Is Acceptance A "Work" of Obedience
- Thread starter Major
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I have come across a few people who claim that they are GOOD and will be PRESENTABLE to CHRIST due to their GOODNESS.
Accepting Jesus as OUR SAVIOUR is HIS invitation for us to partake in TOTAL FORGIVENESS of our sins... and a promise that those of us who do this... will receive ETERNAL LIFE. If anyone dares to have the ARROGANCE of thinking that their acceptance is a work... then I question whether or not they are understanding the definition of SALVATION.
IF I invite you to a ROYAL DINNER... totally paid for... complete BANQUET and all you have to do is show up... Is that a work??
I have come to DISLIKE the word WORK when it comes to anything that ANY human thinks they might ADD to the finished work of CHRIST on the CROSS.
They are confused as to what work is. Accepting Jesus as your LORD and Saviour is an ACT of faith in HIM to grant you salvation that HE purchased with HIS blood. Jesus did the work, we just acted on our faith in HIM. After we have accepted HIM then we begin our work, not to gain salvation, but because we have been given salvation. The bible clearly tells us salvation is a free gift, NOT by works, lest any man should boast.
I like to go on the notion that law means something we do, whereas grace is something God does, did, or is doing. In this case, salvation would be by law not by Grace.
My first-thought response is that this is kind of backwards.
How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:14-17
So it is evidence that whoever gave witness to the Son has done a work.
How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:14-17
So it is evidence that whoever gave witness to the Son has done a work.
Reminds me of the observant Jew's claim that on the Sabbath moving a hand to activate a motion detected light switch is forbidden because it's work, which is forbidden on the Sabbath.
It's simply a failure to understand the true nature of the concept of "work".
It's an accomplished work, if we can confess Him Lord Jesus.
Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
In God's word and kingdom, it's all about what faith accomplishes, rather than just what is believed.
Jas 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
We naturally 'accept' what we hear, like natural ground accepting seed thrown onto it. But with the truth, if we do not act on it, then it does us no good. That includes only agreeing something is true. We must hear and believe unto salvation by doing the truth, not just accepting it alone.
James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
3 John{1:11} Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Doing good because of Jesus Christ is not the same as believing Him due to our goodness. It's not our goodness but His alone.
Mar 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
That's why we repent and confess our sins to Him, that we may be wholly forgiven and given His grace and goodness, rather than keep our own sins and manner of righteousness.
Isa 64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
It's God's righteousness we need to do that pleases God, not our own.
1Jo 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Agreed. Acceptance alone is not a work. Only when we receive His faith to do His will, can we be saved.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Of course not. Not until we eat it. Otherwise, all we've done is show up, and the banquet is wasted on us.
Jhn 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Jhn 6:57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Accepting the invitation to eat does us no good, if we don't eat.
2 pet 1:4 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If it's our own works without Jesus Christ from the heart, then God hates them too, and so should we. But if we add His good works to our faith, then God is pleased to keep us unto the end with resurrection unto life.
Jhn 8:29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
James 1:But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
There is a slippery slope with this topic of Christian behaviour.
Legalism seems to pervert the BEAUTY and PURITY of a soul that is SAVED by the SHED BLOOD of CHRIST as a ONE time EVENT.
The "notion" of keeping "ONESELF SAVED" ... and all the INSANITY... not to mention HYPOCRISY that is bred from this heretical teaching is something that has done MUCH damage to Christianity.
I am grateful that my SAVIOUR has extended OUTRAGEOUS GRACE to me... by FORGIVING me ALL my sins... past... present and future.
Rather than this ASSURANCE giving me the "license to SIN" ... as it is claimed by the legalists.... It ACTUALLY gives me to FREEDOM to live a SPIRIT and JOY-FILLED life.
My "GOODNESS" if you want to call it that becomes OBEDIENCE to God's commands because of my LOVE and TOTAL SUBMISSION to JESUS CHRIST. It becomes an OFFERING rather than a FEAR BASED BURDEN.
If you want to respond to any of my points, like I did with yours, then I'd like to see that. Especially if you have any Scriptures to add to the ones I give.
Otherwise, if you want to talk about legalism and it's parasitical Christian perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ, then I can offer Scriptures against that as well.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Doing our own righteousness, rather than God's, is by seeking to do good with faith and love of God from the heart.
{28:9} The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
God saves us to do His will, not our own, nor that of the world.
Present and future sins?
Rom 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
I know about being forgiven for our past sins against God, but how can we be forgiven while disobeying Him? And you know for sure you will disobey him in the future too?
1Jo 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
How can we be forgiven of sinning without confessing it? Do you confess your sinning while committing it, so you can be forgiven in the act?
It's not about a license to sin, since no one on earth has one from God. It's about an apparent freedom and liberty with God, while doing unrighteousness against Him.
What about while you're sinning against Him. Are you also in loving submission to Him, as well as forgiven, while doing works against Him?
Living in fear and keeping the fear of the Lord is not the same thing.
1 Peter{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
The fear of the Lord is knowing we are all judged by our works, whether we name His name or not.
There are plenty of people who cast aside the fear of the Lord, under the banner of having 'no fear'. The new age movement is all about having no fear, no judgment, and no possibility of not being divine and resurrected unto life with Christ. They also have a loving and joy filled life, without any fear of judgment to come. Doesn't that sound like the outrageous grace you're talking about?
I am not used to having conversations that require me to insert scripture. I do not partake in debate threads for that reason.
It's simply not my style... and I mean NO disrespect.
The person who started this thread is a pastor and he is OK with my occasional drop ins where I leave my two cents worth.
So forgive me if I misunderstood your desire to have scripture as a reference while engaged in conversation.
YES... ALL my sins are FORGIVEN.... I will be a sinner until the day I die.... and then I will be Glorified.... therefore no longer one who falls short of complete OBEDIENCE.
Not sure what you are trying to say here but.... my relationship with God is such that I speak with Him on a continuous basis... I am not sure what you are referring to regarding your EMPHASIS on the word CONFESSING IT.
Again... I am not clear on what you are trying to EMPHASIZE. WE are sinners.... we will sin until we die. GOD is aware of this. JESUS died for this reason.... and NO.... I am NOT always in loving submission to HIM.
THE FEAR of the LORD is knowing that HE is JUST.... ALMIGHTY... and ALL KNOWING. I don't think you and I are on the same page here regarding Christianity... which is fine.... I usually keep my comments to the lighter topics... but I have had a challenging month of April... and I guess I am still dealing with the lingering effect of this. GOD BLESS YOU.
That's the kind of question that can drive you crazy.
That said, the essence of a work is quid-pro-quo -- I do this therefore you do that. I dare say if this is one's attitude towards God, thinking one can compel his behavior by our own, then perhaps we need to re-evaluate our assumptions.
imo a work is something YOU do the Lord.. salvation is what Jesus done for us at the Cross and resurrection == saved by Grace (God divine favor) not of works it is the gift of God. a gift is freely given not earned
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
James 2:14-26
New King James Version
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
anything we do for the Lord is work and our works will be judged tested by the fire wood hay stubble things we do of our self Gold silver precious stones . are led By the H.S that will come through the fire
forgiven61 My comment was stated as a frustration towards those who practice a rules based lifestyle... driven by FEAR.
I understand that we are called to COME OUT OF SIN.... and also to LIVE an OBEDIENT LIFE to GOD.
No problem. And God bless you too. So far as keeping to lighter topics, I can only suggest that if you're going to preach your faith to others, then if we do the same with ours, don't be too hasty to jump to unnecessary conclusions, just because we may disagree. I'm not only not a legalist, but was delivered by Jesus from legalism infecting the heart, much the same way as Saul of Tarsus.
It appears you are simply one of the Christians, who think our belief in Jesus Christ means that we won't be judged by our works the same as everyone else. And so, the fear of the Lord is shunned in the name of 'outrageous' grace. As you say, works almost becomes a 'bad' word to your faith.
The fear of the Lord is being honest with God and ourselves, that the eternal righteous Lord does not exempt anyone from His necessary judgment of all deeds good or evil. Our trust in Him should not be to 'escape' judgment of our own works, but rather to trust Jesus is able to keep us in His Spirit and love to do good and not evil.
Heb 1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
What speaks well of your faith toward God, is that you are honest about your times of not loving Him and doing His will. But rather than sort of 'embrace' them as inevitable, we should believe in His the true grace and promise of His gospel, that if we will do what we can through Him and His faith, then He will continue doing what only He can through His Spirit.
I know quoting Scriptures is not your style, but here are some that should assure believers in Jesus of His love and power to do as He promises, and take away our lust and deliver us from the sins of the world:
Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Hos 14:2Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.
1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.
2 pet 1:4 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
1Th 4:1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
Mat 6:34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
As the song goes, One day at a time sweet Jesus.
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You have taken some serious liberties as a "NEW MEMBER" of these forums.
You cannot possibly judge me or my beliefs by ONE day here and ONE thread.
I apologize, but I thought we were free to respond with our own take on what other say for themselves. Didn't you do the same when responding to me as being some sort of legalist?
In any case, I'll avoid such unnecessary contention with you.
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Please review Forum Rules 2.1 and 3.1 before you continue posting.
As a new member, you may not be fully aware yet about our Forum Rules and the Friendly atmosphere that we have here.
CFS is unlike other forums that allows somewhat negative personal comments about others and their Belief System.
Thank you for your cooperation and now this thread can continue with Forum Rules in mind.
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