I have not walked away from the discussion. I am still resolved in the Truth .
Is God your AUTHORITY?
- Thread starter Truth
- Start date
You may not have walked away but you keep posting the same 2 Bible verses!
By simply reposting the same two verses means that you did not understand post #220.
What part then did you not understand from those 2 verses as explained????
Correct! Baptism is one of the products OF being saved and not the cause of being saved!
BECAUSE we have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ we THEN want to be baptized so that we can identify with His death, burial and resurrection.
This is new for you Euphemia because I know that you have been walking with Christ for some time. It is just biblical theology of Christian living. It is living the Christian life by grace through faith. We were ALL saved by grace through faith in Christ; we live it by grace through faith in Him. This new position we have in Christ is a vital union with Him. We are now identified with Christ. It is an intimate love relationship with Christ brought about by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit in our hearts the moment we repented and believed on Christ. We are new creatures in Christ. THEN because of that fact we want to follow in believers baptism, not to be saved but to identify with Christ.
Never just take the word of anyone ,but study for yourself .
I divide the new testament scriptures in this way . Look for yourself to see if this is true.
Matthew, Mark ,Luke and John
They are showing the way to the newcovenant. Jesus is training the Apostles, and most important of all they tell of the LOVE that God and Jesus HAS for us, by the sacrifice that THEY allowed . The cruel suffering Crucifixion death and the sheding of the blood of the only perfect sacrifice " Jesus Christ , and His burialand resurrection and ascension to sit on His throne ,at the right hand of theFather ,to be the King of His Kingdom,the new covenant for all peoples ( Jew and gentiles ).
Acts
Shows the acts of conversions and gives the requirements of God to become His children.
Romans through Revelations
Are the conversations / letters written to people who had already became the children of God . These correspondence are praising , rebuking and admoniting those who had already become God's children .These letters are not telling them what they must do to become children of God , they telling them how to remain His children .
ALWAYS read ,check and STUDY for yourself to see if what you have been told is the Truth.
A very important thing to understand.
EVERYTHING that Jesus Christ performed and said before His Death ,Burial and Resurrection would have been under the Law of Moses.
IMO....The gospels announced that the King of Israel, the Messiah, had arrived. For centuries the Jewish prophets had proclaimed that a Messiah-King would come to establish an earthly kingdom in which He would rule.
The book of Acts forms a bridge between the Gospels and Paul’s epistles. If you will do the work, you will find that almost every commentator on Acts maintains its purpose is to tell the story of the birth and growth of the church.
It would help your understanding to realize that each book of the New Test. is for a different reason.
Romans for example has the main theme of its letter is obvious of course—righteousness. Guided by the Holy Spirit, Paul first condemns all men of their sinfulness.
Rev. has nothing to do with church doctrine at all and is directed to the future and not how to remain a believer.
Hewbrews is directed to those JEWS who were never saved to begin with.
Hopefully this is a suitable thread to discuss some questions about baptism I've been thinking over. I'm hoping to learn from the insights of my brothers and sisters here.
I probably started really trying to understand baptism when I was serving alongside brothers and sisters from the Salvation Army. The Salvos, as you probably know, are not against water baptism, but eliminated it as part of their own practice as a practical response to a legitimate problem, which was the realization that "Christian" culture had become overly focused on outward appearance over inward change. (I believe the Salvos' uniform has ironically become the very thing they'd hoped to avoid, in many ways, but that's another discussion)
As I was thinking over these things, I've been left with questions. I'm not convinced that any view I've encountered on baptism can answer them sufficiently.
There is of course the famous debate over the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5. Is the "one baptism" we share in John's water baptism, or the baptism Christ promised in Acts 1:5?
Secondly, there is a very interesting passage involving the "two baptisms" in Acts 10:34-48. I think this passage is relevant to this discussion and asks questions that may be difficult for anyone among us to answer. You'll notice that Peter explains the requirements for salvation through Christ in this way: "the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." As the gentiles are listening, the Holy Spirit comes upon them, and they begin speaking in tongues. After they receive this spiritual baptism (i.e., Acts 1:5), Peter comments that now there is nothing preventing their water baptism, and in fact, he orders their baptism.
I suppose it would be much simpler if this passage simply told us whether Peter orders their water baptism as an additional requirement to salvation beyond his explanation "everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins," or simply as an outward sign of what's already taken place inside: if you like, a bold declaration to the church that God has offered salvation equally to all peoples.
Ultimately, though, I expect if we try to answer a question something like "what are the absolute minimal requirements to get you a ticket into heaven," we may come up short of a satisfying answer, because I don't think that's the right way of thinking about being a disciple of Christ. Questions like "What kind of life does God want to teach me to live?" are a lot more likely to produce relevant answers from scripture.
Your thoughts?
