I won't pretend to understand how god is love, just doesn't register with me you'll be sorry to hear. The whole idea that a christian is tought to believe that non-believers hate them seems to be a concept that creates an uncrossable divide in your minds.
Help Me!!!
- Thread starter Kittif
- Start date
Yup, that sums you up… you’re not from USA then? : )
You’re an atheist, we Christians believe in God.
If you will acknowledge, that there is God, that Jesus teachings is of God and not of man….then I will continue/ answer your question…
But if you will not acknowledge, at least for discussion purposes, what is the point of continuing?
I acknowledge that you believe there is a god but you can't expect me to actually believe in gods surely? Thats like me saying I won't talk to you if you believe in a god which I clearly do not.
I'm not one to rub someone up the wrong way for the sake of it so if you don't feel happy to discuss then please don't feel obliged to.
sure .. my pleasure ..
what these verses (Luk 14:26 & Mat 10:37) are expressing, is being in total disagreement with and against putting your (or anyone else's for that matter) will or ego before or above God's will (aka; the worldly before God) ..
the word "hate" is a strong translation, but miseō is the closest word in the Greek to say "being in total disagreement with and against" ..
μισέω miseō = to detest or to hate (verb)
στυγητός stygētos = detestable (adjective)
(see Tts 3:3)
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Our view of "hate" is a little different then the worldly view-- just like we are supposed to fear God. It's not a harmful fear it's a reverent one. One that brings beauty and safety not hurt and pain.
I am sorry to hear that, you are correct. Although I already know you cannot register this. No one void of the spirit can. I am not capable of understanding either. It is only God inside me that gives me the ability. I am able to love people in my life so fully and selflessly because of God changing me--- I KNOW that's not me. Before I was saved it was all about me me me. Lol. That's not love.
We are taught that people who do not believe they are sinning will hate the truth. Jesus is truth. Therefore they hate Jesus and indirectly his followers. The hate is displayed thru the unbelief, the hardened heart you have toward the truth.
Ok, that is the “at least” that I mean : )
Sorry for asking that….. it just that after typing a lot, explaining a lot to an atheist, they will say, sorry I do not believe in God! ….. how one can have a decent discussion with that : )
In logic, there is a premise, an assumption. It is an assumption of truth, so as conclusion can be made.
Both parties need to agree on the premise….
And if the premise was agreed upon, the discussion now can proceed…
What I do not like with atheist is when, at the middle of discussion, they will say: sorry, I do not believe in the premise! How can one have a decent discussion with that! : )
I think ixoye_8 already explained what it meant by hate in that verse, it is further explained by verses that followed it....
Thats very clever, I like it, although I don't agree with the definition of atheist entirely. The punctuation is ambiguous also.
I don't adhere to these;
"The more you have, the happier you will be" or "God brings redemption amd healing to the pain and suffering in the world" or "our existence has no grand meaning or purpose"
I concur ..
logic in itself most often is deduced upon faith beliefs ..
whether you believe in God or do not ..
so logic can be applied to basic concepts, but even then, logic is not absolute ..
thus an argument based on the premise of logic, is not exempt from faith ..
which is why Atheism in itself is a religion ..
religion = a system of belief (inre a deity/deities) based on faith ..
(atheists believe/have faith there is no God without proof it is not so)
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You mean here that your premise is that gods exist I presume? If so, then no I don't accept the original premise but I don't see why that prevents us from discussion. On the contrary, I see that as a necessity for discussion.
And I'm afraid I strongly disagree with "Atheism in itself is a religion". My viewpoint is not based on faith in the slightest. If I don't see a route from the theory to observed facts then I don't generally accept it. Stating that science has its roots in faith is a big disservice to all the past great people that have made huge leaps in our understanding (and landed men on the moon).
