In Defense Of The Triunity

So Mario, you talk about being born again of the water and Spirit, but you can't tell us how you were born again, ...copy and paste is easy isn't it? Gene
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LOL. Gene, it is not all talk. I look back now and I can see how God was moving on my behalf even before I knew Him.
Please don't be offended if my walk sounds personal: but our walk should be personal to us all.

Beloved, I was "born again" the night the Lord God "showed" me all the sins I had ever committed. I knew then that He was
God, for no one else could know those things in me, but myself. It seems as real as I am writing you right now; as if I had a
direct line to God, and I told Him that I knew that I was going to hell...literally. I guess I "manned up" to my sins, and told
God that I deserved my punishment. I told Him that had I known that He was real, not that I wouldn't have sinned, but
perhaps I wouldn't have sinned so much! I told God that He could take my life that night and send me to my punishment; for that was what I deserved. And I said, "Before You take my life and send me to "hell". I want You to know one thing: I regret having offended You. Now do whatever you want with me" I expected God to take my life...and He did. But instead of
sending me to hell, the Lord God put me to sleep in an instant: I felt this very light "something", like a veil, descend and
covered me, and I lay down to sleep. And the Lord God gave me a dream of the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus.

I awoke from that dream, crying: and the only thing I knew was that Jesus died for my sins, and yours also. And that's what
I would testify. That the Lord Jesus had died for my sins, and the sins of the whole world. I was born again: it was given to
me to see my condition before God: and the kingdom of God was being revealed to me; but I was not not saved...yet.

I began my walk, but I was not told to stop. And I am walking still.
 
let's examine Jesus, God the Son. Let's stay very consistent on how we read the Word.

That verse shows a few things............. God sent his son in the last days to speak the Word. God appointed Jesus heir of all things through whom he made the Ages (Aion)......Worlds.
The Key word here is Through................... Everything the Father did was Through and for the Son of God. Your translation did a better Job than the KJV........... it's the Word dia which means for the sake of something, by reason of, through something else.

The KJV pulled a neat little trick to help a Trinity concept along. If you believe something is right, then you give it a little push.

All things were made through, for the sake of, and because of the Son.......... Nothing was made, that was not because of the Son, for the Son and through the Son.

dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that,

For by (through and because of, by reason that) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Col 1:16)

Every thing the Father did, was for, through, for the sake of, His Son.
Jesus the Word Part of God. Is Jesus just some Word?
(only if you want to stay inconsistent in understanding and translating to make a doctrine)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:1-2)

The Word is with God, Was God, The same and no different than God here from the beginning.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

If Jesus is the Word part of some god, then the Word would speak of himself and not what told to speak by commandment.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So, it needs translated like we normally would.
God speaks:
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

When God speaks, that is it. It will come to pass at the appointed time. Nothing can change that. God spoke, saying I declare the decree, the Lord has said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have i begotten thee.

God is speaking to the Son here, He is giving His son a (Earthly) Begotten decree.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(Joh 1:12-13)

John tells us through Jesus, He gives power to become a Son of God just like himself, Born of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)

John is not telling us the literal Word becomes flesh. John is telling us The Word came to pass and was Made into Flesh. What God Declared has now happened. Only Modelist and Oneness folks change their consistency in understanding that When God says something, it will come to pass.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Is Jesus God?

Well, I just gave the scripture that we also are given power to become Sons of God. Jesus is called God 3 times. One by Thomas, one by John and one by The Father Himself. All 3 times give a idea of not only God, but a God with authority.
There is only one LORD GOD.
That is scripture. One creator, One whom crucified the Son (Isa) One who Made all things.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:16)

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(Isa 53:10)

Just because there is only one Creator, One Lord God, One Savior who Gave his son. Nothing in scripture denotes there was no REAL SON.

The NT backs this up.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are two here. In fact the NT mentions both Father and Lord Jesus Christ together 31 times. we don't ignore 31 scriptures. If there was just ONE GOD, then it would have said that.

These Doctrines of Monotheism (One God) from men have made our minds to be blinded. They have made us to forget how to count, have made us over look Jesus was never called Lord God or creator.
It's when we Translate with a doctrine of man, we miss what the Word does say.

It also makes us dumb when the Word God is mentioned.