Baptism comes from Tevilah. Jews would fully immerse themselves in water for purification of their soul. John adopted this practice. It was a brilliant proposal by him. It made the message of Jesus hit home instantly. ''Be immersed in Jesus and you will be truly purified''. Of course we don't need to literally do it to be saved. But not doing it raises more questions then doing it imho. It is like breaking bread. Why would anyone not submit to it?
When the light goes on about a thing, it stays on. We move on to other truths, from milk to meat, praise God!
Hebrews 6:1-2
With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn’t repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God. 2 We shouldn’t repeat the basic teachings about such things as baptisms, setting people apart for holy tasks, dead people coming back to life, and eternal judgment.
Baptism symbolizes full immersion / submission to Jesus. Full submission to Jesus is Christianity 101. Being dunked in water as a sign to all of this was simply Johns contribution to Christianity.
The truth is found in looking at all scripture from day 1. The manner in which God dealt with mankind from day 1. From Adam to Paul, God's only expectation of mankind has always been true repentance. Gospel OT = Repent and God finds you / you find God. Gospel NT = Repent and God finds you / you find Jesus.
All correct, Major...but it isn't new for me! I know you just made typo! 'Tis OK.
Keep up the good work!
I am so sorry Euhemia!!! Please do forgive me and when you read the rest of the comment I think you can see what I was trying to say.
I thought I said ....."Was NOT new to you". At least that was what was on my mind.
Is their another Bible doctrine you would like to talk about because quite frankly we have beaten this one to death and there is not going to be any movement from you and certainly not from the rest of us.
We are just going back and forth over the same comments .....so what else would you like to discuss?
Hi Major,
Now you simply said what I have been saying...........it has been many moons and no one has changed their views. How much more needs to be said that has not already been said. I was just saying it is time to allow the Holy Spirit and the written word of God work. From what I have seen - more work gets done when one is quiet and their minds are not in full swing. Know what I mean ?
Blessings My Friend
Jim
MO....The gospels announced that the King of Israel, the Messiah, had arrived. For centuries the Jewish prophets had proclaimedthat a Messiah-King would come toestablish an earthly kingdom in whichHewould rule.
This is a post of Major .
It is not true that the prophets prodicted that Jesus would set up a kingdom on earth .John 18 :36 Jesus said ,My kingdom is not of this world ,if My kingdom were of this world ,then would My servants fight ,that I should not be delivered to the jews,but now is My kingdom not from hence.
This is a post of Major .
It is not true that the prophets prodicted that Jesus would set up a kingdom on earth .John 18 :36 Jesus said ,My kingdom is not of this world ,if My kingdom were of this world ,then would My servants fight ,that I should not be delivered to the jews,but now is My kingdom not from hence.
Jesus will rule and reign in His earthly Kingdom!
Isaiah 2:1-4
2 This is a vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
2 In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house
will be the highest of all—
the most important place on earth.
It will be raised above the other hills,
and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
3 People from many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of Jacob’s God.
There he will teach us his ways,
and we will walk in his paths.”
For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion;
his word will go out from Jerusalem.
4 The Lord will mediate between nations
and will settle international disputes.
They will hammer their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will no longer fight against nation,
nor train for war anymore.
Isaiah 2:1-4
2 This is a vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
2 In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house
will be the highest of all—
the most important place on earth.
It will be raised above the other hills,
and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
3 People from many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of Jacob’s God.
There he will teach us his ways,
and we will walk in his paths.”
For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion;
his word will go out from Jerusalem.
4 The Lord will mediate between nations
and will settle international disputes.
They will hammer their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will no longer fight against nation,
nor train for war anymore.
Jerusalem was on the high mountain.
Good question. From what I understand, there are some believers who don't view it as something we're asked to submit to. In the example of the Salvation Army, they stopped baptising because culturally, it had stopped being something people "submitted to" and had instead become something people did to assert their status/superiority. I'm not sure that the Salvo's response to that situation was the best response, or even a successful response, but it does pose interesting questions about the relationship between our actions that we can label as submission/obedience, and the attitude of our hearts when we carry out those actions. It's worth talking about, anyway.
For all of those that are reading this thread .Please pay very close attention to the progressive differences that the posters try , to make the truth invalid.
Acts 2:38 baptism for the remission of sins.
Acts 22:38 bapism to wash away sins.
Very simple and true statements by the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38 baptism for the remission of sins.
Acts 22:38 bapism to wash away sins.
Very simple and true statements by the Holy Spirit.
It still is, and that is where Jesus will come to establish His reign, taking on the throne of David as promised.
Jesus will indeed take up the throne of David and rule His earthly Kingdom as the word says---with a rod of iron. This Kingdom will last 1000 years.
Of course His Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom, but He also has promised to establish His rule on Earth...then the New Earth forever.
Study the word of God and receive it as His authority.