And I'm afraid I strongly disagree with "Atheism in itself is a religion". My viewpoint is not based on faith in the slightest. If I don't see a route from the theory to observed facts then I don't generally accept it. Stating that science has its roots in faith is a big disservice to all the past great people that have made huge leaps in our understanding (and landed men on the moon).
discussion is always good until one person concedes their position by denigrating the other in the discussion ..
if you have semantic issues with my definition .. perhaps you should give me your definition so we may agree upon a basic definition to use to progress in the discussion ..
you would need to show the indisputable evidence that God doesn't exist that would qualify you from denouncing your POV as not faith based ..
a theory by nature, is that which is not proven but believed may be true .. hence any belief in a theory is faith based .. no matter WHAT plausibility you can show ..
stating science has its roots in faith is honesty .. what is being dis-serviced ??? .. egos ???
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You are saying that because your belief is ENTIRELY faith based, my POV is subject to the same scrutiny? I don't dispute your faith, I dispute that I should have to prove that gods don't exist to validate my own POV. If you can, for a moment, imagine a world without gods, then this argument would be non-existent.
Also, your definiton of theory is perhaps not as I understand it if you want to argue simantics.
We're going down a slippery slope here, as I would argue that you should provide proof for your god first?
How many gods have there been anyway? If we take just the Greek and Roman gods they number in the thousands and all of their followers were just as sure of their existence as you are.
Dear TubbyTubby, i created this discussion to get help from other believer, which is not what you are doing, so please respect this enough to open a discussion yourself if you want to argue so bad, and leave this page for what it was created. Thank you!
Of course, my apologies I lost the thread of the original discussion.
The Tubster can' t catch a break! ha ha
I NEVER said my belief is entirely faith based ..
and indeed ALL peoples beliefs are assessed equally upon like premise or you are making a biased assessment ..
that is fine .. then don't ask me to prove God is real to validate my POV ..
if you deny an equal right of non-validation required .. the only discussion relevant is on IF one wishes to entertain another view, I do not fear that as detrimental to my faith ..
I don't desire to argue semantics, but rather to bridge that gap by finding a definition acceptable to both .. because semantics have all to often created an impasse that restricts free exchange of ideas ..
there has been only one God ever that actually exists .. as a student of history, I have shown where many of the mythical gods have actually been humans who were embellished into legends who were embellished into myth ..
my apologies ..
I addressed my first two posts to you ..
(to add to the good advice you had received)
if I have been amiss at addressing specifics ..
I would be happy to address them ..
and yes I agree .. a new thread should be opened ..
God Bless you ..
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God bless y'all!
This is probably going to be long, so please have some minutes for me, i need your advice! I may ask you to pray before you post
I need help. I came to this forum a few days ago because i wanted to meet the children of God. I feel like this is the lowest point in my relationship with the Lord and i need guiding for i've made a wall between us with my sins which i don't know how to destroy.
Two years ago, around November i was burning and living for the Saviour, that was the BEST time of my life! I was living all my days with Him. And He helped me out of my problems and lifted me up...and when i was high above things started to change..
I was too lazy to wake up in the morning to read the Bible and pray. And i started to get back to the things i've already got rid of for good. So i lost my close relationship with Him, and i felt too guilty to stabd before him.
I kept praying every night and going to church but my heart was filled with other things. And i know i need to clean my heart to make room for Him, but it is so hard..
The PROBLEM is that lately it's like i see hate everywhere. In these two years i was happily thinking that i am a christian, but when it came to action i didn't even have enough strength to say what i am.. At school they keep rejecting religion and humiliating it with their words... And even if i only search the web for a second i find people saying ugly things aboit Christianity and faith. And i can't help reading them:/
And i know that God exists, and i know He loves me, but sometimes these things pop up in my head:
-What if God doesn't exist?
-If He doesn't exist why would you dedicate your life to this thing?
-What if christian people are all mentally ill? And make themselves believe things?
-Think through... It doesn't even make sense..
And i KNOW these are NOT my thoughts! But i can't get them out of my head and they keep haunting me, and i don't know what to do.
I see all this hate for christians in this world and it's getting serious and i don't have enought faith currently so i am afraid of what's coming! And when i see even just a small sign from someone that they don't believe in God i get so angry and afraid at the same time.
The OTHER thing... I know this world is sick and Hell is the worst place, yet my mind just can't imagine Heaven to be so amazing.. I can't imagine how our life would be there.. Seems like my mind is stuck on Earth.
So please help me!! I really feel like this turning point in my life is either LIFE or DEATH. How should i start again? How do i fight the evil in me? How can i keep up again and have strong faith?
Thank you so much for your answers in advance!
God bless y'all!
This is probably going to be long, so please have some minutes for me, i need your advice! I may ask you to pray before you post
I need help. I came to this forum a few days ago because i wanted to meet the children of God. I feel like this is the lowest point in my relationship with the Lord and i need guiding for i've made a wall between us with my sins which i don't know how to destroy.
Two years ago, around November i was burning and living for the Saviour, that was the BEST time of my life! I was living all my days with Him. And He helped me out of my problems and lifted me up...and when i was high above things started to change..
I was too lazy to wake up in the morning to read the Bible and pray. And i started to get back to the things i've already got rid of for good. So i lost my close relationship with Him, and i felt too guilty to stabd before him.
I kept praying every night and going to church but my heart was filled with other things. And i know i need to clean my heart to make room for Him, but it is so hard..
The PROBLEM is that lately it's like i see hate everywhere. In these two years i was happily thinking that i am a christian, but when it came to action i didn't even have enough strength to say what i am.. At school they keep rejecting religion and humiliating it with their words... And even if i only search the web for a second i find people saying ugly things aboit Christianity and faith. And i can't help reading them:/
And i know that God exists, and i know He loves me, but sometimes these things pop up in my head:
-What if God doesn't exist?
-If He doesn't exist why would you dedicate your life to this thing?
-What if christian people are all mentally ill? And make themselves believe things?
-Think through... It doesn't even make sense..
And i KNOW these are NOT my thoughts! But i can't get them out of my head and they keep haunting me, and i don't know what to do.
I see all this hate for christians in this world and it's getting serious and i don't have enought faith currently so i am afraid of what's coming! And when i see even just a small sign from someone that they don't believe in God i get so angry and afraid at the same time.
The OTHER thing... I know this world is sick and Hell is the worst place, yet my mind just can't imagine Heaven to be so amazing.. I can't imagine how our life would be there.. Seems like my mind is stuck on Earth.
So please help me!! I really feel like this turning point in my life is either LIFE or DEATH. How should i start again? How do i fight the evil in me? How can i keep up again and have strong faith?
Thank you so much for your answers in advance!
Hi Kittif,
Believers have power but only by the Holy Spirit. To walk in the Spirit of God you must use your faith and believe that God will protect you. The only way to be protected is through faith. God can do any miracle, but he works through faith, not fear. God told me that every believer is more powerful than all evil combined. Pray that you know this, confess this, write it on papers and fill your room with this confession, speak it every chance you have, pray and believe it. You only need the faith of the mustard seed (that is tiny faith) to overcome because when in faith it is God who strengthens you, fights for you, protects you, shields you, and takes care of your needs. He can rain bread from heaven and terrify an army into retreat. Put your trust in him and refuse all negative beliefs. Instead ask God to see the people from his perspective son that instead of having fear you will have faith to share the gospel. The Holy Spirit will guide you. Cast all your cares on God. He is there for you.
Every negative thing you are believing cast it out of your thoughts and turn it into a confession of good. Believe and say out loud if possible, but in your head if not :God is real, God is love, God is all powerful, I believe in God, I believe everything God says, I only believe good. Also remember that love covers a multitude of sins so every time a believer gives love they stop the impact on great multitudes of sin affecting the world. Faith and love bring power. Remember God is love.
I pray that all fear leaves you, that you are faith filled, living in God's Spirit and that you experience God's love and presence.
God is infinitely, eternally, in every way, at all times and throughout eternity greater and more powerful than all things combined.