You cannot dictate the relationship between an another's individual and God. You can never tell which person is saved or not. You don't know what's in their hearts.
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Is It Ever Okay To Lie?
- Thread starter Kayte
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You cannot dictate the relationship between an another's individual and God. You can never tell which person is saved or not. You don't know what's in their hearts.
One version of the Ten Commandments recognizes at least three kinds of lying like fraud, perjury, and deception.
In Moby Dick, Herman Melville insists that a whale is a fish. I suspect that was due to his lack of understanding, not due to any malice, so he didn't lie about the nature of whales. He just did not understand about whales. Or if he did misrepresent the nature of whales, then it would be some kind of false image, which could be forbidden by the first or second commandment. I'm not sure which.
Deception or fraud would be saying that the camel is loaded with the Balm of Gilead when it is really loaded with rocks, so that people invest in the camel train when it has no chance of a profit. This kind of false intent is forbidden by the commandment which forbids taking the Lord’s name. Don't swear to God that you love me, when you really love Becky Thatcher or Amy Lawrence. If you say that you intend to deliver the load Balm to Egypt, then you should attempt to fulfill that contract.
If you do fail to deliver the load of Balm to Egypt, then you must testify truthfully about the reasons. Were the camels loaded with rocks or did thieves steal the Balm?
If my mother has a hideous new dress, and she asks if I think that it is pretty, then I will be polite. I won't debate about whether that could be lying, and if Immanuel Kant doesn't like that then so be it. Actually, I don’t know much about Kant, but as I understand, he had odd ideas about truth.
In Moby Dick, Herman Melville insists that a whale is a fish. I suspect that was due to his lack of understanding, not due to any malice, so he didn't lie about the nature of whales. He just did not understand about whales. Or if he did misrepresent the nature of whales, then it would be some kind of false image, which could be forbidden by the first or second commandment. I'm not sure which.
Deception or fraud would be saying that the camel is loaded with the Balm of Gilead when it is really loaded with rocks, so that people invest in the camel train when it has no chance of a profit. This kind of false intent is forbidden by the commandment which forbids taking the Lord’s name. Don't swear to God that you love me, when you really love Becky Thatcher or Amy Lawrence. If you say that you intend to deliver the load Balm to Egypt, then you should attempt to fulfill that contract.
If you do fail to deliver the load of Balm to Egypt, then you must testify truthfully about the reasons. Were the camels loaded with rocks or did thieves steal the Balm?
If my mother has a hideous new dress, and she asks if I think that it is pretty, then I will be polite. I won't debate about whether that could be lying, and if Immanuel Kant doesn't like that then so be it. Actually, I don’t know much about Kant, but as I understand, he had odd ideas about truth.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Just spotted this thread now.
I think a distinction should be made between a deliberate deception and a well-intentioned falsehood intended to lift someone's spirits or make them feel good about themselves. I wouldn't term the latter as a "lie" exactly. It's more of a loaded word than "falsehood" but I wouldn't use the two words interchangeably.
I think a distinction should be made between a deliberate deception and a well-intentioned falsehood intended to lift someone's spirits or make them feel good about themselves. I wouldn't term the latter as a "lie" exactly. It's more of a loaded word than "falsehood" but I wouldn't use the two words interchangeably.
Lying. Something I just don't do.
Some things we are asked are no one's business.
Some information demanded of us can endanger us in today's world.
BUT
If someone asks something of me that I see as none of their business, I tell them that it isn't any of their business, and I have not yet had that person persist in receiving an answer. If they did, that would be laughable.
But when it comes to such things as putting personal information out on the Internet, I don't tell the whole truth. In fact, I shade the truth. Thinking more deeply about this, I do not give out certain demanded information, actually changing it. I cannot purposely take this risk.
Some things we are asked are no one's business.
Some information demanded of us can endanger us in today's world.
BUT
If someone asks something of me that I see as none of their business, I tell them that it isn't any of their business, and I have not yet had that person persist in receiving an answer. If they did, that would be laughable.
But when it comes to such things as putting personal information out on the Internet, I don't tell the whole truth. In fact, I shade the truth. Thinking more deeply about this, I do not give out certain demanded information, actually changing it. I cannot purposely take this risk.
No. The scriptures teach us that in all things we must speak the truth. In John's Epistle it tells us that no lie is of the truth! So the simple answer is no! Remember, the scriptures teach us that Satan is the father of lies. To tell lies is to imitate Satan and not Jesus. In the Psalms it tells us that one of the clearest signs that a person is a sinner and not a believer is that he/she tells lies. The plain answer is no!
IMHO, it all depends on the circumstances and who you are lying to.
For instance: During WW2, nuns in a convent harbored Jewish children whose parents were murdered by the Nazis. The Nazis were looking for these children, to murder them. When the Nazis arrived at the convent, the leader asked the head nun if there were any children in the convent. The nun answered 'No'.
The nuns were avowed to never tell a lie. Yet the lie saved the lives of the children.
Now, what I have to say is just my point of view. The Nazis were on a mission of falsehood (sin), to find and murder Jewish children. The nun was confronted with a liar of the Truth. So telling a lie to the liar was of no loss to the liar.
Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
We are to live lives that are of faith. Lying is not of faith. Rather than lie she should of stood for truth in the power of the Spirit .
