How would you understand 'and then will all Israel be saved?"
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
- Start date
That phrase in in Romans 11:26. Actually it says.......... “All Israel will be saved.”
The lie of the false teaching of replacement theology says that the Church has completely replaced Israel and will inherit God’s promises to Israel; the covenants, then, will be fulfilled only in a spiritual sense. In other words, replacement theology teaches that Israel will not inherit the actual land of Israel; the Church is the “new Israel,” and ethnic Israel is forever excluded from the promises—the Jews will not inherit the Promised Land as Jews per se.
However, the contextual and literal approach speak of future Israel which depicts Israel as distinct from the Church:
the “natural branches” are the Jews, and the “wild branches” are the Gentiles.
The “olive tree” is the collective people of God. The “natural branches” (Jews) are “cut off” the tree for unbelief, and the “wild branches” (believing Gentiles) are grafted in. This has the effect of making the Jews “jealous” and then drawing them to faith in Christ, so they might be “grafted in” again and receive their promised inheritance.
So, when Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Savior, their Messiah, in the end times.
After Israel is spiritually saved and restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth after Armageddon.
Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth as seen in Isaiah 11:12; 62:10.
The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated that Ezekiel 37:1–14 talked about.. As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home:
Ez. 37:14.......“I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land”.
I am a post tribulation premil Covenant theology guy, and agree that the Jews will as a people have a plan and purpose for God, as the Great tribulation will have Yahweh save them out to be His peculiar people once again at Second Coming event, when all Jews still alive shall "meet their God" and Israel the nation be reborn again to God, but that has not yet happened
You are correct in that "IT has not happened yet".
That is the whole point of the Tribulation Peroid!
You said that you are a "post tribulation premil Covenant theology guy"".
Posttribulationism teaches that the Rapture occurs at the end, or near the end, of the Tribulation. At that time, the church will meet Christ in the air and then return to earth for the commencement of Christ’s Kingdom on earth. In other words, the Rapture and Christ’s Second Coming (to set up His Kingdom) happen almost simultaneously. According to this view, the church goes through the entire seven-year Tribulation.
One strength of posttribulationism is that Jesus, in His extended discourse on the end times, says He will return after a “great tribulation” in Matt. 24: 21-29 but it must be noted that the CONTEXT of that Scripture is totally focused on The Jews and NOT the church in any way. At the time that was written, the church did not even exist!!!!!
Now, I do not speak to you to try and change your mind as I am sure you have thought your position out carefully. I only say to you as a friend and collogue, is that there are several glaring weaknesses in your position.
One weakness of posttribulationism is the clear teaching of Scripture that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God which is what God says in Romans 8:1. While some judgments during the Tribulation specifically target the unsaved, many other judgments, such as the earthquakes, falling stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved equally.
Thus, if believers go through the Tribulation, they will experience the wrath of God, which then is in contradiction of Romans 8:1.
Another weakness is a difficulty in explaining the absence of the word church in all biblical passages related to the tribulation. Even in Rev. 4-21, the lengthiest description of the tribulation in all of Scripture, the word church never appears.
So by that fact, Posttribulationists must assume that the word saints in Rev. 4-21 means the church, although a different Greek word is used.
And a final weakness of the posttribulational view is shared by the other two theories: namely, the Bible does not give an explicit time line concerning future events. The view YOU have accepted does the exact opposite!
Again, I am not trying to convert YOU, but there are lots of people who read what we post and I am speaking to those people.
Actually, I was once a firm holder to the classic Pretrib premil camp viewpoint, and what got to me was that the wrath of God was not over the entire Great tribulation period, but seemed to be dropping right after the midpoint, after the 2 witnesses are killed off and then raised up, so first half seems to be wrath of man, midpoint on direct and divine wrath of God, so maybe should be Midtrib then?
And do see the main purpose of Gret tribulation being to prepare national israel to meet their God, the Lord Jesus at His Second Coming.
I am very sure of a premil Second Coming, not definite now as to if pre/mis/post though
You are correct. That 3 1nd 1/2 time frame of peace is resulting from the SEVEN Year peace treaty they entered into with the Antichrist, which promised them protection, independence, and security. A Peace Treaty ONLY comes from a conflict. So we can now know tat there will be a War going on in which Russia and the Kings of the East will be involved in.
