Dear friends
Jesus said ,.. i am the way, the truth and life John 14:6
John 17:17 says,, Thy word is truth
Here i like to ask all of you
God is truth ,,

So many churches and preachers are out side of Truth
so if any church or preacher is not following the biblical standards , if they practice the false doctrine or false gospel. what is out responsibility? Jesus cleaned the temple when they did wrong in temple. Jesus expressed his angry too.. Please share your thoughts ,, if some one is not following the truth and fundamentals,,
1. what to do ? still need to continue the fellowship?
2. what to do ? maintaining silence without doing some thing ?
3. or we need to work to preach and truth to them?
please share your replies as Lord permits..
 
Dear friends
Jesus said ,.. i am the way, the truth and life John 14:6
John 17:17 says,, Thy word is truth
Here i like to ask all of you
God is truth ,,

So many churches and preachers are out side of Truth
so if any church or preacher is not following the biblical standards , if they practice the false doctrine or false gospel. what is out responsibility? Jesus cleaned the temple when they did wrong in temple. Jesus expressed his angry too.. Please share your thoughts ,, if some one is not following the truth and fundamentals,,
1. what to do ? still need to continue the fellowship?
2. what to do ? maintaining silence without doing some thing ?
3. or we need to work to preach and truth to them?
please share your replies as Lord permits..
Can you provide some specific examples of the ungodly practices and situations to which you are referring?
 
Can you provide some specific examples of the ungodly practices and situations to which you are referring?
Yes I don't know what is happening in your country.. but i can say what is happening in our country.. They are preaching prosperity gospel, they are ignoring the holy commune, They are selling coconut oil as holy oil, They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates, They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil, They are giving false prophecies, they are only preaching healings for flesh... They are adding many many false practices.. They are preaching for 40 days fasting for salvation. And many many brother.. They are encouraging people to follow the works (They are ignoring the word Eph 2:8) .. Dreams, visions for salvation, i hope we can chat once to talk and discuss more and more ..
They are saying give money and get blessings.. Not preaching the gospel to born again.. Just preaching prosperity gospel.
Thank you for asking
 
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Yes I don't know what is happening in your country.. but i can say what is happening in our country.. They are preaching prosperity gospel, they are ignoring the holy commune, They are selling coconut oil as holy oil, They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates, They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil, They are giving false prophecies, they are only preaching healings for flesh... They are adding many many false practices.. They are preaching for 40 days fasting for salvation. And many many brother.. They are encouraging people to follow the works (They are ignoring the word Eph 2:8) .. Dreams, visions for salvation, i hope we can chat once to talk and discuss more and more ..
They are saying give money and get blessings.. Not preaching the gospel to born again.. Just preaching prosperity gospel.
Thank you for asking
WOW!šŸ˜®
 
Dear friends
Jesus said ,.. i am the way, the truth and life John 14:6
John 17:17 says,, Thy word is truth
Here i like to ask all of you
God is truth ,,

So many churches and preachers are out side of Truth
so if any church or preacher is not following the biblical standards , if they practice the false doctrine or false gospel. what is out responsibility? Jesus cleaned the temple when they did wrong in temple. Jesus expressed his angry too.. Please share your thoughts ,, if some one is not following the truth and fundamentals,,
1. what to do ? still need to continue the fellowship?
2. what to do ? maintaining silence without doing some thing ?
3. or we need to work to preach and truth to them?
please share your replies as Lord permits..
When the Methodist church in the UK decided to make certain changes recently I with others voted with their feet a church that had between 80-120 worshipers on a Sunday rarely have 10-20 attending morning services so sad
 
So many churches and preachers are out side of Truth
so if any church or preacher is not following the biblical standards , if they practice the false doctrine or false gospel. what is out responsibility? Jesus cleaned the temple when they did wrong in temple. Jesus expressed his angry too.. Please share your thoughts ,, if some one is not following the truth and fundamentals,,
1. what to do ? still need to continue the fellowship?
2. what to do ? maintaining silence without doing some thing ?
3. or we need to work to preach and truth to them?
please share your replies as Lord permits..

Frankly, you're actually addressing the institutional model, which is not God-breathed as was the temple in Jerusalem. The institutional model is therefore purely man-made given that the Lord now indwells His people, not dead buildings. The people in those institutions, who come from all walks and stripes of life, they have the right to form organizations and hire the religious hirelings they so choose to hire to fill whatever role the people supporting that organization wants for themselves. Those things make the people feel good, and even assume that they are closer to God in those things, all of which will perish with this earth and universe.