If asked questions that the answer could hurt someone physically or emotionally Answer in faithful prayer and GOD will give us an answer that glorifies HIM and is in no way of a lie, the Deceiver.
Amen, i do agree the that was a question , a mission of falsehood, of sin, of murder.
Basic truth : Thou shall not kill or murder.
As well as Law of Man, of modern man in this modern society that Murder is a Crime, it is a universal truth.
Case in Point:
Question:
If men of murderous intent approach one person: do you keep children here that deserves to die?
Answer:
No, none. no children here that deserves to die.
Analysis of the statements made:
Those murderous men will only say the one in blue font: “do you keep children here”
They will not say the one in red font because saying the red font “that deserves to die” will show the EVIL intent, that red font is a statement that FALSE, a LIE or simply WRONG.
In the CONTRAST with the answer:
The blue font is enough to be said: “No, none.”
No need to add “no children here that deserves to die” because it is a statement that is TRUE: no person is rightfully can be murdered by someone, which is a universal truth.
Did those Nuns lie?
No, they did not lied.
This is my opinion how i see it.
My reason, my logic, my own judgment says they did not lied, more so: they abide to the TRUTH.
As mentioned, my opinion, may God have mercy on me if I got it wrong, but that is how i see it.
Her faith is that she rather have God judge her heart and action and take whatever is deemed, then to have evil access and perish the children.
Perhaps the Holy Spirit in the nun said to say 'No'.
So God told her to sin?
Her faith was to sin in hope that God would work it out anyway?
That is not of God.
What a greater testimony it would have been if she would have stood in righteousness in faith knowing GOD would work it out one way or the other.
We are to live lives that are of faith. Lying is not of faith. Rather than lie she should of stood for truth in the power of the Spirit .
If asked questions that the answer could hurt someone physically or emotionally Answer in faithful prayer and GOD will give us an answer that glorifies HIM and is in no way of a lie, the Deceiver.
Hi, just curious on what other people see things, it expands my horizon and in accepting one another.
I have questions, in red font below:
Scenario:
The Nazis asked: "are there children here?"
Answer 1: "no, none, there is no children here that you can kill."
Question: is Answer No. 1 a lying statement?
Answer 2: "No, none."
Question: is Answer No. 2 a lying statement?
May you never be put in such an immediate life threatening situation.
Some questions are just hard to answer in the absolute.
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." Exodus 20:16 (NRSV) doesn't really address telling a falsehood, just bearing false witness against your neighborhood. So is it possible that there are circumstances in which not telling the truth is ok? Ok, before anyone jumps to a quick answer, how about this: Of my 25 years in law enforcement, eight of them were working undercover drugs. During these years, I lied all the time. Was that a sin?
After that, when I worked "general crimes," there were occasions when, during an interrogation, I dropped a lie or two. Case in point, telling one "bad guy" that he might as well tell the truth because there were surveillance cameras all around the place. Or telling one guy that his partner had already confessed the truth.
How about this one: Two days ago, one of by bible study brothers called and asked it I would be willing to meet him and notarized something for him. He called around 4:30 PM, shortly after I had gotten home from my day's work time drive home. My response was "No problems my brother, I'll meet you in the parking lot of the church." In reality, I would have rather set myself on fire than go back out in the Miami rush hour traffic. I got in my ride, went to the church, and did my thing. I did what he asked, but getting back in traffic was not a happy moment. I guess my initial reply could have been "Brother, I will meet you at church; however, I am doing this out of love cause I will hate every minute of the drive there or back."
How about a reply to the wife's question of "Honey, do I look ok in this dress?" with "Baby, that's a great looking dress."
rtm3039
I do not see a lie.
It seems they made an attempt to answer without lying.
However they may have said to much and would have cause suspicion.
Answer two is probably better.
Rather obvious at first glance one would think. A double negative though. LOL
"No none" meaning yes there are children here.
This is probably the best answer by far. I don't think many would catch it and it is definitely not a lie.
Nice post.
May we never, but if we are, may we have the Faith of Christ.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
(Rev 2:10 KJV)
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
(Php 3:8 KJV)
In response to the original post, and Peter Luke,
OF COURSE YOU LIE!
We use our own judgement in the crazy thing that is life. God gave us the ability to think, to rationalise each and every situation, and to evaluate our response to it.
Sometimes we are not sure. Then we pray and seek help. But if the Holy Spirit is working in us, he will surely tell us.
And he would most certainly tell us to save children.
And the feelings of others x
Its never okay to lie, there are lies that vary in degree depending on who you lie to, and what you lie about. White lies, blue lies, green lies, etc. All should be abandoned.
A bit late since I just joined.
I can't help but think of Rahab in this connection. She lied to save the Jewish spies and was saved by the Jews by hanging the scarlet (thread) out her window. The Bible doesn't directly condone or condemn her lie, but she was included in the lineage of Jesus!
I can't help but think of Rahab in this connection. She lied to save the Jewish spies and was saved by the Jews by hanging the scarlet (thread) out her window. The Bible doesn't directly condone or condemn her lie, but she was included in the lineage of Jesus!
Hello Softbreeze;
Great point about Rahab. You are correct as to why she lied, God knows all and is in the lineage of Christ.
Overall, a lie, small or great is a sin just as a sin, whether small or great is a sin. There is no consolation to our sins that God can condone.
God bless you, sister, and your family.