The first of the seven seals is symbolized by a white horse – peace!
The 1st half of the Tribulation Peroid is peace. At the start of the Tribulation, the Jewish people will have been re-gathered to their land by the Lord Himself (Deuteronomy 30:4-5; Ezekiel 20:40-44; 34:11-14; 36:22-36; 37:1-14). That is taking place right now!!!!!
They will be returning in disobedience, for they will still be an unbelieving nation.
IMHO, the reason for the 3 and 1/2 years of peace is to allow the TWO witnesses for preach the gospel. The 144 K Jewish men will hear and be saved and when the TWO Witnesses are killed, those 144K will be the voice of God to Israel.
That is why the midpoint view actually might be correct, as we would be raised up with those 2 witnesses, and then the wrath of God for last 3 1/2 years then come upon the earth
I would not argue your point.
However, midtribulationism interprets “wrath” as only referring to the second half of the tribulation—specifically, the bowl judgments. When that is done, it limits the word in such a way seems unwarranted, however. Surely the terrible judgments contained in the seals and trumpets—including famine, poisoned rivers, a darkened moon, bloodshed, earthquakes, and torment—could also be considered the wrath of God.
The midtribulationism position you are choosing places the rapture in Revelation 11, prior to the start of the great tribulation. There are Three problems with this placement in the chronology of Revelation.
#1. The only occurrence of the term “great tribulation” in the entire book of Revelation is in 7:14, before the opening of the seventh seal.
#2. The only reference to a “great day of wrath” is in Rev. 6:17 during the events of the sixth seal.
Whats the point???? Both of these references come too early for a midtribulational rapture, which is timed according to the seventh trumpet.
#3. The Bible does not give an explicit timeline concerning future events. The midtribulation would do exactly that!
That is why I am very confident that the end times will be on a premil basis, but the timing of the Rapture event itself, God only knows
2 who I have read that held to midtrib were J Oliver Buswell and Gleason Archer
Taken in context, it's at Jesus' second coming, when all His Israel members on earth, will be resurrected to rise and meet Him in the air. At that time, all with Him there, are eternally saved, and all on earth are counted as unbelievers and unsaved.
In context of Romans 11:
Rom 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
1. This is Jesus' second coming from heavenly Sion.
2. There will no longer be only a remnant of saved Israel, among those called Israel. All that are called Israel, shall be Israel of God in deed and in truth.
Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
2. All saved in Christ Jesus are now the Israel of God, grafted into His saved olive tree. The branches are now both natural Jews and Gentiles, and there will be no more dead branches in His body at His return.
Jhn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Mat 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
All Israel of God shall be of God in deed, and eternally saved with Him in the air...
i certainly don't believe in a universal salvation.. i guess it would depend on what we consider all israel the remnant would be more close ..
Those who are and remain in Christ will be saved.
Romans 2
28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. 29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter.
Galatians 3
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 2
28 For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. 29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter.
Galatians 3
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Major, i want to publicly thank you for the study you have done in the Bible. It is so refreshing to see a person who understands the simple truths of Scripture. I really appreciate your posting out here. Keep posting, I want you to know that many people are benefiting from your knowledge of the Scriptures. Thanks for your discipline in studying the Scripture.
What a wonderful blessing to open my day!
Thank you my friend.
At this stage of my life, trying to give out the simple truth of the Word of God on the internet is about all I can do and it is wonderful to receive your message!
However.....the Scriptures do not suggest that there are "others" who will be resurrected with the TWO witnesses.
I do understand how we would like to believe that but......we must be careful to not read into the Scriptures what we want to see happen.
You see, "if" we have a bias or a preference on a topic and we see in the Scriptures that there are TWO Witnesses resurrected, we must fight the urge to then think that that event triggers a mid-tribulation Rapture when it is not specifically told to us in those same Scriptures.
True, was not stating that I hold to that view, but could see how others such as a Gleason Archer did find support for such a view by the scriptures
What is your view on the Second Coming?