Is God In Control of All Things

[Major]

In another thread I made the comment ...."And we know that, ultimately, God controls everything in the universe, including Satan. “In all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” as seen in Rom. 8:28.

My brother Fish Catcher Jim disagreed with me and said..........
"Major, no disrespect at all sir, but that is not even right. So if God controls the devil it was kind of lame for Jesus to commission us to cast out the devil and lay hands on the sick and so forth, I mean after all, God controls the devil."

He suggested that I start another thread so here it is.

I am of the understanding that God controls everything and He is in charge of everything. That my friends is the doctrine of "The Omniscience of God."

Psalm 115:3 .........
"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases."

Ephesians 1:11 ........
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Isaiah 45:7 ..........
"I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things."

Here is something else to think about before you answer. Many will argue that we have "Free Will". That is absolutely correct and Biblical. However, Our wills are only free to the extent that God allows us that freedom and no farther.
Now before you disagree, please be ready to refute Daniel 4:35 which says..................
“All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’”.

No one’s free will trumps the sovereignty of God.

Now..........Do you believe that God is in control of all things or not?

 

[Cturtle]

Nope I sure don't. Not here on this earth. Only in heaven.

Being that God is spirit, he just like any other spirit has to have a willing host to conduct His affairs (for now). That's why Jesus's birth had to be prophesied by a prophet before it could be fulfilled.

We are Gods mouthpieces here in the earth. If we don't speak His Word it will not come to pass. For God has given men all authority in this earth. He has none unless we give it to Him.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

sovereignty of God.

Hi Major,
Before I move forward here let's look at this one phrase which keeps popping up.

Sovereignty of God.

Now then this is not even scripture.

Yes you can find it in a few modern day translations - but it is not in the older versions.

So where did this phrase come from?
It gets used over and over to excuse something.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Cturtle]

I am of the understanding that God controls everything and He is in charge of everything. That my friends is the doctrine of "The Omniscience of God."

Psalm 115:3 .........
"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases."

Don't forget about......
The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth has He given to the children of men.
Psalm 115:16 AMPC
http://bible.com/8/psa.115.16.AMPC

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

This is to Every One Including Myself.

A Friendly Reminder

No Matter What
We are to conduct ourselves as True Children of God With His Spirit Living in us.

So through your posting in this thread, which of the following Best Describes Your Behavior and Actions?

But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
So ask yourself what spirit am I operating under as I post?
Be at peace and type through Love
Blessings
FCJ

 

[Major]

Don't forget about......
The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth has He given to the children of men.
Psalm 115:16 AMPC
http://bible.com/8/psa.115.16.AMPC

Agreed! But that does not say that God is not in control. It says that God has allowed man the privilege of living on the earth.

Now for proper context, look at the verse directly above verse 16 as Psalms 115:15, asserts that he is also their Lord and Governor, to dispose of all men and things as he pleaseth.

"You are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.".

It seems like to me that these confirm the Creation more than anything else.

 

[Major]

Hi Major,
Before I move forward here let's look at this one phrase which keeps popping up.

Sovereignty of God.

Now then this is not even scripture.

Yes you can find it in a few modern day translations - but it is not in the older versions.

So where did this phrase come from?
It gets used over and over to excuse something.

Blessings
FCJ

OK.

My understanding has always been that Sovereignty means that God, as the ruler of the Universe, has the right to do whatever he wants. Further, he is in complete control over everything that happens. The actually word does not have to be in the Scriptures to make it a Biblical teaching. The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching practice
used as a technical word used to describe what God does.

I base my understanding on several Bible verses.

Psalm 115:3 King James Version ...........
"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased."

Daniel 4:35 KJV............
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

Romans 9:20 (KJV)...............
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus."

Col. 1:16....ESV...........
"God created all things and holds all things together, both in heaven and on earth, both visible and invisible".

Part of God's sovereignty is that despite our unworthiness, He chooses to love and save us anyway. He gives everyone the freedom to accept or reject his love.

 

[Cturtle]

Now for proper context, look at the verse directly above verse 16 as Psalms 115:15, asserts that he is also their Lord and Governor, to dispose of all men and things as he pleaseth.

"You are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.".

I really don't agree that this is the proper context and backs up your claim.

It just says that a person who worships and obeys the Lord is blessed as in the verses above that......

He will bless those who reverently and worshipfully fear the Lord, both small and great. [Ps. 103:11; Rev. 11:18; 19:5.] May the Lord give you increase more and more, you and your children. May you be blessed of the Lord, Who made heaven and earth!
Psalm 115:13‭-‬15 AMPC
http://bible.com/8/psa.115.13-15.AMPC

It all involves a choice

Blessings

 

[Major]

This is to Every One Including Myself.

