How should we view ourselves?

[Juk]

When I pray to God for repentance of a certain (HIGHLY annoying) sin, I usually call myself a wicked man, or a wicked person, anything in that line. Even though I don't have the verses to back me up, I'm pretty sure that the Bible does not want us to view ourselves like this, because as born again Christians, we are no longer wicked. So when we sin and in general, how should we view ourselves?

Phalanx.

 

[Lanolin]

Just say to God we were wrong and that we wont do it again.
God does know we are human and has given us grace able to keep us from sin.
Not sure what you mean how we should view ourselves..you are still a christian but sin is keeping you apart from God. Dont beat yourself up about it, ask God for wisdom how to keep from sin. Jesus didnt die for nothing.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

When I pray to God for repentance of a certain (HIGHLY annoying) sin, I usually call myself a wicked man, or a wicked person, anything in that line. Even though I don't have the verses to back me up, I'm pretty sure that the Bible does not want us to view ourselves like this, because as born again Christians, we are no longer wicked. So when we sin and in general, how should we view ourselves?

Phalanx.

So which is it you or the body of troops that has the need of repenting there dear ol Juk ?
You need to start seeing your self as God does and this would be as His word says. You also might seek Him on some strength in order to NOT have this same ol sin over and over.
You will not ever move God acting like some ol saved by grace just poor ol me wretched man.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Juk]

So which is it you or the body of troops that has the need of repenting there dear ol Juk ?
You need to start seeing your self as God does and this would be as His word says. You also might seek Him on some strength in order to NOT have this same ol sin over and over.
You will not ever move God acting like some ol saved by grace just poor ol me wretched man.
Blessings
Jim

I have started to rebuke the sin whenever it comes up, and I did ask God several times to help me. I know that trusting in God is better than trusting in men. I have personal experience.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I have started to rebuke the sin whenever it comes up, and I did ask God several times to help me. I know that trusting in God is better than trusting in men. I have personal experience.

Personal experience ? as in commanding the troops ?

 

[Cturtle]

When I pray to God for repentance of a certain (HIGHLY annoying) sin, I usually call myself a wicked man, or a wicked person, anything in that line. Even though I don't have the verses to back me up, I'm pretty sure that the Bible does not want us to view ourselves like this, because as born again Christians, we are no longer wicked. So when we sin and in general, how should we view ourselves?

Phalanx.

After we repent We should view ourselves forgiven and restored back into right standing with The Father. While we are in the middle of the sin, we should remember that God still loves us, and that He still calls us His child (it's called grace). Yes we tripped over the log in the road, but that does not mean that we are thrown into the lions den to be devoured. It means we should be running very quickly into The Father's arms to repent, so that He can restore our right standing because of the Blood that Jesus shed on the cross.

Something that you have to remember is that Jesus died and defeated the control of sin over our lives. So the sin cannot take place unless we allow it. And if we have allowed sin to take place in our lives...that is what opens the door for the devil to haunt us with the fear of God not accepting us, because we made a boo boo...even if we willfully did it.

Sin comes because of the pressure that the devil places on us. Sometimes it is heavy pressure, and sometimes he catches us off guard, and trips us up with no pressure at all. He is the one that tempts us with worldly, desires and the lust (or reaction) of the flesh. The devils main desire is to steal the Word of God from your mind. And if he can so it just by tripping you up with sin....he will.

 

[Juk]

Personal experience ? as in commanding the troops ?

No, but once, I was wanting to learn how to tune out people because they are annoying. And I really wanted to look it up. But I refused to. I wanted to trust in God. So I ended up forgetting about it. But yesterday, when I was listening to music, God showed me some amazing things that I can do with my mind, such as tuning people out, thinking while reading, and stopping my thinking through speech (thank you Cturtle for the last one). Also, the last one was not yesterday, but the day before.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

When I pray to God for repentance of a certain (HIGHLY annoying) sin, I usually call myself a wicked man, or a wicked person, anything in that line. Even though I don't have the verses to back me up, I'm pretty sure that the Bible does not want us to view ourselves like this, because as born again Christians, we are no longer wicked. So when we sin and in general, how should we view ourselves?

Phalanx.

But we are sinners. Christ redeemed us of original sin but we still commit our own personal sins. We're still wicked in that sense.