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:5-6)

One God the Father of whom are all things................ One Lord Jesus Christ by (through and because of)

2 here........... One whom all things were made.............. One through and because of all things were made. TWO

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus the Son of God, who has always been with the Father, Like the Father, One with the Father (As we are in him) from the start of time.

When we say there is ONE GOD..................... We deny one of them. It's the Antichrist that denies the Father and the Son. It was God the Son that came in the flesh.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Jesus Came as a man in the flesh............ Not God the Father incarnate. Anyone that says it was God the Creator, the Father is an Antichrist. It was God, His son that came, a Real son that He gave glory to before the World was even made.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(1Jn 4:3)

Not me.............. There are Two, Two Gods, to us as Paul said....... Father and Son. The rest that believe different are from the Antichrist, not my words, but scriptures.

Be blessed.
let's examine Jesus, God the Son. Let's stay very consistent on how we read the Word.

That verse shows a few things............. God sent his son in the last days to speak the Word. God appointed Jesus heir of all things through whom he made the Ages (Aion)......Worlds.
The Key word here is Through................... Everything the Father did was Through and for the Son of God. Your translation did a better Job than the KJV........... it's the Word dia which means for the sake of something, by reason of, through something else.

The KJV pulled a neat little trick to help a Trinity concept along. If you believe something is right, then you give it a little push.

All things were made through, for the sake of, and because of the Son.......... Nothing was made, that was not because of the Son, for the Son and through the Son.

dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that,

For by (through and because of, by reason that) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Col 1:16)

Every thing the Father did, was for, through, for the sake of, His Son.
Jesus the Word Part of God. Is Jesus just some Word?
(only if you want to stay inconsistent in understanding and translating to make a doctrine)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(Joh 1:1-2)

The Word is with God, Was God, The same and no different than God here from the beginning.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

If Jesus is the Word part of some god, then the Word would speak of himself and not what told to speak by commandment.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So, it needs translated like we normally would.
God speaks:
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

When God speaks, that is it. It will come to pass at the appointed time. Nothing can change that. God spoke, saying I declare the decree, the Lord has said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have i begotten thee.

God is speaking to the Son here, He is giving His son a (Earthly) Begotten decree.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
(Joh 1:12-13)

John tells us through Jesus, He gives power to become a Son of God just like himself, Born of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)

John is not telling us the literal Word becomes flesh. John is telling us The Word came to pass and was Made into Flesh. What God Declared has now happened. Only Modelist and Oneness folks change their consistency in understanding that When God says something, it will come to pass.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Is Jesus God?

Well, I just gave the scripture that we also are given power to become Sons of God. Jesus is called God 3 times. One by Thomas, one by John and one by The Father Himself. All 3 times give a idea of not only God, but a God with authority.
There is only one LORD GOD.
That is scripture. One creator, One whom crucified the Son (Isa) One who Made all things.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:16)

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
(Isa 53:10)

Just because there is only one Creator, One Lord God, One Savior who Gave his son. Nothing in scripture denotes there was no REAL SON.

The NT backs this up.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are two here. In fact the NT mentions both Father and Lord Jesus Christ together 31 times. we don't ignore 31 scriptures. If there was just ONE GOD, then it would have said that.

These Doctrines of Monotheism (One God) from men have made our minds to be blinded. They have made us to forget how to count, have made us over look Jesus was never called Lord God or creator.
It's when we Translate with a doctrine of man, we miss what the Word does say.

It also makes us dumb when the Word God is mentioned.

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:5-6)

One God the Father of whom are all things................ One Lord Jesus Christ by (through and because of)

2 here........... One whom all things were made.............. One through and because of all things were made. TWO

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus the Son of God, who has always been with the Father, Like the Father, One with the Father (As we are in him) from the start of time.

When we say there is ONE GOD..................... We deny one of them. It's the Antichrist that denies the Father and the Son. It was God the Son that came in the flesh.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Jesus Came as a man in the flesh............ Not God the Father incarnate. Anyone that says it was God the Creator, the Father is an Antichrist. It was God, His son that came, a Real son that He gave glory to before the World was even made.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(1Jn 4:3)

Not me.............. There are Two, Two Gods, to us as Paul said....... Father and Son. The rest that believe different are from the Antichrist, not my words, but scriptures.

