Is Acceptance A "Work" of Obedience

[Godhelpus]

I guess I just see it different. I don't see how one can confess Jesus as Lord until they have first accepted Him as such. Acceptance then confession as opposed to acceptance and confession.

It's not written as a timeline thing.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Paul speaks like both are at the same time. It's not about whether one is before the others, but that both are needed to be saved.

The question here is, if God says speaking words is a work or not. There are Scriptures showing that God judges our words the same as works, and evil words are called evil works, such as bearing false witness. Therefore, confessing with the mouth the Lord Jesus is a good work, rather than giving false testimony.

The only question is whose work it is, that we are doing? Who gets the glory, when we confess Jesus our Lord? Who can boast of it? Only God by Jesus Christ, not we ourselves. In that light, Paul says everything we now do through Jesus Christ, is no longer our works, but the Lord's, for we are now His workmanship:

Isa 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[Godhelpus]

this is where your hitting the brick wall.. by adding works in to salvation. Paul calls it the free gift a free gift can not be earned

And yet, if it is God that includes the work, then it is part of His free gift.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Do we earn the right to call upon the name of the Lord, and be saved? No. It is the free gift of God to do anything by His grace, especially to be saved. No man can boast of doing anything good through Jesus Christ, especially confessing Him Lord by the grace of God:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

.. water baptism could possibly fall into a type work because its something we do

And yet, confessing the Lord Jesus is not something we do? It certainly is something we do.

but it does not save

And so confessing the Lord Jesus does not save? Since it certainly is something we do.

This is not just a game of logic and catching of words. We are told plainly that we must believe from the heart, and confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus, to be saved.

This is the Lord's requirement of us, for Him to save us. If someone doesn't like calling confession a 'work', then so be it. But it certainly is something we do, and must do to be saved. Anyone can object to calling confession a work, but who is going to say, that it is not something we do?

we do nothing only speak from the heart confess with your heart .

I see, then confessing with our mouth is not something we do? Really? Is this a theological or philosophic argument, because it certainly isn't practical. When we give testimony in court, we're not 'doing' anything? Then why is there law against bearing false witness, if we do nothing only speaking from the mouth?

Also, why is water baptism something we do, but not confessing the Lord Jesus? With water baptism, we don't even have to confess anything, but just let the baptizer do all the work. In a practical sense, being water baptized is doing less than confessing with the mouth...

Once again, this isn't about gotcha words and playing games of logic. It's about what is being taught from the Bible. And the things being said in the name of Christ. Is that nothing to speak of?

Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

[Dave F.]

Ephesians 2:8​

ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
NASB For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
CSB For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
NLT God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
NKJV For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Even the faith to believe is a gift from GOD. The original question was whether or not accepting Jesus was a work. Confessing Jesus as Lord must come after acceptance for how can one confess unless they first accept? However it is by grace that we can have faith to believe and since it is by the grace of God is not a work of ours.

 

[Godhelpus]

I agree that we will stand in disagreement. I must say to you that in all my years I have never heard anyone take the position you have taken

I understand. But of course that doesn't make it wrong. All anyone needs to do is just show how my words from the Scriptures are flawed in their meaning, and I'll correct them. I learn from Scripture how to teach Scripture:

Neh 8:8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense.

In a real sense, it's just grammatical comprehension, where we basically repeat back the words themselves. We let Christ teach His own book.

2Co 3:12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

If we must confess the Lord Jesus with our mouth, then we must do something to be saved. Whether that can be called a work or not is a side issue. The plain thing is that we participate in our own salvation, by doing what the Lord says to do by grace, and be saved by Him.

although I would add here that the Catholic church teaches that going to confession is a work.

True. And confessing sins to a priest to be 'absolved', has nothing to do with confessing the Lord Jesus to be saved.

I guess my personal problem here is that I see NO way to understand how something said compares to something done.

You mean, when we confess something, are we 'doing' something? Well, the common and practical answer, is yes. "What is he doing over there?" "Talking to someone..." But, especially when we are giving testimony in court, we are certainly doing something. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any law against giving false testimony.

But, once again, we must turn to the Bible for God's word on such matters. His word is yes, we are doing something when speaking:

Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

The Scripture says we do things in word, as well as deed. Just simple grammar, you see?

I am going to say to you one more time that Grace is God giving us something we cannot earn or deserve.

And one more time I agree. And if grace to be saved includes confessing the Lord Jesus in word, then we are doing something by grace to be saved. Not something to be earned nor deserved nor bragged about.

Then according to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace.
The rub here is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned.
Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace.

Then obviously doing what the Lord says we must do, to be saved, is not a work of our own to be paid for, but rather a work of God that we do by His grace.

It's plain enough, that trying to make difference between confessing and doing something, is the wrong argument. Rather it should be about the difference between doing something of our own without Christ, or doing something of God through Christ. The difference to be made, is between man's work for pay or boasting, vs God's work to glorify Him alone.

IMHO, when I read and study the Word of God, it is quite clear that our own works/words do not help merit salvation.

Well, there you go. We agree. Just as with confessing sins to some priest, no one is talking about doing any or our own works or words. Those are the words and works, whether good or bad, righteous or unrighteous, charitable or covetous, that have no part in being saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

The Scripture simply forbids any word or deed man does without Christ, to have any part in being saved and justified with God.

This means Biblically that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, speaking a word, work of any kind and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone.

Then confessing the Lord Jesus does not save us? Or, will you now try to say confessing with the mouth is not 'speaking a word'?

Works of the flesh as seen in Gal. 6:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, ;idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Now, I will allow you the last word on your opinion of words spoken.

Sure. I've shown it to you before: Impurity, strife, enmity, dissension, divisions are impure words of strife, enmity, etc.. Scripture calls those words works of the flesh.

1Co 15:33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

It's just a simple matter of grammar in Scripture.

Maybe there is Someone who else may be willing to spend time on this with you but I am not the one. It is simply a no brainer IMHO.

See ya on another topic down the road.

Ok, thanks for the time. It's not always about agreeing or disagreeing with someone, but learning something. And even in disagreement, an argument can be tested, tried, purified, and made even more accurate than before.