We should view ourselves exactly as we are: Sinners who still need a savior. Be meek and humble to God...be reverent. Remember that you are no big shot. But also remember that you are loved. That's how we should all view ourselves.

The important point of it is that we shouldn't contradict God. We should love ourselves but recognize that we aren't above Him nor should we place ourselves above what we are...and it's false humility to place yourself below what you are either -- that would be despair.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

But we are sinners. Christ redeemed us of original sin but we still commit our own personal sins. We're still wicked in that sense.

We should view ourselves exactly as we are: Sinners who still need a savior. Be meek and humble to God...be reverent. Remember that you are no big shot. But also remember that you are loved. That's how we should all view ourselves.

The important point of it is that we shouldn't contradict God. We should love ourselves but recognize that we aren't above Him nor should we place ourselves above what we are...and it's false humility to place yourself below what you are either -- that would be despair.

No Disrespect here but how can this be true - We are told in scripture to NOT be sin Minded. If we see our selves as sinners then we go against this scripturte - No my friend it is much better to simply see us how God see's us and learn to walk in the spirit so we will not walk in the flesh.

Who is fed more in you ? The flesh man or the spirit man ? Who ever you feed more will dominate over the other and take charge. For we have been redeemed from our sinful nature - however this does not say it is a cake walk and we sit back and do nothing. No my friend it is a full time job and feeding the spirit is your duty or work.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Siloam]

As I recommended in another thread, I think you need to concentrate on uplifting ideas.

As your thoughts are more and more of things that make you a better young man, the other things will have a smaller hold on your life.

When confronted with sin that you cannot find the power in yourself to overcome, sometimes you need to not think too much about it (for a period). The enemy uses our sin against us to make us doubt the reality of our being a child of the Lord. Concentrating on sin is playing the enemy's game according to his rules. You need to play the game the Lord has set for you, trusting Him to guide you through. By not letting your failure over sin to be a big thing in your thoughts, you make room for other more edifying thoughts. This will help you to let the Lord give you strength to overcome according to His plan for you.

If you are not yet the young man you will become, remember that the Lord is not finished building your character.Be patient and remember that in life, perfection under the Lord is an ongoing activity, not a static state righteousness. If you cannot be victorious in avoiding sin, be victorious over it by confessing it to the Lord.

Allow yourself to grow. Give yourself the best chance you can by surrounding yourself with edifying activities and thoughts.

As far as how you view yourself, view yourself as a child of God. You are important enough that the Lord shed His blood for you,

 

[LysanderShapiro]

No Disrespect here but how can this be true - We are told in scripture to NOT be sin Minded. If we see our selves as sinners then we go against this scripturte - No my friend it is much better to simply see us how God see's us and learn to walk in the spirit so we will not walk in the flesh.

Who is fed more in you ? The flesh man or the spirit man ? Who ever you feed more will dominate over the other and take charge. For we have been redeemed from our sinful nature - however this does not say it is a cake walk and we sit back and do nothing. No my friend it is a full time job and feeding the spirit is your duty or work.

God Bless
Jim

Hi Jim -- I think you may have misunderstood me. From what you wrote, it looks like you thought I was suggesting "Hey, we're sinners -- we may as well go with that." If that's the impression you got, let me clarify...

...We're told in Scripture to sin no more, but we're also told that we are all sinners, through our nature and our inheritance of original sin. Of course being a sinner doesn't mean that we have a license to sin and disobey. God sees us in two ways: 1) how we are -- sinners, and 2) how we wants us to be -- holy. The point is to be that second thing entirely and reject sin.

I don't think you were suggesting that we aren't sinners. It sounds like you were saying that we are to NOT sin. If that's what you meant, we're both on board.

Indeed. From dust you came to dust you shall return. Way may not die martyrs, but at the very least, we should live as martyrs.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Hi Jim -- I think you may have misunderstood me. From what you wrote, it looks like you thought I was suggesting "Hey, we're sinners -- we may as well go with that." If that's the impression you got, let me clarify...


...We're told in Scripture to sin no more, but we're also told that we are all sinners, through our nature and our inheritance of original sin. Of course being a sinner doesn't mean that we have a license to sin and disobey. God sees us in two ways: 1) how we are -- sinners, and 2) how we wants us to be -- holy. The point is to be that second thing entirely and reject sin.


