Hermaneutics, Interpretation of Scripture and General Revelation

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bobinfaith said:
Hello, Lanolin;

In my post I referenced the ESV and NIV, both indicating Jesus said seventy-seven times. The KJB reads seventy times seven. The interpretation is we shouldn't keep track, and always forgive those who are truly repentant, no matter how many times they ask.

God bless you.
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Hmm thats weird I suppose you still came to the same conclusion even though your bible version is completely different. But then how does it fit with your bible versions OT reference to Lamech? Genesis 4:24

Am wondering if any of this relates to prophecy and the limits to forgivenss for the israelites up to the time of Jesus, because Daniel references 70 weeks doesnt he. In Daniel 9:24

We know a week is seven days, so seventy weeks would be 490 days.
 
Lanolin said:
Hmm thats weird I suppose you still came to the same conclusion even though your bible version is completely different. But then how does it fit with your bible versions OT reference to Lamech? Genesis 4:24 Am wondering if any of this relates to prophecy and the limits to forgivenss for the israelites up to the time of Jesus, because Daniel references 70 weeks doesnt he. In Daniel 9:24 We know a week is seven days, so seventy weeks would be 490 days.
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Hey Lanolin;

Yes, I came to the same conclusion regarding forgiveness itself. We should forgive those who are truly repentant, no matter how many times they ask.

The best, correct way I can explain regarding seventy seven times (I failed to include times) ESV and NIV versus seventy times seven KJV, depends on the translation one is using. If Jesus said seventy seven times its from the Hebrew. If its seventy times seven its from the Greek.

Once again, if I'm correct, the Hebrew and the Greek in this passage are the same, thus the reason the King James Version has always been the translation closest to the Hebrew and Greek.

In Genesis 4:24 the KJV uses sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. The ESV and NIV uses seven times, then Lamech seventy-seven times.”

In Daniel 9:24 the KJV and the ESV use Seventy weeks. The NIV uses “Seventy ‘sevens’

I agree with you regarding the math forumula, We know a week is seven days, so seventy weeks would be 490 days.

Why couldn't the word "times" be consistent in all translations? I don't know. Perhaps ancient writings of the early Scripture didn't always agree with our western reading and understanding, or vice versa.

Can we agree whether seventy seven times or seventy times seven or 490 times is not the point, rather, Jesus teaches that we should not keep track how many times we forgive someone.

How many have never even forgiven once? Jesus knew this and if keeping score is the jist of these 3 passages, then the number becomes mute. Jesus knew this as He explained to Peter.

God bless you, Lanolin.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hey Lanolin;

Yes, I came to the same conclusion regarding forgiveness itself. We should forgive those who are truly repentant, no matter how many times they ask.

The best, correct way I can explain regarding seventy seven times (I failed to include times) ESV and NIV versus seventy times seven KJV, depends on the translation one is using. If Jesus said seventy seven times its from the Hebrew. If its seventy times seven its from the Greek.

Once again, if I'm correct, the Hebrew and the Greek in this passage are the same, thus the reason the King James Version has always been the translation closest to the Hebrew and Greek.

In Genesis 4:24 the KJV uses sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold. The ESV and NIV uses seven times, then Lamech seventy-seven times.”

In Daniel 9:24 the KJV and the ESV use Seventy weeks. The NIV uses “Seventy ‘sevens’

I agree with you regarding the math forumula, We know a week is seven days, so seventy weeks would be 490 days.

Why couldn't the word "times" be consistent in all translations? I don't know. Perhaps ancient writings of the early Scripture didn't always agree with our western reading and understanding, or vice versa.

Can we agree whether seventy seven times or seventy times seven or 490 times is not the point, rather, Jesus teaches that we should not keep track how many times we forgive someone.

How many have never even forgiven once? Jesus knew this and if keeping score is the jist of these 3 passages, then the number becomes mute. Jesus knew this as He explained to Peter.

God bless you, Lanolin.
Click to expand...

Agreed. 70 x 7 then would be "Forever".
 
Well Jesus wasnt going to keep asking Peter if he loved him, after three times Jesus asked Peter, Peter was getting annoyed. Imagine if Jesus had kept asking Peter 'do you love me' 490 times.

Interestngly Jesus does say 'until seventy times seven' and is quite specific that its multiples of seventy. Why doesnt he choose another number, like 88 or 62.

A seventy weeks would be leading up to jubilee time, because seven times seven is 49 and they always had a jubilee on the 50th year, according to the laws of moses. Thats when all debts are forgiven and any slaves or bondservants can go free.
 
Leviticus 25 explains jubilee, check out verse 8 too.
Why Jesus said seventy times seven and not seven times seven.

IMO it could be he is referencing Daniels 70 weeks. Which tells us the time that the israelites have to repent before the Messiah comes. it would seem once Jesus has made his sacrifice, that we have complete forgiveness. But theres probably many interpretions of this scripture. And different translated versions of it as well.

I have heard of quite a few that dont make any sense! But thats only when I start reading maybe some random website of someones opinions or a church doctrine instead of just sticking to the Bible and asking God for help undesrtanding it. 'Western readings' are very prevalent in christian literature, I mean we have a christian bookstore right in my home town and almost all the publications come from the US. And so they will talk about stuff thats pretty alien to how most of the world lives, let alone the middle east mileu in which Jesus lived and died.
 
Lanolin said:
Leviticus 25 explains jubilee, check out verse 8 too.
Why Jesus said seventy times seven and not seven times seven.

IMO it could be he is referencing Daniels 70 weeks. Which tells us the time that the israelites have to repent before the Messiah comes. it would seem once Jesus has made his sacrifice, that we have complete forgiveness. But theres probably many interpretions of this scripture. And different translated versions of it as well.

I have heard of quite a few that dont make any sense! But thats only when I start reading maybe some random website of someones opinions or a church doctrine instead of just sticking to the Bible and asking God for help undesrtanding it. 'Western readings' are very prevalent in christian literature, I mean we have a christian bookstore right in my home town and almost all the publications come from the US. And so they will talk about stuff thats pretty alien to how most of the world lives, let alone the middle east mileu in which Jesus lived and died.
Click to expand...

Here is a book you might find illuminating:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bullinger+number+in+scripture+pdf
 
Ok interesting it does say 70 souls were the children of Israel that came into Egypt. The house of Jacob. So if you were to forgive every child and grandchild of Israel, you would do it seventy times.
 
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