence at the bottom of the Red Sea where the Jews crossed ...), the Christians in Rome despite all kept the faith of our Lord even though they died horribly (and this is well documented also) ... how does it make you feel...?

In my experience with atheists, and i have them in my own family, they do not read the Bible and when they do it is to use it against anything i say... you don't seem angry as Dawkins, just you seem a bit on the verge of more like an agnostic than an atheist. You also ask why believe and instead not just be an atheist...? i say why be an atheist... what purpose does it serve... it is like gambling and throwing the dice in the dark and not knowing the outcome... wouldn't you rather know the direction of the path you are traveling on... ? :)
 
ffb25 said:
I apologize @calvin , I forgot that question when I was replying.

It is nowhere explicitly stated. Some scholars have treated the genealogies in genesis as complete and have calculated that this would put the date of the earth's creation somewhere in 4004 b.c.

HOWEVER, I do realize that other books suggest that these genealogies are not complete and that some of the complex family relationships are lost on translation. I do not mean to say that the only interpretation of scripture is that the earth is that young. It isn't. It's merely the first skeptical question that I asked myself. I come from a young Earth family. When I asked myself "why should I believe in a young Earth?" The next question was "why believe any of it?". Thus far I have not encountered a satisfactory answer. You are all welcome to provide one. I could come up with another claim in the Bible that I find difficult to believe but as I say I'm not here to attack.

Thank you for your clarification. Yes, that is certainly possible.
Click to expand...

Hey howdy matt.

Nice to meet you, my name is actually David. My post isn't to try and 'save' you. I just thought I'd share a little with you. I too was skeptical, raised in various churches, and I fell away several times.

About the age of the earth, I believe it's as old as scientist calculate, what 5.5 billion years. You see, between genesis 1:1 and 1:2 there is a gap. I believe genesis is a description of God recreating the earth after a third of the angels with Lucifer had been here for a long period.

I don't believe God created the earth covered with the darkness described in genesis looking at the biblical Hebrew text. That darkness was better described as chaos. Why would God create the earth covered with that?

Then look at what God did, He separated that darkness.

He was recreating what a third of the angels, and Lucifer had ruined. The earth was covered with water, like in the flood of noah. He was washing away what had become corrupt.

God has a goal. It's to reproduce Himself. And this third of the angels botched it up with Lucifer as their leader. Now He, God, is trying it with us. That is why we have free will. God doesn't want to create, by fiat, beings that will automatically follow Him. He is looking for beings that will choose His way, His way of love and giving.

That is why we have a human spirit.

And the crazy thing is, I'm not trying to 'save' you. Why, because I know that we don't choose God, He chooses us. And, He is very selective. Look at how He choose Abram(Abraham), Noah, the prophets, and how Jesus choose the apostles.

God, the bible, and what it's all about, is oh so very simple, but man tries to make it what he wants, and complicates it.

Salvation isn't now. Jesus didn't come to save satans world, why would He? Salvation comes when Jesus returns.

These are my beliefs, and they may not reflect those of this site, or their members. They are not intended to take anything away from anyones beliefs. And those seeking God and Jesus please me.

My question to you Matt, would be, what or Who brought all this intricate creation into being?
 
ffb25 said:
I apologize @calvin , I forgot that question when I was replying.

It is nowhere explicitly stated. Some scholars have treated the genealogies in genesis as complete and have calculated that this would put the date of the earth's creation somewhere in 4004 b.c.

HOWEVER, I do realize that other books suggest that these genealogies are not complete and that some of the complex family relationships are lost on translation. I do not mean to say that the only interpretation of scripture is that the earth is that young. It isn't. It's merely the first skeptical question that I asked myself. I come from a young Earth family. When I asked myself "why should I believe in a young Earth?" The next question was "why believe any of it?". Thus far I have not encountered a satisfactory answer. You are all welcome to provide one. I could come up with another claim in the Bible that I find difficult to believe but as I say I'm not here to attack.

Thank you for your clarification. Yes, that is certainly possible.
Click to expand...
To me, it is just not that important. To me the Bible is about the relationship between God and man. I suspect that if the Bible were a scientific treatise, even Einstein would have been bamboozled.
As it is, God created everything, Man rebelled and fell from a healthy relationship into one spoiled by sin.
Beginning with Gen ch 12, God began a program of redemption which culminates in Christ Jesus. Everything else in the Bible is either crunchy bits to chew on or sweet icing to enjoy.:)
 
ffb25 said:
I apologize @calvin , I forgot that question when I was replying.

It is nowhere explicitly stated. Some scholars have treated the genealogies in genesis as complete and have calculated that this would put the date of the earth's creation somewhere in 4004 b.c.

HOWEVER, I do realize that other books suggest that these genealogies are not complete and that some of the complex family relationships are lost on translation. I do not mean to say that the only interpretation of scripture is that the earth is that young. It isn't. It's merely the first skeptical question that I asked myself. I come from a young Earth family. When I asked myself "why should I believe in a young Earth?" The next question was "why believe any of it?". Thus far I have not encountered a satisfactory answer. You are all welcome to provide one. I could come up with another claim in the Bible that I find difficult to believe but as I say I'm not here to attack.

Thank you for your clarification. Yes, that is certainly possible.
Click to expand...
Most Christians I know believe in an old earth and 4004BC Adam. The three Chief reasons I believe are: 1. Gen 1:1 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Many see this as earth existed but was un-inhabitable / not ready for humans. 2. Mankind cannot co-exist with a T-Rex. 3. The fallen angels were cast to earth before the creation of man.

But at the same time the young earth creationists have many strong arguments. So I would never argue this. Just keep to personal beliefs on it. It is just not a material issue for me and nor should it be for others. What Jesus, the prophets and Paul taught is material.
 
ffb25 said:
@LysanderShapiro :

"oh that part? I'm not sure how that happened, I think god did that."
Click to expand...
You do need to think on that more bud. The many possibilities all boil down to a creator. A Creator from another realm not limited by the laws of physics is the only option. Everything else is simply a red herring. When people say ''sludge, astronaut or anything else they are simply dodging the fact that by the laws of physics 0+0 = 0. Remove the particles from the particle collider and you have?

For me the existence of God (a good God) is best proven by seeing intelligent design in all things.
 
ffb25 said:
Hi guys, thank you for your questions. Since you both asked why I left my faith I will start with ixoye_8's questions and then get to that.

By faith I do mean belief in a God or any supernatural elements to the universe.

I was a Christian, yes. I was raised in the Lutheran church. I attended Sunday School and vacation Bible study in my childhood and completed the requisite classes to be confirmed in the Lutheran church when I was a teenager. I was very active for many years. I am now 22 and left when I was maybe 17. I continue to read the Bible. Even if you don't consider it a historical message or the absolute word of God, it is one of the most important works ever written (from a cultural/literary perspective).

Leaving my religion didn't happen all at once like it does for some. When I was in my early teens I started questioning the idea of a church. I thought it was bizarre that we were expected to celebrate God en masse. I was convinced that I could do so just as effectively in my own house. I was still devoted to the Christian God, I just became skeptical of organized religion. It's not that I thought it was suspicious, I just didn't understand what its purpose was.

Later on, I became somewhat suspicious of the Bible. I'm not going to point out contradictions in the Bible because I think that's taking cheap shots; There is something in the Bible everyone can use for their own purposes. Ultimately though, this was the beginning of the end. It sort of opened the floodgates. The first thing I said to myself was "it seems rather unlikely that the world in 6,000 years old, as the Bible claims it to be". Then things sort of started to unravel in my hands. If I considered one part of the Bible untrue, then it seemed odd to me that I should accept the rest of it 'on faith', if you'll excuse the expression.
Click to expand...

I believe you are being honest and sincere, but I cannot believe you were a Christian. I am sure you have heard this before ;)...you can bark like a dog and sleep in a kennel but that does not make you a dog. I raise this argument with my ex-Christian atheist family all the time :)...it drives them nuts usually, but I have my reasons, so bear with me please.

In the OT the Jews were God's chosen race. God gave them a temple. High priests would speak to God directly when going beyond the veil. Almost / if not every generation of the Jews had a prophet. Unlike the prophets of today, these prophets had un-deniable power from God. They kept the Jews in line. If anyone doubted, not God but rather God being for them and having expectations of them (obeying the laws) the prophets and high priests would put them back in line. So when Jesus came and prophesied the destruction of the temple and then said He was leaving after being resurrected...the people panicked. Without Jesus or a temple, how in the universe would they be kept in faith and safe from enemies? Jesus comforted them by saying John 14 that the Holy Spirit will come. He is called the comforter in John 14:26. As Christians / Christianity 101 = We have to grasp the significance of the Holy Spirit being here! The Holy Spirit gives to those who draw close to the Lord (James 4:8) / obey what Jesus taught (John 14:24) a revelation that Jesus is Lord. Matt 16:16-17 and 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. This is tied to being born again and made a new creation according 2 Cor 5:17.

We have either received the revelation from the Holy Spirit that Jesus is Lord, or we have not. We were either made a new creation or we were not. If we were, how in the universe can we deny Him without being a liar? Luke 8:46 sheds some more light 'But Jesus said, "Someone touched me; I know that power has gone out from me'. Note he was in a crowd (Luke 8:4) when He said that :).

If I consider the extremer atheist arguments like...rejecting the authenticity of the bible, rejecting that Jesus even existed...I don't see how anyone can if we consider the existence of the Torah, Jews in the middle of nowhere surrounded by enemies, the fulfilment of all prophecies and something like Napoleons account of Jesus http://www.thesacredpage.com/2008/04/napoleons-proof-for-divinity-of-jesus.html.

As long as you are dead honest and sincerely seeking the truth...and can judge yourself harshly on that 1 Cor 11:31!!! You should be fine before God on judgement day. The thing is though :cautious::cautious::cautious:...God has sent the Holy Spirit...and He knows that. The Holy Spirit is trying right to reach all who are living. The teachings of Jesus also put everyone at a T-junction. Either we accept them and draw closer to the Lord or we reject them. I do not for one second believe that anyone will be able to stand before God on judgement day and truthfully say, I never knew. I never believed in Jesus because I never believed there was a God. If they can, they will be grouped with the babies and kids and go straight to heaven for their tests to come another day...because God is good Psalm 136:1 and just 2 Thess 1:6-9.

You must also grasp that God does not and never will give two hoots whether or not you or I believe in His existence. As Calvin quoted Rom 1:20 I add to that Psalms 14:1. What is important to God is that we obey His commandments. Prophets / high priests enforced that OT, the Holy Spirit enforces that NT. Draw near to God on His terms and you will find Him! James 4:6 God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble. Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise. Matt 16:24-26 and John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your testimony ffb25. I had the opposite experience from your own. I was Atheist who became a Christian. In my minds eye, I saw contradictions in the bible and in religion. After becoming convinced that Jesus died for my sins, I was able to reconcile the differences. This too did not happen over night.
 
calvin said:
Hello ffb25, I seem to remember reading the unicorn argument on another forum. OK, so I have a few comments and questions based on your reply.

Have you considered a glowing coal once it is removed from the fire? It quickly dies does it not? You have removed yourself from the fire no?


Please tell me....where does the Bible claim the World is 6000 years old?

What if you were shown the hoof prints left by the Unicorn, would that not tend to convince you that it was there?
Paul, in his letter to the Roman Christians made a similar point in saying that The evidence in nature points to a Creator.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

If you were to ask the above question of me, my answer would be that I believe in God because I have met Him and I have found that He matches (so far) the profile of Him as given in the Bible.
Click to expand...


Dear brother, the world is around 6000 years old when you add up the chronology of Jesus generation to Adam, + 6 days;).
 
Banarenth said:
Just gonna make a note here. While I respect what you appear to be trying to do, and I have no immediate intention of stopping you, I know from experience that if you are genuine in what you say you are here for, you will be the very, very first ever. So long as you are here to learn, you are welcome. Just know, that I cannot allow you to inject doubt into the minds of those who are not strong in their faith. Not everyone here is a mature and strong Christian, and it is our job to protect those who are not yet able to protect their own faith.
Click to expand...

I commend you ..

as to the unicorn, you do find them in the Church of England's bible ..
the KJV translates "re'em" as unicorn in these verses ..
Num 23:22, Num 24:8, Deu 33:17, Job 39:9, Job 39:10, Psa 22:21, Psa 29:6, Psa 92:10, Isa 34:7

while the NASB translates "re'em" as "wild ox" ..

STRONGS .. re'em
1) probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known.

first I want to make note that this is in Hebrew and not Greek ..
the word unicorn is derived from the Greek, with the prefix "uni" meaning one .. corn does mean horn .. as in a "cornucopia " or "horn of plenty" (in Latin cornu copiae) and corno in Italian .. so a uni-corn IS a one-horned ..
BTW: horses don't grow horns

there is NOTHING to suggest the word "re'em" is anything more then a type of "domestic horned livestock" .. nor that it is single horned ..

however .. and interesting enough,
about 7 years ago I came across an article (w/pic) of a herdsman from Yemen who had a "uni-horn" .. it was a young male goat .. according to the article, it was an "art" passed on through generations by their fathers for thousands of years .. the process is similar to cradle-boarding, in that while the male is very young (and horns are still pliable) they would bind them together and they would grow into a "single horn" .. much in the way you can take a double sapling and tie them together and they will actually grow one into the other ..

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b360/Jeff123456/UNICORN.jpg
 
Last edited:
1 Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

I have been thinking of this verse and done some reading on it. Unbelief for a 'true', 'ex' Christian = rebellion. It is linked to witchcraft because a Christian has touched the spiritual realm and now rebelling against God. Being spiritual and against God = 'as' witchcraft. Following in the footsteps of the fallen angels. Daily defying God / self-willed unbelief = 'practicing' witchcraft.
 
Intojoy said:
Do you realize that if you have been saved, you cannot lose your salvation even by disbelieving?
Click to expand...
That may be true if 'truly' saved. But since we know that unbelief is an extremity of rebellion, the question arises as to how someone who has touched Jesus can continue at such a level for long? There is simply no escaping 2 Kings 17:17 They practiced divination and sorcery and sold themselves to do evil in the eyes of the Lord, provoking Him to anger.
 
I don't know if he is saved. But I could find out by asking key questions. Until there has been a dialogue between us my statement of salvation stands true for the truly saved. There is no question that a believer can be so out of fellowship that he even will take his own life yet he will be saved by the keeping power of God
 
Imho there is such a fine line between 'shipwrecking salvation' and 'OSAS if truly saved'. Its not worth arguing. Arminian or OSAS, we all need to listen to Paul in Phil 12:2.Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

OSAS = If we are a murderer we were never truly saved, get truly saved.
Arminian = If we are a murderer we are shipwrecking our salvation, repent sincerely / asap and get back on track.

We both agree that if we love the Lord we will obey His commandments (y). An apple tree bears apples!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top