I don't think you were suggesting that we aren't sinners. It sounds like you were saying that we are to NOT sin. If that's what you meant, we're both on board.


Indeed. From dust you came to dust you shall return. Way may not die martyrs, but at the very least, we should live as martyrs.

LysanderShapiro Greetings,
Well let me put it another way then -
All of us are born into sin and have a sin nature -
Jesus REDEEMED us of this sin nature -
Scripture tells us to NOT be sin minded -
If Jesus set you free from perversion will you still call your self a pervert ?
If Jesus set you free from drugs will you still see your self as a junkie ?

So since Jesus set us free from the sin nature why would we see our selves still as a sinner?
If you want to be healthy you see your self as healthy and do what ever it takes to get there. You do not see your self sickly and try to become healthy.

You can not grow past your thinking - your thinking orders who you are and what you do and how you do it and how you see things. Scripture tells us to RE-NEW THE MIND ...Why ? Because our thinking is wrong. We need to think Like God - Hence renewing our minds or thinking unto Gods written word.

To be sin minded is not simply being a sinner or doing sinful things. No Brother sin minded is also when we see our selves as a sinner or see us sinning or falling into a sin for we have before. We will always follow through unto our thinking.

Christ shed His blood for us - we ARE REDEEMED from this old sin nature - does this mean it is only as a cute little saying to sound religious ? No Sir it is not - He destroyed the power of sin over us just as He destroyed THE YOKE OF ALL BONDAGES that we wore in the world. However we must do our part in this - just like every other promise of God - we have to activate them by simply living in the way His word says.

So we renew the mind - take every thought captive and make them submit unto God and His ways or word - we then learn to walk in the spirit and not the flesh.

Feeding the spirit man and starving the flesh will keep you able to walk a more pure and Holy life. If we miss the mark then we run to God through Christ Jesus Holding tightly to His Grace and repent and ask to be forgiven and get right back on track once again.

No where in this did God see us a sinner = so why should we ? God wants us to see our selves as He does and we do this by seeing our selves as His word says we are.

Romans 12:2 ....
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

All done through the Grace of God who maketh all grace abound to me. ( 2 Corinthians 9:8 )
All of us were as filthy rags and sinners - Jesus set us free from this - broke this power over us - redeemed us from this sin nature - Why would any one identify as the old nature in this New nature or life in Christ ?
This is more to the tune of what I was saying .....
God Bless my Friend
Jim

 

[LysanderShapiro]

LysanderShapiro Greetings,
Well let me put it another way then -
All of us are born into sin and have a sin nature -
Jesus REDEEMED us of this sin nature -
Scripture tells us to NOT be sin minded -
If Jesus set you free from perversion will you still call your self a pervert ?
If Jesus set you free from drugs will you still see your self as a junkie ?

So since Jesus set us free from the sin nature why would we see our selves still as a sinner?
If you want to be healthy you see your self as healthy and do what ever it takes to get there. You do not see your self sickly and try to become healthy.

You can not grow past your thinking - your thinking orders who you are and what you do and how you do it and how you see things. Scripture tells us to RE-NEW THE MIND ...Why ? Because our thinking is wrong. We need to think Like God - Hence renewing our minds or thinking unto Gods written word.

To be sin minded is not simply being a sinner or doing sinful things. No Brother sin minded is also when we see our selves as a sinner or see us sinning or falling into a sin for we have before. We will always follow through unto our thinking.

Christ shed His blood for us - we ARE REDEEMED from this old sin nature - does this mean it is only as a cute little saying to sound religious ? No Sir it is not - He destroyed the power of sin over us just as He destroyed THE YOKE OF ALL BONDAGES that we wore in the world. However we must do our part in this - just like every other promise of God - we have to activate them by simply living in the way His word says.

So we renew the mind - take every thought captive and make them submit unto God and His ways or word - we then learn to walk in the spirit and not the flesh.

Feeding the spirit man and starving the flesh will keep you able to walk a more pure and Holy life. If we miss the mark then we run to God through Christ Jesus Holding tightly to His Grace and repent and ask to be forgiven and get right back on track once again.