The temple, on the other hand, was a special place...a house of prayer. Its dimensions were laid down by the Lord, not man. It's purpose was also established by the Lord. It was the place where His presence dwelt. The dead buildings of modern and historic institutions, although take top priority in it's supporter's so-called "giving unto the Lord," again, all of which will burn up with this world, they are where people go to feel as if that is how they get closer to God, and that is as it is.

To go into any one of those places and try to take from those people the freedoms they have in Christ, even in forming dead institutions that practice the programmatic approach to what they see as the "gathering of believers," that's not a wise thing to do, and I have grave doubts the Lord would approve of the type of cleansing that Jesus did in the temple commons among the pillars. That's nothing more than disrupting a public program and show. Many people are blessed by them...some of whom have Holy Spirit within them. If the ear-ticklers want to hear falsehoods, that's on them since the priesthood of the ancient model is no more.

One can run down the isle in a modern churchianity organization, yelling "Ichabod, Ichabod," and for what? Those people are NOT going to stand up and walk out with you. They are there to support the falsehoods, and assaulting their ears with lamentations that shine the light of ungodliness upon the numerous false teachings and practices, you would only succeed in being removed by the ushers...poste haste.

The best thing any of us can do is to be good stewards over the souls to whom we minister through discipleship, and leave all other ministers and their tickling ear zombies stuck in perpetual sheepdom alone. You can try to speak truth to the ministers in those things, but rest assured that those who have letters attached to their names are generally not going to listen to you or me if the Spirit of the Lord is not opening them up to being receptive to a message of correction and rebuke.

A minister years ago once told me that I MUST introduce to him any other minister who would dare claim that there is not temptation toward pride for being the guy who rules a pulpit each week for preaching to the audience so that he could call such a man a liar and a cheat. Having been in the pulpit myself, I could certainly attest to that temptation. Those who do not give in to that, I admire and stand beside. The rest...

So, such energy and zeal for truth is better expended in reaching the lost through your own efforts in Christ and raising them up to spiritual maturity without those institutions, unless you can find one as a supplement that is centered squarely on the purity of the word of God, and those are becoming increasingly rare. I found one up in Wichita, KS, and it was so packed, there were people standing along the sides to hear the preacher there because the vast majority of the other institutions in that city and all others were/are pretty much polluted with the leaven of liberal, social, cultural and progressive theologies. That is exactly the message I heard from some in that grouping, and my wife any I never went back there because she simply cannot handle how horribly uncomfortable the pews are for her lower back, which is filled with hardware from fusions.

So, we gather with others in homes where there is far more comfortable seating.

Live and let live, my friend.

MM
 
Frankly, you're actually addressing the institutional model, which is not God-breathed as was the temple in Jerusalem. The institutional model is therefore purely man-made given that the Lord now indwells His people, not dead buildings. The people in those institutions, who come from all walks and stripes of life, they have the right to form organizations and hire the religious hirelings they so choose to hire to fill whatever role the people supporting that organization wants for themselves. Those things make the people feel good, and even assume that they are closer to God in those things, all of which will perish with this earth and universe.
This is a profoundly sad but TRUE statement about what is being taught as modern day Christianity.

Notice you said the word INSTITUTION which is exactly what your above statement points out.

The God-breathed body of Christ ( The bride of Christ... the CHURCH ) is actually a living body... and most powerful. Sadly... we are not seeing this kind of CHURCH yet.
 
Church is not traditional material.. Church is the body of living souls, I don't feel for any person comment,.. I know what is what in Christian society,, I am also welcoming all kinds of comments,, but i am saying,, here ,, i said fact,, if you are believing or not it is not matter for me,, but i am saying once again , what i said is truth,..
Please go and read bible to see the truth,,
Church is church which is the body of living souls,
 
Frankly, you're actually addressing the institutional model, which is not God-breathed as was the temple in Jerusalem.
You are welcome to share your faith,, but i am glad to say i am believing what i need to believe.. did you know the old Jerusalem is always destroyed by people and God too,, but the New Jerusalem is never destroyed by any human or God. You need to learn on New Jerusalem (which is compared to Church) ,,,
 
Brother IND, You asked what to do and gave 3 options. Number 3 is the only option in my opinion. You need to expose the lies and false teachings by preaching the Truth. Jesus did not live the high life nor did he ever teach a prosperity gospel. He taught that He is the truth the way and the life and that there is no other name by which one can be saved, salvation is a free gift and not by any works of our own. Jesus is all that is needed and nothing we can add is of any value towards salvation.Correct with love and compassion.
 
You are welcome to share your faith,, but i am glad to say i am believing what i need to believe.. did you know the old Jerusalem is always destroyed by people and God too,, but the New Jerusalem is never destroyed by any human or God. You need to learn on New Jerusalem (which is compared to Church) ,,,

Hmm. I thought I was addressing your question about all those man-made churches out there that are teaching falsehoods. It's a given that the (C)hurch (apital "C") is all those who follow Christ Jesus whether they choose to be members of man-made church organizations or not.

So, please clarify for me, if you will, as to if you were or were not addressing the institutional churches out there that teach falsehoods. The topic of your OP points directly at the institutional models of what most call their (c)hurch (small "c"). To me, there is indeed a difference. This is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of fact.

I eagerly await your clarifications.

MM
 
Yes I don't know what is happening in your country.. but i can say what is happening in our country.. They are preaching prosperity gospel, they are ignoring the holy commune, They are selling coconut oil as holy oil, They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates, They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil, They are giving false prophecies, they are only preaching healings for flesh... They are adding many many false practices.. They are preaching for 40 days fasting for salvation. And many many brother.. They are encouraging people to follow the works (They are ignoring the word Eph 2:8) .. Dreams, visions for salvation, i hope we can chat once to talk and discuss more and more ..
They are saying give money and get blessings.. Not preaching the gospel to born again.. Just preaching prosperity gospel.
Thank you for asking
please read this matter which is already posted,, please read this,,
I eagerly await your clarifications.
i am already replied to other person on same question,, please read this
 
Brother IND, You asked what to do and gave 3 options. Number 3 is the only option in my opinion. You need to expose the lies and false teachings by preaching the Truth. Jesus did not live the high life nor did he ever teach a prosperity gospel. He taught that He is the truth the way and the life and that there is no other name by which one can be saved, salvation is a free gift and not by any works of our own. Jesus is all that is needed and nothing we can add is of any value towards salvation.Correct with love and compassion.
Yes brother,, I agree with you ,, Now the preachers making people to depend on works ,, And they are just encouraging the people to depend on prosperity gospel. Yes our service must be with the love and serving mind. Preachers are leading their people to religion only,, True religion is completely depending on faith in Christ. Our life is epistle of Christ. People need to read our lives to see Jesus in our lives. I agree with you brother
 
lets be careful and not lump ALL so called institutional model, aka Churches as the same . yes the Church congregations has got some bad apples for preachers . God has a way of exposing for years the UMC has run rampant in support of same sex marriage and Gay pastors . the wheat finally started separating. there is new Methodist movement . leaving the umc not in good shape. there are those who are to say teh least antichurch assembly .


assembly our selves together is a Bible command there are God fearing Believing Bodies out there. my advice if one is in a Church teaching garbage . Get out asap dont let teh grass grow under your feet doing so
 
Brother IND, You asked what to do and gave 3 options. Number 3 is the only option in my opinion. You need to expose the lies and false teachings by preaching the Truth. Jesus did not live the high life nor did he ever teach a prosperity gospel. He taught that He is the truth the way and the life and that there is no other name by which one can be saved, salvation is a free gift and not by any works of our own. Jesus is all that is needed and nothing we can add is of any value towards salvation.Correct with love and compassion.
Yes brother,, I agree with you ,, Now the preachers making people to depend on works ,, And they are just encouraging the people to depend on prosperity gospel. Yes our service must be with the love and serving mind. Preachers are leading their people to religion only,, True religion is completely depending on faith in Christ. Our life is epistle of Christ. People need to read our lives to see Jesus in our lives. I agree with you brother
 
Dear friends
Jesus said ,.. i am the way, the truth and life John 14:6 John 17:17 says,, Thy word is truth Here i like to ask all of you God is truth ,,
So many churches and preachers are out side of Truth so if any church or preacher is not following the biblical standards , if they practice the false doctrine or false gospel. what is out responsibility? Jesus cleaned the temple when they did wrong in temple. Jesus expressed his angry too.. Please share your thoughts ,, if some one is not following the truth and fundamentals,, 1. what to do ? still need to continue the fellowship? 2. what to do ? maintaining silence without doing some thing ? 3. or we need to work to preach and truth to them? please share your replies as Lord permits..
Yes I don't know what is happening in your country.. but i can say what is happening in our country.. They are preaching prosperity gospel, they are ignoring the holy commune, They are selling coconut oil as holy oil, They are selling promise cards and salvation assurance certificates, They are selling Jordan river water as holy water, also selling the Israel country soil as holy soil, They are giving false prophecies, they are only preaching healings for flesh... They are adding many many false practices.. They are preaching for 40 days fasting for salvation. And many many brother.. They are encouraging people to follow the works (They are ignoring the word Eph 2:8) .. Dreams, visions for salvation, i hope we can chat once to talk and discuss more and more ..They are saying give money and get blessings.. Not preaching the gospel to born again.. Just preaching prosperity gospel.
Thank you for asking
Frankly, you're actually addressing the institutional model, which is not God-breathed as was the temple in Jerusalem. The institutional model is therefore purely man-made given that the Lord now indwells His people, not dead buildings. The people in those institutions, who come from all walks and stripes of life, they have the right to form organizations and hire the religious hirelings they so choose to hire to fill whatever role the people supporting that organization wants for themselves. Those things make the people feel good, and even assume that they are closer to God in those things, all of which will perish with this earth and universe.

The temple, on the other hand, was a special place...a house of prayer. Its dimensions were laid down by the Lord, not man. It's purpose was also established by the Lord. It was the place where His presence dwelt. The dead buildings of modern and historic institutions, although take top priority in it's supporter's so-called "giving unto the Lord," again, all of which will burn up with this world, they are where people go to feel as if that is how they get closer to God, and that is as it is.

To go into any one of those places and try to take from those people the freedoms they have in Christ, even in forming dead institutions that practice the programmatic approach to what they see as the "gathering of believers," that's not a wise thing to do, and I have grave doubts the Lord would approve of the type of cleansing that Jesus did in the temple commons among the pillars. That's nothing more than disrupting a public program and show. Many people are blessed by them...some of whom have Holy Spirit within them. If the ear-ticklers want to hear falsehoods, that's on them since the priesthood of the ancient model is no more.

One can run down the isle in a modern churchianity organization, yelling "Ichabod, Ichabod," and for what? Those people are NOT going to stand up and walk out with you. They are there to support the falsehoods, and assaulting their ears with lamentations that shine the light of ungodliness upon the numerous false teachings and practices, you would only succeed in being removed by the ushers...poste haste.

The best thing any of us can do is to be good stewards over the souls to whom we minister through discipleship, and leave all other ministers and their tickling ear zombies stuck in perpetual sheepdom alone. You can try to speak truth to the ministers in those things, but rest assured that those who have letters attached to their names are generally not going to listen to you or me if the Spirit of the Lord is not opening them up to being receptive to a message of correction and rebuke.

A minister years ago once told me that I MUST introduce to him any other minister who would dare claim that there is not temptation toward pride for being the guy who rules a pulpit each week for preaching to the audience so that he could call such a man a liar and a cheat. Having been in the pulpit myself, I could certainly attest to that temptation. Those who do not give in to that, I admire and stand beside. The rest...

So, such energy and zeal for truth is better expended in reaching the lost through your own efforts in Christ and raising them up to spiritual maturity without those institutions, unless you can find one as a supplement that is centered squarely on the purity of the word of God, and those are becoming increasingly rare. I found one up in Wichita, KS, and it was so packed, there were people standing along the sides to hear the preacher there because the vast majority of the other institutions in that city and all others were/are pretty much polluted with the leaven of liberal, social, cultural and progressive theologies. That is exactly the message I heard from some in that grouping, and my wife any I never went back there because she simply cannot handle how horribly uncomfortable the pews are for her lower back, which is filled with hardware from fusions.

So, we gather with others in homes where there is far more comfortable seating.

Live and let live, my friend.

MM

Hello Brother IND;

In your 3 points you ask, what to do? what to do? and need to work to preach the truth to them? You confessed you don't know what goes on in our country so I'd like to share one my perspectives that alludes to the 3 points.

Musicmaster offers the institutional model of the church based on the governance, or the way the "church on the hill" operates. There are so many examples so I'd like to pinpoint one of the downfalls of the governance in these times.

Persons who immigrate to another country like America and saying God sent me here to Pastor and plant a Church. It can happen and it's wonderful to see the Church blossom. On the other hand one can see by this individual's fruit that God didn't sent them to Pastor in America, instead seek a green card. There's nothing wrong with obtaining a green card but let's be truthful. It wasn't because God called this person to Pastor.

This is one of our biggest issues here in the SF Bay Area. I have seen this happen, it's brutally honest and the outcome is not pretty.

These persons who claim their calling institute programs that are not anointed, instead their services make actual reverence to God
secondary to the programs, venues and prayer requests (for new choir robes.) The institutional model in time loses the meaning of the upper room effect.

Then this escalates into a social gathering. God will not maintain silence to these happenings in His Church and will send His reinforcements to rebuke the false teachings in church.

