Is God All-Powerful?

Is God All-Powerful?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 100.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    7
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Cosmicwaffle said:
Dead IN sin. I said spiritually did I not?

Are you saying since God saved me and I had no part in it I cannot be grateful? Quite the opposite, more like ETERNALLY grateful!
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You said that the lost are like a dead body that Jesus carries to shore. I responded that the dead cannot sin, and you haven't replied to that.

And no, I did not say you weren't grateful. My point was that the one who grabs the rope and is pulled to shore is not PROUD but grateful. This is in response to your claim that Arminianism puts man before God.
 
Relentless said:
You said that the lost are like a dead body that Jesus carries to shore. I responded that the dead cannot sin, and you haven't replied to that.

And no, I did not say you weren't grateful. My point was that the one who grabs the rope and is pulled to shore is not PROUD but grateful.
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It is an analogy. Spiritually they cannot grab a metaphorical rope because they are dead in sin and cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God.

You cannot deny that the person had a part in salvation though, grabbing the rope is dependent upon them is it not? Therefore it was not all God. That person out of their own strength had to find the rope, grab it, and hold on. That takes work doesn't it?
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
It is an analogy. Spiritually they cannot grab a metaphorical rope because they are dead in sin and cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God.

You cannot deny that the person had a part in salvation though, grabbing the rope is dependent upon them is it not? Therefore it was not all God. That person out of their own strength had to find the rope, grab it, and hold on. That takes work doesn't it?
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Of course it's an analogy. And the point is to convey a literal truth. It is an illustration of a concept.

Spiritually they can indeed "grab the rope" because they are "alive" enough to sin. They can understand the gospel message. If they can't, then the entire NT is a waste of words and a mockery of the offer to accept the Good News or reject it.

You still don't see what I'm saying about grabbing the rope. It is the acceptance of an offer. Jesus offers salvation to all, freely. Whoever accepts the offer is saved. This acceptance is not a work, and it does not require God to first "regenerate" the person. Faith comes by hearing, not by "irresistible grace". To say that God cannot throw anyone a rope is to say God cannot offer anyone a gift.

Scripture answers your question about whether faith is a work: Rom. 4:4-5 "Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness."
 
Relentless said:
Of course it's an analogy. And the point is to convey a literal truth. It is an illustration of a concept.

Spiritually they can indeed "grab the rope" because they are "alive" enough to sin. They can understand the gospel message. If they can't, then the entire NT is a waste of words and a mockery of the offer to accept the Good News or reject it.

You still don't see what I'm saying about grabbing the rope. It is the acceptance of an offer. Jesus offers salvation to all, freely. Whoever accepts the offer is saved. This acceptance is not a work, and it does not require God to first "regenerate" the person. Faith comes by hearing, not by "irresistible grace". To say that God cannot throw anyone a rope is to say God cannot offer anyone a gift.

Scripture answers your question about whether faith is a work: Rom. 4:4-5 "Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness."
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You confuse spiritual deadness with physical deadness...

Explain this verse to me if indeed everyone can understand and believe the gospel as you say.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

This is parallel to Christ speaking about being born-again.

Do unborn children make a decision to be born?
 
Relentless said:
It tries to say that God causes sin but isn't responsible for it. It tries to say that God cannot know the future without causing it.
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I don't think that is what Calvinists believe. Permitting something to happen is way different from causing something to happen. The common misunderstanding is that people think Calvinists believe that God caused sin. I think they simply believe God allowed (or permitted) sin.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
You confuse spiritual deadness with physical deadness...

Explain this verse to me if indeed everyone can understand and believe the gospel as you say.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

This is parallel to Christ speaking about being born-again.

Do unborn children make a decision to be born?
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No confusion at all. It is Calvinism which uses "dead as Lazarus" to illustrate the reason they believe the lost are incapable of responding to the Gospel unless God first "regenerates" them. There are hundreds and hundreds of Calvinists who would affirm that analogy.

As for 1 Cor. 2:13-14, it says nothing close to "the lost cannot respond to the gospel". Paul is speaking of spiritual maturity and "the deeper things of God", not the simple, plain Gospel.

As for the unborn, yes, they technically do choose when to be born. It certainly isn't the mother's choice of timing.

Anyway, you have to keep ignoring the many, many, many scriptures speaking of the need for the lost to choose the gospel. And again, there is nothing about Calvinism that makes any difference at all in what the Gospel message is, who it's given to, and how people live once they accept it. So you may want to reconsider spending so much effort trying to justify it.
 
Ravindran said:
I don't think that is what Calvinists believe. Permitting something to happen is way different from causing something to happen. The common misunderstanding is that people think Calvinists believe that God caused sin. I think they simply believe God allowed (or permitted) sin.
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Cosmicwaffle has argued in this thread that nothing can happen without God causing it.
 
Relentless said:
No confusion at all. It is Calvinism which uses "dead as Lazarus" to illustrate the reason they believe the lost are incapable of responding to the Gospel unless God first "regenerates" them. There are hundreds and hundreds of Calvinists who would affirm that analogy.

As for 1 Cor. 2:13-14, it says nothing close to "the lost cannot respond to the gospel". Paul is speaking of spiritual maturity and "the deeper things of God", not the simple, plain Gospel.

As for the unborn, yes, they technically do choose when to be born. It certainly isn't the mother's choice of timing.

Anyway, you have to keep ignoring the many, many, many scriptures speaking of the need for the lost to choose the gospel. And again, there is nothing about Calvinism that makes any difference at all in what the Gospel message is, who it's given to, and how people live once they accept it. So you may want to reconsider spending so much effort trying to justify it.
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Do the lost need to accept the gospel? Absolutely! Will they without God's election and working of his Spirit? No.

Also, I think the notion an unborn child chooses to be born is ridiculous.

John 1:12-13
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Born of God! Not a decision we make.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
Do the lost need to accept the gospel? Absolutely! Will they without God's election and working of his Spirit? No.

Also, I think the notion an unborn child chooses to be born is ridiculous.

John 1:12-13
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Born of God! Not a decision we make.
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Yes, the lost can accept the gospel after hearing it; it has nothing to do with God first choosing them and regenerating them.

Medically, it is in fact the baby that sends out "labor" hormones.

John 1:12 begins with "to all who did receive him", followed (not preceded) by "he gave the right". First comes faith, then comes salvation. Born of God to be sure, but by faith, not election.

And as I said: it is pointless to debate whether people have free will, and Calvinism has no effect whatsoever on the Gospel message, to whom it is preached, or how believers live. You can go on and on and on about this, but I'm done.
 
To all my dear Arminian friends.. A couple of questions..

How do you interpret John 6:37-40?
Why the invitation of Gospel is in different degrees for different people? Why special treatment for Paul when so many other Jews persecuted Christians?
 
Ravindran said:
To all my dear Arminian friends.. A couple of questions..

How do you interpret John 6:37-40?
Why the invitation of Gospel is in different degrees for different people? Why special treatment for Paul when so many other Jews persecuted Christians?
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We could ask the same questions about the way Calvinists deal with John 12:32.

Re. Paul, does God not know who will respond and who will rebel?
 
Can any Calvinist explain how Calvinism makes a difference in the content of the Gospel message, the people to whom it is offered, or the way a Christian lives because of being a Calvinist?
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
So you are telling me that God truely and honestly desires every single man woman and child who ever lived to be saved, yet God cannot do it because man has the ability to choose? Is choice more sovereign than God?

I believe God is ALL-POWERFUL, that means if he wanted everyone saved, then everyone would be saved. If what you say is true then God will be eternally heartbroken because he failed to save people who Jesus shed his blood for. Can God be heartbroken? Can God fail? No.

I think Christians today are so in love with the idea of "Free-Will" that they let it mess up their theology.
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Brother there are many things God can not do, like lie!! Do you believe scripture when it says "God desire is that ALL MEN BE SAVED!!!
You do not need to have any education to understand that!
You have some kind of weird idea about God and in how he works. The lord does NOT create any beings that are forced to do anything. All men have a God given right to choose who they will serve, even angels are given this right. Have you ever had sorrow when someone dies without being saved? Guess where that came from? That feeling is not exclusive human beings, it came from God in whom we are created after. He is not like us, we are like him with all the same feelings he has. Yes the Lord has sorrow, long suffering when people go astray from what he desired for them to have.
 
Relentless said:
Can any Calvinist explain how Calvinism makes a difference in the content of the Gospel message, the people to whom it is offered, or the way a Christian lives because of being a Calvinist?
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There is no difference, but the Arminian gives glory to the men who preach the gospel and those who recieve it. Calvinists give all the glory to God.

Plus, we preach a different theology, so our beliefs are slightly different regarding the atonement and the salvation God gives.

But, Calvinism is not the gospel, it is merely the details surrounding it. Arminians are saved just as much as Calvinists are.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
There is no difference, but the Arminian gives glory to the men who preach the gospel and those who recieve it. Calvinists give all the glory to God.

Plus, we preach a different theology, so our beliefs are slightly different regarding the atonement and the salvation God gives.

But, Calvinism is not the gospel, it is merely the details surrounding it. Arminians are saved just as much as Calvinists are.
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No, cosmicwaffle, Arminians do not give glory to those who preach and receive the gospel. You are burning a straw man. And you're bordering on slander.

Your theology is irrelevant to salvation and holy living, and you admit that it preaches the same gospel, so to turn around and accuse anyone who doesn't accept Calvinism of taking glory from God is indeed slander, because it is a false accusation. Again, I could make many serious charges against Calvinism, against Calvin himself, and against his followers, but that isn't going to happen in this board.

Don't cross that line again.
 
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