No where in this did God see us a sinner = so why should we ? God wants us to see our selves as He does and we do this by seeing our selves as His word says we are.

Romans 12:2 ....
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

All done through the Grace of God who maketh all grace abound to me. ( 2 Corinthians 9:8 )
All of us were as filthy rags and sinners - Jesus set us free from this - broke this power over us - redeemed us from this sin nature - Why would any one identify as the old nature in this New nature or life in Christ ?
This is more to the tune of what I was saying .....
God Bless my Friend
Jim

Jim, you're missing the point on something. Christ redeemed us from our original sin. What we inherited from Adam and Eve was washed away through our obedience to Christ.

As for our personal sin, what the Jews in ancient Israel used to do when they disobeyed God has been fulfilled so today we confess our wrongdoings instead.

But, even after our redemption, all of us still fall short sometimes...maybe very little sins, or maybe someone trips and falls hard. But even those who are extremely virtuous slip up now and then and sin because of their nature.

Wouldn't you say that once in awhile you sin even today after your redemption? Perhaps you misspeak to your wife for a moment or you look at a stranger in false judgment, catching yourself of course and realizing you should've thought something else. Sometimes I fall into these little sins, and then I have to display them to God in humbleness and sorrow. So while we are cleansed of our inherited sin, we still do commit personal sin.

Your Scripture quoting is on point. Though I don't agree with your interpretation.

 

[aha]

So when we sin and in general, how should we view ourselves?

what is that will be more helpful to get us going… to persevere, to hope…

Romans 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we havea]'>[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, you're missing the point on something. Christ redeemed us from our original sin. What we inherited from Adam and Eve was washed away through our obedience to Christ.

As for our personal sin, what the Jews in ancient Israel used to do when they disobeyed God has been fulfilled so today we confess our wrongdoings instead.

But, even after our redemption, all of us still fall short sometimes...maybe very little sins, or maybe someone trips and falls hard. But even those who are extremely virtuous slip up now and then and sin because of their nature.

Wouldn't you say that once in awhile you sin even today after your redemption? Perhaps you misspeak to your wife for a moment or you look at a stranger in false judgment, catching yourself of course and realizing you should've thought something else. Sometimes I fall into these little sins, and then I have to display them to God in humbleness and sorrow. So while we are cleansed of our inherited sin, we still do commit personal sin.

Your Scripture quoting is on point. Though I don't agree with your interpretation.

LysanderShapiro Hello,
I am going to reply in this manner for I am about to leave for the day but wanted to get something back to you. I will use blue ink here for me.


Jim, you're missing the point on something. Christ redeemed us from our original sin. What we inherited from Adam and Eve was washed away through our obedience to Christ.
What we inherited from the fall is a "sin nature" we are all born with this "sin nature"
We have been redeemed of this "sin nature"

As for our personal sin, what the Jews in ancient Israel used to do when they disobeyed God has been fulfilled so today we confess our wrongdoings instead.
What the jews did way back when is there best with out the Blood of Christ and with out the new covenant we have through Christ Jesus our lord.
Exactly as I said we have 1 john 1:9 to count on and we dwell in His Grace

But, even after our redemption, all of us still fall short sometimes...maybe very little sins, or maybe someone trips and falls hard. But even those who are extremely virtuous slip up now and then and sin because of their nature.

As I said Brother we can miss it here or there - we have Grace to grab a hold of - we repent and seek His forgiveness and move on. The Key is GRACE Brother - In this Grace we are not seen as sinners - and we should not see us as sinners either - well unless you throw out Gods way and go live a life of sin and evil .

Wouldn't you say that once in awhile you sin even today after your redemption? Perhaps you misspeak to your wife for a moment or you look at a stranger in false judgment, catching yourself of course and realizing you should've thought something else. Sometimes I fall into these little sins, and then I have to display them to God in humbleness and sorrow. So while we are cleansed of our inherited sin, we still do commit personal sin.