The upper room was the first Church service in Acts 1 and had a significance of gathering for renewal, prayer only worship to God, singing, healing, Spiritual impact, evangelism and time for business (when Matthias replaced Judas.)

Now, not all institutional models of the Church are misguided. We still have many Smyrnas and Philadelphias that are doing mighty work for the Lord, and that is, one more person coming to Christ, one more person preaching and teaching and one more person serving in missions.


Let's keep praying for God's Church to get back on track.
 
The upper room was the first Church service in Acts 1 and had a significance of gathering for renewal, prayer only worship to God, singing, healing, Spiritual impact, evangelism and time for business (when Matthias replaced Judas.)
The upper room have the all spiritual governance ,, Apostles are ruled the whole believers group,, They have strong governance ,, if we see the Acts 5 th chapter,, the family who did the mistake in giving, Peter is rebuked them, immediately they died ,, The power of the ruling is strong in that early Church, Now the leaders of the Church is not showing the governance on spiritual lives but they are showing the governance on earning, self glory and self profits.. very sad ,,
 
Now, not all institutional models of the Church are misguided. We still have many Smyrnas and Philadelphias that are doing mighty work for the Lord, and that is, one more person coming to Christ, one more person preaching and teaching and one more person serving in missions.
In other view .. The early church has the clear management and clear governance.. They ruled the people to leave the sins and born again (to baptize) ,, They have clear teaching on riches, so they sold out the homes and lands and they gave to ministry. When they did mistakes there is strong warning and they rebuked the all people in early church. They have elderly ruling and services too.. Accountability is very clear in early Church.,. For me.. in our ministry we have the elders ruling, accountability on money, clear strong teaching to born again,.. Early church is the clear model church for whole generations..
 
These persons who claim their calling institute programs that are not anointed, instead their services make actual reverence to God secondary to the programs, venues and prayer requests (for new choir robes.) The institutional model in time loses the meaning of the upper room effect.

Then this escalates into a social gathering. God will not maintain silence to these happenings in His Church and will send His reinforcements to rebuke the false teachings in church.

The upper room was the first Church service in Acts 1 and had a significance of gathering for renewal, prayer only worship to God, singing, healing, Spiritual impact, evangelism and time for business (when Matthias replaced Judas.)

Now, not all institutional models of the Church are misguided. We still have many Smyrnas and Philadelphias that are doing mighty work for the Lord, and that is, one more person coming to Christ, one more person preaching and teaching and one more person serving in missions.


Let's keep praying for God's Church to get back on track.

Brother, you REALLY put your finger squarely on what I have observed so many times. The programmatic approach to the gathering will almost always stifle spontaneity and any organic expression of Christ as the Head over all, shoving Him out of the limelight into the side-shadows of importance so that "the show must go on."

It's interesting how in the times of Christ in the flesh on this earth, He went to the synagogues and stood up to read, which indicates that the local leadership didn't control, with an iron fist, against the allowance for the average, literate Jewish man to stand up, read in turn, and expound upon what was read. That speaks of a level of community that simply doesn't exist in modern traditions that date all the way back into the RCC and its priesthood -centric model of the program that magnifies the religious pageantry of ceremony. The god of order is magnified FAR beyond its mention in the scriptures. Most equate "order" with "program," as if the latter were God-breathed rather than man-made.

Wow. A dear sister in the Lord mentioned to me the other day how she so loves the "fellowship" of the services in her "church" of choice in the city. Rather than to challenge her sensibilities, I simply asked about the layout of the place, and she described it as the usual arrangement of chairs hooked together in rows, with everyone looking at the backs of other people's heads like any other audience form.

I held my peace given that she was/is so enthralled with her experiences there with their rock band, theatrics and all the other mumbo jumbo that she described. It's sad that she and so many like her know nothing about true, genuine, biblical fellowship. Most people shy away from that true form because of its inherent dangers to secret sins and lack of any real knowledge about the Bible due to surface, shallow studies on the part of most professing believers.

Thanks for sharing. Love you, bro.

MM
 
The upper room have the all spiritual governance ,, Apostles are ruled the whole believers group,, They have strong governance ,, if we see the Acts 5 th chapter,, the family who did the mistake in giving, Peter is rebuked them, immediately they died ,, The power of the ruling is strong in that early Church, Now the leaders of the Church is not showing the governance on spiritual lives but they are showing the governance on earning, self glory and self profits.. very sad ,,

Mistake in giving? No. They were struck dead for trying to lie to Holy Spirit. They could have kept all the proceeds and give none of it, but because they tried to lie by saying they had given it all, they were struck dead to keep that early Church from being tainted by such people.

MM
 
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