Be blessed.

We already discussed part of this on the other thread. God the Father is God, Jesus is God and they are one in God's Spirit, (God as One).

The Word is life. If I say God is love. I can also say God is truth. All of God is love. All of God is truth. All of God is the Word of Faith. The Word is life and spiritual and God was in a physical manifestation. God saves our spirit, not the body.

"If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”f ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall weg bear the image of the heavenly man.
50I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable" (1 Corinthians 15:44-50).
 
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Okay Mario, that's better, you're talking to me.

All who have been born again have had a similar experience as you have had, we know/realize we are sinners destined for Hell.

Jesus has told us, no one comes to Him unless the Father draws them,

No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

And the process of being drawn to Jesus is this,

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. John 14:6

What has/is happening in your life is the Father is drawing/has drawn you to Jesus, do you see the three different stages in John 14:6?

The first thing we realize as Father begins to draw us is Jesus is the Way, then He starts teaching us His Truth until finally we are ready to be born again and we receive His Life, it's a process that takes time, just like the gestation period of nine months from conception to birth in our own human lives.

Are you with me so far, is this new to you or have you already heard it?

It's time for me to go to work, I'll be back at lunch time, I'll leave you with this to ponder, or maybe you already know, ...what is it that has to be born again in us?

Blessings,

Gene
 
Okay Mario, that's better, you're talking to me.
All who have been born again have had a similar experience as you have had, we know/realize we are sinners destined for Hell.
Jesus has told us, no one comes to Him unless the Father draws them,
No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
And the process of being drawn to Jesus is this,
I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. John 14:6
What has/is happening in your life is the Father is drawing/has drawn you to Jesus, do you see the three different stages in John 14:6?
The first thing we realize as Father begins to draw us is Jesus is the Way, then He starts teaching us His Truth until finally we are ready to be born again and we receive His Life, it's a process that takes time, just like the gestation period of nine months from conception to birth in our own human lives.
Are you with me so far, is this new to you or have you already heard it?
It's time for me to go to work, I'll be back at lunch time, I'll leave you with this to ponder, or maybe you already know, ...what is it that has to be born again in us? Blessings, Gene
______________________________________

Beloved, I am always willing to speak with a believer: for we are called to "...speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

John 14:6 _ "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father but by me."
The way: God draws us to repent and believe the Gospel: if we don't we will stay in the same spiritual condition;
The truth: baptism in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins prepares us to enter into God's kingdom;
"...for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission...". The blood is applied to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, in baptism;
The life: we receive the promise of the Holy Spirit (eternal life), which is able to raise us from the dead to be with the Father.

Are you with me? For if you do not believe the aforesaid, we cannot be "...in the same mind and in the same judgment."
When the Lord called me, He did not call me with any denominational premise. He began showing me His Gospel and His doctrines. If any man desires an office in the Ministry, his testimony must correspond to that of the apostles and prophets of the Lord Jesus. So I look to those "...holy men of God, spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit...", within the scriptures.
 
Mario, if you have read any of my posts then I think you'll know I'm born again, ...now did think about what has to be born again in us? Can you tell me?

Blessings,

Gene
 

MichaelH

Inactive
______________________________________

Beloved, I am always willing to speak with a believer: for we are called to "...speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Beware, Gene has misquoted me more than once claiming I said things I never did, and believe things I never posted. I don't hold it against him, but as Grandpa told me................. Do me dirty once, your fault, do me dirty twice, then my fault.
Major asked me to drop it and I stopped my ranting about it. However, proceed with caution.
I don't mind people disagreeing but it's a whole other level when we start to actually misquote and categorize people.


We already discussed part of this on the other thread. God the Father is God, Jesus is God and they are one in God's Spirit, (God as One).

The Word is life. If I say God is love. I can also say God is truth. All of God is love. All of God is truth. All of God is the Word of Faith. The Word is life and spiritual and God was in a physical manifestation. God saves our spirit, not the body.

"If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”f ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall weg bear the image of the heavenly man.
50I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable" (1 Corinthians 15:44-50).

I have no idea what you just said, but it sounds Good.

Be blessed.
 
Beware...
______________________
I can relate: there are a couple that of persons that cannot listen to my words, and have not only misquoted me, but have accused me of lying, hypocrisy, and just being dumb.
Now dumb I cannot defend myself against: but I shoot too straight to be a hypocrite or a liar.
 

MichaelH

Inactive
Beware...
______________________
I can relate: there are a couple that of persons that cannot listen to my words, and have not only misquoted me, but have accused me of lying, hypocrisy, and just being dumb.
Now dumb I cannot defend myself against: but I shoot too straight to be a hypocrite or a liar.

I have no issues being called stupid or dumb. I certainly am in lots of areas. Misquoting me and saying I believe something I don't is lying though. I have a high standard for someone that names Christ as their Lord. Also lying and misquoting other ministers being a judge is another one of my buttons. We are told to judge no mans servant, and I expect that standard to be met.

Then there is accusing God of evil and blaming him. "God, took jimmy home early for the evil to come." God killed Jimmy being clueless on how to save Jimmy from the evil.

We should know God, should never judge or misrepresent one another.
 
Off the flow consider this

Science has determined that the first and most basic aspect of the Universe is Space, without which there would be no physical universe. We define space in three dimensions; length, breadth, and height. These three are “absolute” and “necessary” for there to be the phenomena we call “space” and without them space could not be known. The one phenomena called space is defined by these three qualities for a reason.

No one of these three is either of the others, but each helps us understand the presence of the others, and yet together they are experienced as one. Take away either one and the other two enter into the perceptually abstract. The example most often used to show this is that if there was no height, then breadth and length would become what is referred to as “a plane surface.” We can only imagine a 2-dimensional universe. It simply does not make sense. In fact it would be non-sense when talking about our universe! It could not exist for us so that we could perceive it if we lived within it for we would also be two dimensional and there would be no shape to perceive as separate from ourselves. The real Created universe does exist, but such a thing as this hypothetical 2-dimensional one can only be imagined, because it cannot exist and still be defined as being composed of space.

For either one aspect of this One in its three-ness to have real meaning and purpose, they must be a unity, yet height is not depth, nor width, nor is width, height, and so on. Each one depends on the others to fully be expressed and made to have significant meaning and purpose. They are physically an interdependent oneness or unity just as God is one spiritually. The essential numerically one Universe or Creation precedes and emanates forth this quality of three-ness. Is this not also like unto Light, which essentially is one phenomena but is expressed in its three primary colors from which all other color possibilities arise? Yes, exactly like light!

Now besides Space, there is also a second primary quality of the Universe we call “matter.” Matter is that which fills and embodies space, and gives meaningful and purposeful material form to all the phenomena of the physical universe. According to modern chemistry and physics, matter, energy and motion are all one (E=MC2). In other words Einstein discovered that energy is present because of mass being multiplied by the square of the velocity. This is a secondary revelation that today’s physicists derive from the depth of realization provided by the math of this scientific hero and genius. It is not simply that this is what energy actually is, but rather how we measure its reality. Essentially energy is matter and vice versa, and it is measured by nature of there being motion or velocity. Velocity is a result or manifestation of the present amount of energy working in or on matter. Motion is a quality of matter that reveals the real presence of energy or force at work. Thus motion is an equally necessary quality of the matter/energy tri-eclectic universal equation, complete with all the infinite variations and complexities of motion into which the principle of motion differentiates itself. Because of this tri-unity we have all the recognizable phenomena that we can know of with our finite senses. All of them, whether light, heat, sound, geometry, color, substance, distance, difference, etc., are all an expression of this tri-unity! Wow! What an awesome God we serve. Hallelujah!

This three-ness quality of matter beyond its obvious structural tri-unity cannot actually be divided other than in the imagination. Motionless matter is energy-less matter. Such a thing is a logical absurdity to Chemistry and Physics. Energy must be present. If not kinetically, then it is there in potentia. Likewise, if there were no mass, what would the energy work upon, and what could we perceive (of course if this could be, then there would be no “we” to perceive or not perceive). See how absurd this becomes? If there were no energy, how would matter exhibit motion (inner or outer)? This is the reality of matter from the most basic atomic level to that which we perceive most grossly.

Therefore it is apparent that without recognizing the interdependent tri-une quality of matter, the very science of it becomes nonsensical! Whether we realize it or not, all three are being recognized from the energy in which it is essentially based, to the phenomena of it being perceived.

One aspect, in reality, cannot be divorced from the others, only in theory for the purposes of our investigation and more refined definition. Energy is the cause of the motion of the mass. The mass which is in continuous flux demonstrates the energy. The motion is the indicator of the energy of the mass. The energy has to be moving something (or in something) to be perceived. Motion is the energy in the mass being moved, expressed. Can any two characteristics therefore exist without the others? Of course not, this would be totally absurd. It is one absolute unity not more or less, and exists in all three forms. Energy can no more produce activity without mass, than motion can exist void of it, and motion cannot be perceived without something being moved. Motion is therefore, because of mass and energy. Energy is, because of motion and mass. And mass is, because of motion and energy. The three are one…absolutely! The one is three…absolutely! So we can see His signature of the one being expressed as threeness in the phenomena called matter as well as in the one we call space.

Now there is a third essential quality of the Lord’s Created Universe and that is Time. Time is also one expressed as a three-ness, i.e., past, present, and future! Again, it is an absolute tri-unity. The one phenomena is manifest in its three-ness. Each aspect interdependent and non-divorceable (pardon the invention of a word) from the other, save in the realm of imagination for the purposes of definition, division, and distinction as a frame of reference for our finite minds. No one of these three can exist without the other two and still be time as we think of it (chronos). Imagine…if there were no temporal past, then there could not be a temporal present, and since the future is dependent on the motions of the now (what is happening and producing effect), makes time intimately related to space and matter discussed above. This temporal phenomenon we call time is dependent on and has an effect on both.

However, if there were no “now” there could be no “then”, and no future! Yet it is philosophically plausible for there to be a continuous now without the aging, disintegrating, morphological effects of chronos/time. These distinctions (past, present, future) are relative descriptions divided comparatively only for our finite intellectual capacity to comprehend. Since time is a function or dimension of the universe, and the universe had a definite beginning (which science has only recently proven), then before the universe, there had to be a state of non-time, and so this essential timelessness (which we call “the Eternal”) will also be there when the universe ceases to be (for all “things” that have a beginning also have an ending). That being which does not move from before through now to then, which is without beginning and/or ending, is described by the word symbol “eternal”, thus the eternal precedes and antecedes the temporal. Time (chronos) is/was born out of the timelessness and will dissolve back into it and all that will be will be eternal “now”. In the eternal, wherein is the potential for all we call time (past, present, and future), all three are as one “now.” In our personal experience we live a continuous now.


Truly and honestly however, consider that if time did not exist up until now and that now, I mentioned then has already passed, then time has ceased to exist, which of course it hasn’t because thanks to our wonderful Creator, time that we experience is past, present, and future simultaneously and will continue until as Peter prophesied so exquisitely “the elements melt as with a fervent heat.”


Therefore, our present is the future to another past, and the past to as yet another future. If there is no present, then time has never existed and we would not be discussing this here. If there is no future, then time must stop right “NOW”! Do you see how absurd this becomes? So time is and the past, present, and future are three things that time is, while time is likewise the third qualitative element of the one Universe, along with space and matter. These conceptual symbols of past, present, and future, are merely the way that our categorizing perceptual ability makes the absolute unity of the phenomena relative and comprehensible to our finite minds. For the finite mind to grasp the eternal essential nature of all this could be maddening for many, so the miraculous brain we possess was created to be able to instantaneously classify our experience into parts in order to maintain our ego’s integrity and wholeness.


In the Creation, time is conserved because there is always all of time, and no part of it is actually ever lost, save in the imaginations of men, neither is it expended into non-existence so long as the universe still is, and even then it merely transforms back into its essential timelessness or eternal state of reality, the continuous now. The eternal is the essential state or quality of the temporal reality. For the sake of our finite egos being able to comprehend this, the eternal is both predecessor and antecessor. Finally time as we experience it temporally is alterable (or at least the perception of it) by location and speed. Time passes differently 600 meters below the surface of a planet than it does 600 meters above the same planet.


So there you have it. All these three essential aspects of the one Universe, i.e., space, matter, and time, are each themselves a oneness which is tri-une in nature, and taken together in our perception of reality, these three together are likewise one phenomena in unity. This is one universal equation, expressed in three-ness for the purposes of comprehension within the phenomena called the human psyche (soul). Is the Universe then merely bearing witness to a yet greater revelation of God’s essential reality? Of course it is. Just like the Scriptures said!

Whew! Probably just a mental spill over...I know it was long...forgive me

Just for fun, sometime check out the Tricyclopedia....The Book of Threes

brother Paul
 

MichaelH

Inactive
So there you have it. All these three essential aspects of the one Universe, i.e., space, matter, and time, are each themselves a oneness which is tri-une in nature, and taken together in our perception of reality, these three together are likewise one phenomena in unity. This is one universal equation, expressed in three-ness for the purposes of comprehension within the phenomena called the human psyche (soul). Is the Universe then merely bearing witness to a yet greater revelation of God’s essential reality? Of course it is. Just like the Scriptures said!

Whew! Probably just a mental spill over...I know it was long...forgive me

Just for fun, sometime check out the Tricyclopedia....The Book of Threes

brother Paul

I read through all that Paul. I don't mind long post. I am thinking you watched 1 to many episodes of Star Trek, and it has pushed you over the edge. Can't really blame you, my Avatar is the Enterprise E. I don't think I have watched enough of them though to grasp what you just put up there though.

Blessings.
 
I read through all that Paul. I don't mind long post. I am thinking you watched 1 to many episodes of Star Trek, and it has pushed you over the edge. Can't really blame you, my Avatar is the Enterprise E. I don't think I have watched enough of them though to grasp what you just put up there though.

Blessings.

No problem Data....engage....
 
I read through all that Paul. I don't mind long post. I am thinking you watched 1 to many episodes of Star Trek, and it has pushed you over the edge. Can't really blame you, my Avatar is the Enterprise E. I don't think I have watched enough of them though to grasp what you just put up there though. Blessings.
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"I didn't even see the Indian!"
 
The creation's most essential aspects bear witness to how one can also be three...I don't know guys, it seemed we were wandering anyway so I wandered...a little far I guess...back to the Bible!
 
I read through all that Paul. I don't mind long post. I am thinking you watched 1 to many episodes of Star Trek, and it has pushed you over the edge. Can't really blame you, my Avatar is the Enterprise E. I don't think I have watched enough of them though to grasp what you just put up there though.

Blessings.
I will make it real simple for you Michael. What Paul is saying is something like this.

Apple (separate fruit) + Orange (separate fruit) + Groceries (apple + orange) =3

Apple + Orange + Groceries = 3
1 + 1 + 1 = 3

Here is another hard equation:

Energy (1 component of universe) + Motion (1 component of universe) + Mass (Energy + Motion) =3
1 + 1 + 1 =3

If you still don't understand, maybe you can ask your son to help you.
 
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clay + breath + spirit = soul :)
I like pancakes too :D
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spirit (creation) + clay (body) + breath (soul) = man!

I guess you can put the milk and eggs into the bowl first, then add the flour; but if you put in too much flour, then you'll end up
adding more milk and/or eggs. But that's OK, I guess: you'll just have enough pancakes for the whole neighborhood.
 
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spirit (creation) + clay (body) + breath (soul) = man!

I guess you can put the milk and eggs into the bowl first, then add the flour; but if you put in too much flour, then you'll end up
adding more milk and/or eggs. But that's OK, I guess: you'll just have enough pancakes for the whole neighborhood.

You see, there is many different recipes (denominations) for pancakes (christians) but you must have the basics, or it's not a pancake! Now think about the syrup, what's the syrup? The sweetest part of the pancake, maple syrup is salvation. Do you like powdered sugar? That's blessings.
 
You see, there is many different recipes (denominations) for pancakes (christians) but you must have the basics, or it's not a pancake! Now think about the syrup, what's the syrup? The sweetest part of the pancake, maple syrup is salvation. Do you like powdered sugar? That's blessings.
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So if I eat pancakes with maples syrup, I'm saved: but if I top off my pancakes with powdered sugar, I'm only blessed.
Weird gospel you have there, sonny!
 
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