A Friendly Reminder

No Matter What
We are to conduct ourselves as True Children of God With His Spirit Living in us.

So through your posting in this thread, which of the following Best Describes Your Behavior and Actions?

But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
So ask yourself what spirit am I operating under as I post?
Be at peace and type through Love
Blessings
FCJ

Good question! I hope that I am seen as all of those wonderful things. That is my goal and if I am not then I need to go away or keep my mouth shut.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Good question! I hope that I am seen as all of those wonderful things. That is my goal and if I am not then I need to go away or keep my mouth shut.

That's something All of us need to put forth into practice. If a post gets your flesh up then shut down and try again later.

With you my friend, I count on the fact that we can trust each other to not respond with an attack.
Blessings
FCJ

 

[Abdicate]

In another thread I made the comment ...."And we know that, ultimately, God controls everything in the universe, including Satan. “In all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” as seen in Rom. 8:28.

My brother Fish Catcher Jim disagreed with me and said..........
"Major, no disrespect at all sir, but that is not even right. So if God controls the devil it was kind of lame for Jesus to commission us to cast out the devil and lay hands on the sick and so forth, I mean after all, God controls the devil."

He suggested that I start another thread so here it is.

I am of the understanding that God controls everything and He is in charge of everything. That my friends is the doctrine of "The Omniscience of God."

Psalm 115:3 .........
"Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases."

Ephesians 1:11 ........
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Isaiah 45:7 ..........
"I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things."

Here is something else to think about before you answer. Many will argue that we have "Free Will". That is absolutely correct and Biblical. However, Our wills are only free to the extent that God allows us that freedom and no farther.
Now before you disagree, please be ready to refute Daniel 4:35 which says..................
“All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’”.

No one’s free will trumps the sovereignty of God.

Now..........Do you believe that God is in control of all things or not?

Yes, and no!

Brother, you dismiss free will too quickly. God set into motion laws and He has chosen (CHOSEN) to abide by those laws. We have no explination as to why the devil was given the keys to the world after Adam sinned, but it happened. We also do not understand why, in order to save us, Jesus had to come physically and destroy Satan in the flesh as a human, but He did. We don't know why after defeating Satan he still has dominion over the world, but he does.

Here's my two cents and I have a lot of pennies.

When God created the angels, they were the most powerful created creatures next to God Himself. Then God created man and made MAN the ruler of the universe. The devil didn't like that a rebelled. Yet he still comes and goes (see the book of Job) to do what his name means, to be "the accuser" - haSatan. The Hebrew letters of his name is shin, tet, nun which have a meaning of "destruction," "snake," "seed". He's the destructive snake that's after the seed! (Gen 3:15) But I digress! Since Jesus came, evil still abounds. Why? The sole explanation is man's free will. How do I know this?

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

God doesn't want us to die and go to hell, yet it happens. Another law is at work here. This by no means indicates that God is not in control. When He calls someone to go to the mission field and they don't go, He calls another. His volition will be done, and through willing obedient humans on earth with assistance from heaven. This is why Jesus had to come as a man, solely as a man, to die as a man, so we could be saved.

Why? Because God gave man two things at creation: creativity and freedom. We can create another soul, and we have the freedom to do as we please. Scientists have observed that the moment a sperm enters an egg, light is given off. They are beyond confused by this. There is nothing (NOTHING) that can do that in the cells. So what is it? Simple. God is Light, and when a human is conceived (sperm enters an egg) He places a bit of Him in us. This is why He loves us so much. His life is in us. Since God is love, He loves us. Since God is free to do as He pleases, so is man and that is why Jesus said:

John 10:34 (KJV)

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? ​

Though we are fashioned like God we only possess two gifts from Him, creativity and freedom. But, God has a plan. His plan will be fulfilled, and He knows how to go about doing it because He knows the end from the beginning. Nothing is a surprise to Him. It's funny, He has a plan, if we follow it, we are rewarded and many times given the glory for it, even though it was #1 His idea, #2 by His grace and #3 by His power, yet many times we get the glory, though, we need to boast in the Lord for our abilities by His grace and gifts to us.

So your statement of "No one’s free will trumps the sovereignty of God," is nullified by 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The actually word does not have to be in the Scriptures to make it a Biblical teaching.

Hi Major,
Now I am responding to this quote from where the Father has me.
For me and my house......if there can be no scripture to back up Any Teaching then it is nothing more then a religious saying handed down through the ages.

Actually if it is not backed by scripture then it's not a teaching from the written word of God.

The Sovereignty of God is the biblical teaching practice
used as a technical word used to describe what God does.

From who?
Again if I can not find scripture to back this then it is not correct for me.

Sovereignty means that God, as the ruler of the Universe, has the right to do whatever he wants. Further, he is in complete control over everything that happens.

Actually within the book of The Revelation of Jesus - one can find when God takes back this earth and is in control.

So then God is responsible for All this Evil and killing and raping in this world?.....there is a lot of evil in this world.

If God is in total control of Everything in this earth there could be no "If"

How ever the written word of God is full of If you choose this or if you do this then you will get these results.

Again this is where I am.
Blessings
FCJ

 

[Major]

Hi Major,
Now I am responding to this quote from where the Father has me.
For me and my house......if there can be no scripture to back up Any Teaching then it is nothing more then a religious saying handed down through the ages.

Actually if it is not backed by scripture then it's not a teaching from the written word of God.



From who?
Again if I can not find scripture to back this then it is not correct for me.



Actually within the book of The Revelation of Jesus - one can find when God takes back this earth and is in control.

So then God is responsible for All this Evil and killing and raping in this world?.....there is a lot of evil in this world.

If God is in total control of Everything in this earth there could be no "If"

How ever the written word of God is full of If you choose this or if you do this then you will get these results.

Again this is where I am.
Blessings
FCJ

I understand what you are saying but I can not agree with you. I in fact posted a dozen or so Scriptures which specifically stated that God knows who we are, where we are and why we are what we are.

I think to reject something because the actual "Word" is not found in the Scriptures is very short sided my brother. Again.....the word "Soventry" is the word given to the process.
It is not a magical word or a deceptive word, it is just a word that explains a Bible teaching. In Seminaries and Universities this process is called "Implied truth".

For example, if you looked at a page of figures and they were A + B = 24: and 2 = AB x 3 = 124. The name given to that process would be "Algebra".
If we looked at another page and it said ......A right angle is 180 degrees to the center we would then understand that process as 'Geometry".

Those names, just as much as Soventry are "Words" used to describe the teaching process involved therein, no more and no less.

I know you believe in the Trinity as you have said that many times. But the "Word" trinity is not in the Scriptures. Why would you reject the "Soventry" and its meaning which is all through the Scriptures but then turn around and accept the Trinity which is not in the Scriptures.

Same as with the word "Bible". You and I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. But the word Bible is not found in the Bible.

The Rapture is the same thing. It is not found in the Bible but its explanation is all through the Bible.

Then you stated........If God is sovereign, is He responsible for evil?

No. That is just not the case at all Jim. Scripture says that when God finished His creation, He saw everything and declared it "very good" in Genesis 1:31. That was true then and it is just as true today. There are more Scriptures than I can post that affirm that God is not the author of evil:

James 1:13 says.............
"God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone".

1 John 1:5....................
"God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all".

1 Corth. 14:33...................
"God is not the author of confusion" —and if that is true, He cannot in any way be the author of evil.


It must be understood that Evil originates not from God but from the fallen creature.

I do not agree with everything that John Calvin wrote but I do agree with his comment of..................
"Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity-which is closer to us-rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination. [Institutes, 3:23:8]

It is helpful, I think, to understand that sin is not itself a thing created. Sin is neither substance, being, spirit, nor matter. So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply alack of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures. Sin then comes from the process of "Freedom of Choice".

To Biblically confirm these comments, Romans 5:12 says that death entered the world because of sin. Death, pain, disease, stress, exhaustion, calamity, and all the bad things that happen came as a result of the entrance of sin into the universe which goes back to Genesis 3:14-24.

All those evil effects of sin continue to work in the world and will be with us as long as sin is.

This is where I am personally and Biblically.

 

[Major]

Yes, and no!

Brother, you dismiss free will too quickly. God set into motion laws and He has chosen (CHOSEN) to abide by those laws. We have no explination as to why the devil was given the keys to the world after Adam sinned, but it happened. We also do not understand why, in order to save us, Jesus had to come physically and destroy Satan in the flesh as a human, but He did. We don't know why after defeating Satan he still has dominion over the world, but he does.

Here's my two cents and I have a lot of pennies.

When God created the angels, they were the most powerful created creatures next to God Himself. Then God created man and made MAN the ruler of the universe. The devil didn't like that a rebelled. Yet he still comes and goes (see the book of Job) to do what his name means, to be "the accuser" - haSatan. The Hebrew letters of his name is shin, tet, nun which have a meaning of "destruction," "snake," "seed". He's the destructive snake that's after the seed! (Gen 3:15) But I digress! Since Jesus came, evil still abounds. Why? The sole explanation is man's free will. How do I know this?

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

God doesn't want us to die and go to hell, yet it happens. Another law is at work here. This by no means indicates that God is not in control. When He calls someone to go to the mission field and they don't go, He calls another. His volition will be done, and through willing obedient humans on earth with assistance from heaven. This is why Jesus had to come as a man, solely as a man, to die as a man, so we could be saved.

Why? Because God gave man two things at creation: creativity and freedom. We can create another soul, and we have the freedom to do as we please. Scientists have observed that the moment a sperm enters an egg, light is given off. They are beyond confused by this. There is nothing (NOTHING) that can do that in the cells. So what is it? Simple. God is Light, and when a human is conceived (sperm enters an egg) He places a bit of Him in us. This is why He loves us so much. His life is in us. Since God is love, He loves us. Since God is free to do as He pleases, so is man and that is why Jesus said:

John 10:34 (KJV)

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? ​

Though we are fashioned like God we only possess two gifts from Him, creativity and freedom. But, God has a plan. His plan will be fulfilled, and He knows how to go about doing it because He knows the end from the beginning. Nothing is a surprise to Him. It's funny, He has a plan, if we follow it, we are rewarded and many times given the glory for it, even though it was #1 His idea, #2 by His grace and #3 by His power, yet many times we get the glory, though, we need to boast in the Lord for our abilities by His grace and gifts to us.

So your statement of "No one’s free will trumps the sovereignty of God," is nullified by 2 Peter 3:9.

I appreciate your thoughts but I am going to have to disagree with you and stand by my original comment.

"No ones free will trumps the sovereignty of God".

I do not see 2 Peter 3:9 as speaking to the sovereignty of God being usurped by mans free choices. Peter says that it is God's will that none should perish but that all should come to repentance. That is God's will but it will not be mans choice in every decision. Verse 9 is a promise from God that He will keep His promise to save every sinner He chose in times past before the creation.

When our interpretation of Scripture puts limits on God, we know our interpretation is wrong. Every instance I know of wherein men do such a thing has been founded on a view of man that is too high and a view of God that is too low. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Abdicate]

Acknowledged.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Let's look at the phrase
THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD

The word “sovereign” is not used in the King James Version of the Bible. It is used 303 times in the Old Testament of the New International Version, but it is always used in association with the word “LORD” and is the equivalent of the King James Version’s “LORD God.” Not a single one of those times is the word “sovereign” used in the manner that it has come to be used in religion in our day and time.

Religion has resulted in the invention of a new meaning for the word “sovereign,” which basically means God controls everything. Nothing can happen but what He wills or allows. However, there is nothing in the actual definition that states that.
The dictionary defines “sovereign” as,
1. Paramount; supreme.
2. Having supreme rank or power.
3 Independent: a sovereign state.
4. Excellent.
None of these definitions means that God controls everything.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

This verse makes it clear that some things are from God, and some from the devil. We must submit to the things that are of God and resist the things that are from the devil. The word “resist” means, “Actively fight against.” Saying “Whatever will be will be” is not actively fighting against the devil.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Cturtle]

So your statement of "No one’s free will trumps the sovereignty of God," is nullified by 2 Peter 3:9.

I also think that 1 Timothy 2: 3-4 backs up 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

"No ones free will trumps the sovereignty of God".

And

I do not see 2 Peter 3:9 as speaking to the sovereignty of God being usurped by mans free choices. Peter says that it is God's will that none should perish but that all should come to repentance. That is God's will but it will not be mans choice in every decision. Verse 9 is a promise from God that He will keep His promise to save every sinner He chose in times past before the creation.

2Peter3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

See God's Will is that Every Man be Saved
Free Will Allows man to Either Accept this or Reject it.

That is why for now we are under the season of Grace. God is waiting Patiently until His set time and He will call this done and take back Full Control in this earth. We see this time in the book of The Revelation of Jesus.

The god or ruler of this world at this time is working 24/7/365 to prevent as many as he can from Accepting this Priceless Gift of Salvation.

One Avenue is cute little religious sayings that are Devastating to All that Swallow and believe them.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

All means All
God's Desire, Will and Ultimate Gift

Some means Some
Man's free will, freedom of choice, to Accept or Deny God's Ultimate Gift.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Some versions replace Have with Desires

2Peter3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This shows that God Wants All Men To Be Saved..........

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1John2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Cturtle]

All means All
God's Desire, Will and Ultimate Gift

Some means Some
Man's free will, freedom of choice, to Accept or Deny God's Ultimate Gift.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Some versions replace Have with Desires

2Peter3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This shows that God Wants All Men To Be Saved..........

Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1John2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Blessings
FCJ

These verses also go with what your saying
And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross], [Num. 21:9.] In order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever! For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation–he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]
John 3:14‭-‬18 AMPC
http://bible.com/8/jhn.3.14-18.AMPC