Indicators of Recent Creation or Cataclysm

A great thing about nature as an expression of God's divine nature is that it can be profitably studied and by learning the nature of nature we learn the nature of Him.
Interesting post and an interesting discussion in general.

Although the exact provenance is not universally accepted and somewhat apocryphal in its exact wording, I’ve nevertheless always enjoyed the quote attributed to biologist J.B.S. Haldane on “Gods Creation”. A version of which appears in his 1940’s book, “What is Life”, in which Haldane discussed the prevalence of stars and beetles:

“The Creator would appear as endowed with a passion for stars[1] on the one hand, and for beetles on the other, for the simple reason that there are nearly 300,000[2] species of beetle known, and perhaps more, as compared with somewhat less than 9,000 species of birds and a little over 10,000 species of mammals”.

[1] A quadrillion stars, or a 1 + 24 0’s. Many feel this is a gross underestimation as more detailed looks at the universe are showing even more galaxies than just a few years ago in Haldane’s time.
[2] Now 350,000+ by more recent data.
 
I am sorry Brother, I can not agree. When God wrote the heavens declare his glory. No one knew about light years or how long it would take for the light to get there. So how long it took the light to get from a star to earth for us to see the light had no bearing on Gods word, or how it declares his glory.

As for miracles. When Jesus made the blind man see, He went against nature When he rose Lazarus from he dead. He went against nature. When he cause the Earth to stop rotating so they could have one more hour of sunlight, that was against nature. When he turned the water to blood. That was against nature. When he spoke. And that which was nothing became the heavens and the earth and all that was in it. that was against nature. I can go on and on and on. And it is why most people reject the creation record. Because it goes against nature.

as for Yom and era. What basis do we use to say and evening and morning are the begining of an era. And what purpose does that bible say we had a required era to be completed between each day? Again, Jesus said he rested on the 7th, and told isreal as he rested on day 7, so should they rest on day 7. I six days God worked, and rested on the seventh, in the same notion, they should work for 6 dayes and rest on the 7th.

That is more than enough proof from Gods own words to see each day in genesis as a day, not an era.

I used to be an old earth GAP believer, I was that way because as a teenage, it answered a lot of questions I had. About ten years ago. I started to study the flood. It not only answered the questions I had in a more precise way. it changed my view, and is the reason I became a young earth creationist.
When God rested on the 7th 24-hour day, what did he do on the eighth 24-hour day. If God is still resting now, then the 7th day is longer than 24 hours. Is there a problem of consistency here?
 
When God rested on the 7th 24-hour day, what did he do on the eighth 24-hour day. If God is still resting now, then the 7th day is longer than 24 hours. Is there a problem of consistency here?
Yes. In my view anyway

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it


Exodus 31:14-17
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who [profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 1It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in sixdays the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

There is no provision for a continual rest. That would be adding to the word somethign that is not there

God said he rested on the 7th.. Not that he rested since then
 
The record of the church (small c, meaning church as an organization of very fallible men) has not been stellar.

As the early church incorporated more Greeks, particularly those who had been taught an Aristotelian view of the creation, the church began to interpret much of the Bible through Aristotelian point of view.

It is the controversy over this view Augustine de Hippo wrote about in his Literal Meaning of Genesis. His thesis was that if, as the Aristotelian view (i.e. spherical earth) is true (he never took a clear side), than the scriptures must be interpreted in a manner that allows for this truth.

Until recently, Augustine was held in high regard, not only for his renunciation of the Manichean heresy, but for honestly documenting his own struggles with sin, and as a historical answer to his mother's prayers. On the last few years, I have noted a marked tendency to label Augustine as a heretic

Over the next few centuries, the Aristotelian model of the cosmos was held to be the message of scripture.

This when Copernicus wrote about a Sun centered view of the solar system he was banned, and when Galileo used the telescope to show that there were moons around Saturn and the orbits of cometary bodies, contrary to Aristotelian teaching and thus their view of scripture, Galileo was convicted of suspicion of heresy and kept under house arrest.

When Columbus proposed to reach the orient by sailing west, those who had an interest in existing practices used the flat world theory to argue against him. While common sailors were mostly taught by practical experience and may have been superstitious, ship masters and navigators knew geometry well and in the Mediterranean were used to sailing outside of the sight of land. They were used ti knowing how far north or south they were by sun and stars, but they did not know how to judge east/west until reliable time keeping let them use the sun to find longitude.

The thing is, the church was well aware of both the Greek view of a spherical world, and the Egyptian view. Both the Greeks and ancient Egypt has developed estimates of the size of the world and copies of these documents were kept by the church. The church even sponsored several efforts to measure the size of the Earth for itself, one being by using the angle of sunlight down wells in northern Italy and in southern Italy, using the distance between the wells and difference in angle to estimate the size of the Earth.

I do not know what is being taught our children now, but in the 1960's I was taught that a superstitious church insisted that the world was flat.

Because of the spurious issue put forward to prevent money being spent on an alternate way of reaching the orient, the church still gets a black-eye and many believe that Christians in general believed only in a flat Earth at the time of Columbus. We should be more circumspect when we make deductions beyond direct scripture teaching.


Richard Aulie (Christian Evangelist) said
It is ironic that in their thirst to oppose evolution and support the Bible, creationists embrace the biology of Aristotle, who was not a theist, and ignore the views of Rene Descartes, Francis Bacon and Robert Boyle who were.
 
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