Making a mistake or missing it some place does not make us a sinner or a sinning man.
It is through ther blood of Christ which has brought us into Great Grace from God our Father. We can make a mistake or sin but it is not who we are.
The word has seperated us from the world. I weill write more on that tonight. Got lots to say there.
Your Scripture quoting is on point. Though I don't agree with your interpretation.
Thank You Brother - I wont use them with out first gaining some spiritual insight on them. Now I did not just say I know it all - LOL - There is to much of thast going on in this world. People using their own person views and human understanding of things to dictate what God is saying.... (( This is NOT directed to you brother or any one else for that matter. All you have to do is look around and you can see it.))

You have a very wonderful and blessed day and I am looking forward to more fellowship with you. It is nice to be able to go back and forth with out having feelings hurt or getting things twisted and so forth - It is a nice time with you. Thank YOU !!
God Bless
Jim

 

[LysanderShapiro]

LysanderShapiro Hello,
I am going to reply in this manner for I am about to leave for the day but wanted to get something back to you. I will use blue ink here for me.


Jim, you're missing the point on something. Christ redeemed us from our original sin. What we inherited from Adam and Eve was washed away through our obedience to Christ.
What we inherited from the fall is a "sin nature" we are all born with this "sin nature"
We have been redeemed of this "sin nature"

As for our personal sin, what the Jews in ancient Israel used to do when they disobeyed God has been fulfilled so today we confess our wrongdoings instead.
What the jews did way back when is there best with out the Blood of Christ and with out the new covenant we have through Christ Jesus our lord.
Exactly as I said we have 1 john 1:9 to count on and we dwell in His Grace

But, even after our redemption, all of us still fall short sometimes...maybe very little sins, or maybe someone trips and falls hard. But even those who are extremely virtuous slip up now and then and sin because of their nature.

As I said Brother we can miss it here or there - we have Grace to grab a hold of - we repent and seek His forgiveness and move on. The Key is GRACE Brother - In this Grace we are not seen as sinners - and we should not see us as sinners either - well unless you throw out Gods way and go live a life of sin and evil .

Wouldn't you say that once in awhile you sin even today after your redemption? Perhaps you misspeak to your wife for a moment or you look at a stranger in false judgment, catching yourself of course and realizing you should've thought something else. Sometimes I fall into these little sins, and then I have to display them to God in humbleness and sorrow. So while we are cleansed of our inherited sin, we still do commit personal sin.

Making a mistake or missing it some place does not make us a sinner or a sinning man.
It is through ther blood of Christ which has brought us into Great Grace from God our Father. We can make a mistake or sin but it is not who we are.
The word has seperated us from the world. I weill write more on that tonight. Got lots to say there.
Your Scripture quoting is on point. Though I don't agree with your interpretation.
Thank You Brother - I wont use them with out first gaining some spiritual insight on them. Now I did not just say I know it all - LOL - There is to much of thast going on in this world. People using their own person views and human understanding of things to dictate what God is saying.... (( This is NOT directed to you brother or any one else for that matter. All you have to do is look around and you can see it.))

You have a very wonderful and blessed day and I am looking forward to more fellowship with you. It is nice to be able to go back and forth with out having feelings hurt or getting things twisted and so forth - It is a nice time with you. Thank YOU !!
God Bless
Jim

Thanks for sharing, Jim. We don't see eye-to-eye here. I appreciate your responses, even if we disagree.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Thanks for sharing, Jim. We don't see eye-to-eye here. I appreciate your responses, even if we disagree.

Well ? Lets talk about the difference in how we see it.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Well ? Lets talk about the difference in how we see it.

I think we have. Do you think we will get to the bottom of it when we both hold such different doctrinal beliefs? We'd have to get into the subject of confession, mortal and venial sins, loss of salvation, etc. etc. Things that neither of us agree on.

You used Scripture and so did I (the same passages even). It's a difference of interpretation based on our theological beliefs, not as lack of Scripture.

I am more than happy to discuss, but we are going to have to get into doctrine and by doing that, we're going to begin to break forum rules. So I am happy to discuss in a private discussion, but we can't do it in forum space, otherwise we'll either break rules to get to the bottom of it or we won't address the inevitable.

 

[Big Moose]

Here may be some helpful scripture:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

Philippians 2: 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

Ephesians 2:
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Finally, Galatians 6 (NLT)
2 Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important.
4 Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else. 5 For we are each responsible for our own conduct.
6 Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them.
7 Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. 8 Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit. 9 So let’s not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don’t give up. 10 Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith.