Israel and the Middle East

[Straightshot]

"Oil And WATER!"

There are water shortages in the Middle East
The drying of the Euphrates by the little horn seen in Daniel's visions will be part of his strategy to draw the portion of his eastern confederacy of the "kings of the east" to engage the Lord at the battle of Armageddon

This human king will be fully possessed by Satan's beast from the abyss .... I will discuss this relationship soon on this thread .... Abaddon-Apollyon is not human]

Revelation [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]
16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The biggest controversy in the Middle East is over Jerusalem and the temple mount between Israel and the Muslims .... this is the one will bring Armageddon

[Matthew 24:15-21]

 

[Straightshot]

The moderator of the above post seems a bit biased toward Islam [the "Palestinians" in this case] to an extent, but the viewer needs to look at what is going on in light of the related scriptures

Also, the remedy to this controversy as suggested will not come from the "Catholic" model of this "church" with their token holding in Jerusalem .... this offset between Israel and the Muslims will only be solved by the Lord Himself when He comes to settle the dispute [Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 14:4-9]

 

[Silk]

Haven't watched the video yet but going to as soon as I post this. Calling @Ravindran, @Brother Paul, @Patricia Dalmadge, & @dUmPsTeR because I think they will enjoy the dialogue. This thread promises good things. Impulsively, I told the woman who drove me to my errands that time was real short and it was important to get ready. I already knew she was a christian. SHe asked if I had heard about Paris and I said, yes. I have doubts we will see another election in the US. SHe said the world was just going crazy and no one seemed to notice. I reminded her I had told her about my sister in law who lives up the street from me, who when I complained what a rotten summer we had, told me we had a "beautiful summer." At the time the woman had asked me was she crazy? It rained 6 days out of 7 - nothing but flooding everywhere. I told her today, people look at you like youre crazy for saying the obvious. She has kids and grandkids but said she had been afraid to say anything to them. I said what will happen if you don't? Seriously, I don't think there's a lot of time. I agreed with her tho - it's like the world has gone blind and people get pissed when you bring it up. I told her to pray that the Holy Spirit moves those she loves and let Him lead her to how. She said, much later - Thanks. I said - Yes. Thank God. I don't know why I even brought it up except I care that she and hers are saved. I told her to start reading scripture because it's all in there and we are actually watching prophecy come true.

 

[Silk]

Eek...I forgot @Steven Eubanks and @Calvin.

 

[Straightshot]

The image in Daniel 2 describes Middle Eastern kingdoms, 3 of ancient the past, and 2 still to come

The first three are named and known by the historical record, neo-Babylon, Persian, and the two rival kingdoms, one north and one south of Israel existing just before the first century

Alexander's Asian conquering [belly of bronze] was not part of the Greek Empire of Athens, but remained of Middle Eastern culture .... Alexander experienced an early death just after His war victories and he never never ruled his holdings

His aborted rule was split between the larger Seleucid kingdom north of Israel and that of the Ptolemaic kingdom south of Israel [principally of Egypt] .... these two kingdoms represented by the thighs of the image were rivals, both attempting to conquer the other .... neither succeeded [Daniel 11:3-25]

The last king of the northern kingdom before the first century [Daniel 11:21-35] was Antiochus IV, he never conquered Egypt, desecrated the temple in Israel, and died while engaged in war against Persian opposition

At this point the vision moves to the time of the end of this present age [the time appointed] with a description of the last king of the north in the same region ... this one is the little horn of [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 11:36-45: 12:7]

This king will at first rule in the north [the northern leg of the image .... the iron kingdom]

Then he will conquer Egypt [the southern leg of the image] and will consolidate the entire Middle East into His kingdom of iron and clay with 10 other appointed Middle Eastern kings who will serve him

Roman and subsequent interlopers [there have been several] of the Middle East are not recorded in Daniel's visions, or any other prophets visions for that matter

Rome did not begin as two rival kingdoms, one north and one south of Israel .... so the iron legs do not represent the Roman empire as many teach

Only Middle Eastern kingdoms are contained in the visions and there is a breach still ongoing today that exists in the visions between the thighs and legs of the image, and the same between Daniel 11:35 and 11:36

The little horn is still a future king of the northern Middle East yet to arise, and when he does he will do the things described in [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27; and 11: 36 -45 and 12:7]

He will come out of the northern Middle East and move toward the south, toward the east; and toward Israel [Daniel 8:9] .... so all of the prior kingdoms of neo-Babylon, Persia, Seleucia, and Egypt will be under his rule .... today this region includes Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan] .... all Muslim states

And he is described as the "Assyrian" symbolic of the ancient Assyrian Empire that ruled the same territory [Micah 5:5-6] .... this empire had its core capital at Nineveh [Mosul, Iraq today]

Notice that his symbolic trappings are the same in Revelation 13:1-4 as recorded in Daniel's visions .... the leopard, bear, and lion

He will rule over the 4th kingdom of Daniel 7 with 10 other selected Middle Eastern kings .... he will up root 3 and replace them with his choosing [Revelation 17:8-18]

This is why the 4th kingdom is not named in Daniel 7, because it will be an out growth of the 3rd from which the little horn will come after a very long time ... at the time appointed [Daniel 11:35] ... this one is the king of the north described in Daniel [11:36-45; 12:7]

Daniel 2:40-43 also describes this 4th kingdom ... a dead on description of the Middle Eastern Muslims today .... mixed, but divided, ethnically mixed, but sectarian, some strong, some weak .... and in the days of these kingdoms will the Lord come !!!

Next we will find out why this human king is described as the first beast of Revelation's unfolding

The term "beast" used in Revelation is not a kingdom as used in Daniel's visions to describe human kingdoms, but another very different entity which we will see

And also why there will not be a tribulation temple of the Lord's build on the mount

Hold on .............. more to come

 

[Straightshot]

"I told her to start reading scripture because it's all in there and we are actually watching prophecy come true."


Good for you !!!

Keep telling those around you, preach the word .... you have the evidence

People need to know this .... it is a matter of life .... or death

 

[Abdicate]

I wonder if he read my book!!

 

[Straightshot]

Stone is one of the few Bible preachers left that stick to biblical Christianity and he makes good effort to teach truth for sure

I believe he does have much to offer and would only disagree with a few of his ideas

Thanks for posting the video

 

[Silk]

I have been thinking about things and while I have no problem and think Islam will produce the AC, I have problems letting go of Rome as the empire that overthrew the Greeks and became the 4th kingdom of iron. Iron personifies Rome of the time and no empire before or since matched them in terms of empire and owning all the people and lands prophesized in scripture by way of force, tribute and taxes. Christ was cruxicified by Rome, at the Sanhedrin's complaint. Christians were thrown to the lions and used as torches to sup at their Roman feasts. It is Rome that creates the diaspora, destroying the 2nd Temple in 70 AD. They might have had no love for Christians but they destroyed Israel. No sign of the two legs that are to come out of the hips of the statue. That happened 300 years or so later when Constantine founded Constantinople and then we see a separation of Rome between East and West. Constantine made Christianity the state religion but continued to allow most of his empire to continue their false worship. And the legs separated after his death. All of Europe was ruled by Rome, even to England and France, etc (but these outer lands particularly never held together again. The feet are a combination of clay and iron (traces of Rome/Holy Roman Empire) so what does the clay represent? I would say the whole world - east and west in whatever happens to combine them like Islam will be against little, incredibly tiny Israel. And once the restrainer is lifted, the tribulation starts. I agree with most of what you say, Straight, and I don't think Italy produces the AC but I think what ruled at Christ's time still is the 4th empire. I don't see how this scenario contradicts scripture. Show me - I want to learn.

 

[dUmPsTeR]

Haven't watched the video yet but going to as soon as I post this. Calling @Ravindran, @Brother Paul, @Patricia Dalmadge, & @dUmPsTeR because I think they will enjoy the dialogue. This thread promises good things. Impulsively, I told the woman who drove me to my errands that time was real short and it was important to get ready. I already knew she was a christian. SHe asked if I had heard about Paris and I said, yes. I have doubts we will see another election in the US. SHe said the world was just going crazy and no one seemed to notice. I reminded her I had told her about my sister in law who lives up the street from me, who when I complained what a rotten summer we had, told me we had a "beautiful summer." At the time the woman had asked me was she crazy? It rained 6 days out of 7 - nothing but flooding everywhere. I told her today, people look at you like youre crazy for saying the obvious. She has kids and grandkids but said she had been afraid to say anything to them. I said what will happen if you don't? Seriously, I don't think there's a lot of time. I agreed with her tho - it's like the world has gone blind and people get pissed when you bring it up. I told her to pray that the Holy Spirit moves those she loves and let Him lead her to how. She said, much later - Thanks. I said - Yes. Thank God. I don't know why I even brought it up except I care that she and hers are saved. I told her to start reading scripture because it's all in there and we are actually watching prophecy come true.

Thanks for the notice/invite to this thread; I've read through it and watched a little of the videos.

 

[Abdicate]

With all these attacks around the world, Ft. Hood, Sydney, Ottawa, Ax-man in NYC, Istanbul, and now Paris, I asked the Lord what's going on and I got this: Welcome to Israel!

Now Paris

NYC

DC

 

[dUmPsTeR]

"Oil And WATER!"

Yes, natural resources. Property. God owns it all; and yet greed and jealousy has so many laying claim to what truly is God's. Everything. We came into this world naked; and naked we shall leave it.

Mammon


Earthly goods; property; riches.
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and MAMMON. ( Matthew 6:24 )

1 thing I have been discovering, whether it is true or not, is countries(kingdoms) have been becoming corporations still purporting to be governments by non-disclosure. The minions, out of ignorance, or nescience (lack of knowledge)(also relates to agnosticism) have become property by and through their birth certificates and other documents.

Those in these 'shaddow' governments through acquiescence are selling these documents to international bankers and creating trust in order to finance these puppet governments. It looks like the governments are the biggest ones guilty of 'identity theft'.

I won't go into this anymore right now because I don't want to side-track the intent behind this thread, but I would be curious if anyone can relate this to prophetic scripture.

It is not my intention to teach; I am the student.

 

[dUmPsTeR]

@Abdicate It kind of relates to a lot of what I have been running into via my surfing the Net. Governments are trying to control, and the minions are questioning what is happening. Also, those being governed or lorded over are putting fear into those that want control.

P.S. I'll be getting back to your blog soon.

 

[Major]

I have been thinking about things and while I have no problem and think Islam will produce the AC, I have problems letting go of Rome as the empire that overthrew the Greeks and became the 4th kingdom of iron. Iron personifies Rome of the time and no empire before or since matched them in terms of empire and owning all the people and lands prophesized in scripture by way of force, tribute and taxes. Christ was cruxicified by Rome, at the Sanhedrin's complaint. Christians were thrown to the lions and used as torches to sup at their Roman feasts. It is Rome that creates the diaspora, destroying the 2nd Temple in 70 AD. They might have had no love for Christians but they destroyed Israel. No sign of the two legs that are to come out of the hips of the statue. That happened 300 years or so later when Constantine founded Constantinople and then we see a separation of Rome between East and West. Constantine made Christianity the state religion but continued to allow most of his empire to continue their false worship. And the legs separated after his death. All of Europe was ruled by Rome, even to England and France, etc (but these outer lands particularly never held together again. The feet are a combination of clay and iron (traces of Rome/Holy Roman Empire) so what does the clay represent? I would say the whole world - east and west in whatever happens to combine them like Islam will be against little, incredibly tiny Israel. And once the restrainer is lifted, the tribulation starts. I agree with most of what you say, Straight, and I don't think Italy produces the AC but I think what ruled at Christ's time still is the 4th empire. I don't see how this scenario contradicts scripture. Show me - I want to learn.

And that is my feelings as well.

Rev. 17:12-13.........
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."

Daniel 7:7-8.........
"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

Daniel 7:23-24...............
"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

It seems to me that the fourth beast is the revived Roman Empire, and the 10 horns represent the Kings of its member nations. The little horn, speaking great words, rises up and conquers three of those nations and their Kings. The little horn is Antichrist, who will rise to power through the revived Roman Empire. Of the 10 horns, three are subdued, likely because these three will resist the rise to power of Antichrist, and will object to his far-reaching powers. From this kingdom, and the reign of Antichrist," a global system of apostate religion, politics, and economics will come to fruition. Antichrist will temporarily rule over the entire earth during the three and one-half years of the Great Tribulation.

Daniel 2:41-43 also reveals that there would be a transformation, and the Roman Empire in existence at the time of the Second Coming would be quite different, as seen in the feet and toes of the statue:
"Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay."

 

[Straightshot]

"I have been thinking about things and while I have no problem and think Islam will produce the AC, I have problems letting go of Rome as the empire that overthrew the Greeks and became the 4th kingdom of iron."

You have only once source for truth on this matter .... the Bible prophets alone ... and none tell of a Roman kingdom of iron ..... this idea is a man made one and misplaced

I have explained why the Roman Empire is not a part of the same to an extent and will be adding further evidence of this truth as this thread progresses for you

Does this make any difference? .... it might .... one who is waiting for a revival of European standing will wait for a long long time for something that is not going to happen .... and this thinking could prevent some from getting serious about a true relationship with the Lord .... time is of the essence today

I would suggest that you spend more time with the prophets writings directly and take what you have been taught and set it aside .... also be skeptical of the many different interpretations and preconceived offerings on the Internet today .... you might as well go to Walmart and by a book

Nothing should be added to the prophet's records and not one of them has a view of any events upon the earth between the ending of the 69th week decreed for for Israel .... and the beginning of the 70th still pending .... you will not find them [and this includes ancient Rome and the inserted Euro-centric/Pope/ RCC folly .... and many other significant events of history over the past 2000 years .... things not described in the visions]

What people have done and do is to build things into the time lapse by false extrapolation in order to fit a proprietary idea designed for various purposes

For example: Herbert W. Armstrong who lead a spin off of the JW organization taught that Hitler was the beast and Mussolini was the false prophet .... obviously not true .... no prophet has either of these two characters in view .... wrong people, wrong place

This miss directed idea is still around today in form, but with manipulated adjustments

William Miller of the SDA predicted the dating of the Lord's second coming .... he was wrong, so EGW concocted an adjustment to make the error fit the same preconceived idea of a "revived" Pope lead Roman Empire along with the idea that the Lord was finished with His nation of Israel

Stick with the prophets and learn them first .... then make your comparisons and evaluations

 

[dUmPsTeR]

What people have done and do is to build things into the time lapse by false extrapolation in order to fit a proprietary idea designed for various purposes

For example: Herbert W. Armstrong who lead a spin off of the JW organization taught that Hitler was the beast and Mussolini was the false prophet .... obviously not true .... no prophet has either of these two characters in view .... wrong people, wrong place

Yep, at 1 time I was naive and read a lot of H. W. Armstrong. I strongly DON'T recommend his writings. What started me off NON-believing his doctrine was that he was a 'salesman'.

The only thing that I heed that he said is, 'leave anything up to man long enough, and he'll ruin it', and 'the sabbath is Saturday'.

 

[Silk]

I'm not taking my view from anything but scripture. (well..and actual history). Scripture via the NT, includes Rome - the empire which went "diverse" and remains with us today. It was not named by the OT prophets because Rome didn't exist then. I do not hold with a revived Roman empire because the roots of Rome resides, still, with us today. As east and west. Rome started as a Republic and only went to one ruler after Julius Ceasar (and thus the reign of the ceasars') just before Christ's time. It separated to east and west. Islam comes up in the east at 600 AD and hasn't stopped to this day. The 4th empire is long lived and for all intents and purposes east and west supply the legs with the right leg (west) "favored". But this scenario brings the full world of men, all men into the equation and this is required to fulfill prophecy. IF Islam, out of the east, attempts one world dominion, scripture tells us what will happen - they won't succeed because of Israel and it's protected state.

 

[Straightshot]

"Yep, at 1 time I was naive and read a lot of H. W. Armstrong. I strongly DON'T recommend his writings. What started me off NON-believing his doctrine was that he was a 'salesman"

There are spin offs today of HWA's teaching, but again with variations .... the WWCG continues under different pied pipers

The only reliable source for truth are the scriptures themselves .... not the inventions of men with ambitions to make merchandise of the hearers

The Bible prophets must be interpreted literally at face value, and where symbolism is given one can find the symbol defined literally in the context of the same passage or in other related scriptures

Interpretation must never be reduced to allegory and metaphor, datings must not be arbitrary set, and there are to be no speculative additions or deletions [Revelation 22:18-19]

And all of the prophetic scriptures can be understood correctly with the Lord's guidance over time .... He is not a God of confusion

 

[Major]

"I have been thinking about things and while I have no problem and think Islam will produce the AC, I have problems letting go of Rome as the empire that overthrew the Greeks and became the 4th kingdom of iron."

You have only once source for truth on this matter .... the Bible prophets alone ... and none tell of a Roman kingdom of iron ..... this idea is a man made one and misplaced

I have explained why the Roman Empire is not a part of the same to an extent and will be adding further evidence of this truth as this thread progresses for you

Does this make any difference? .... it might .... one who is waiting for a revival of European standing will wait for a long long time for something that is not going to happen .... and this thinking could prevent some from getting serious about a true relationship with the Lord .... time is of the essence today

I would suggest that you spend more time with the prophets writings directly and take what you have been taught and set it aside .... also be skeptical of the many different interpretations and preconceived offerings on the Internet today .... you might as well go to Walmart and by a book

Nothing should be added to the prophet's records and not one of them has a view of any events upon the earth between the ending of the 69th week decreed for for Israel .... and the beginning of the 70th still pending .... you will not find them [and this includes ancient Rome and the inserted Euro-centric/Pope/ RCC folly .... and many other significant events of history over the past 2000 years .... things not described in the visions]

What people have done and do is to build things into the time lapse by false extrapolation in order to fit a proprietary idea designed for various purposes

For example: Herbert W. Armstrong who lead a spin off of the JW organization taught that Hitler was the beast and Mussolini was the false prophet .... obviously not true .... no prophet has either of these two characters in view .... wrong people, wrong place

This miss directed idea is still around today in form, but with manipulated adjustments

William Miller of the SDA predicted the dating of the Lord's second coming .... he was wrong, so EGW concocted an adjustment to make the error fit the same preconceived idea of a "revived" Pope lead Roman Empire along with the idea that the Lord was finished with His nation of Israel

Stick with the prophets and learn them first .... then make your comparisons and evaluations

Question my brother. I understand your position that the Coming World Wide Empire will be the Eastern, Muslim part of the Old Roman Empire.

Daniel 9:26 says ............
26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Isn't that telling us that the Antichrist, referred to as "the prince who is to come," will be from "the people who destroy the Temple." Those people proved to be the Romans who destroyed the Temple in 70 AD.

Many well known Bible scholars have pointed to John 5:43 to argue that the Antichrist will be a Jew. That verse quotes Jesus as saying, "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another shall come in his own name, you will receive him."

The argument drawn from this statement is that the Antichrist must be a Jew in order for the Jews to accept him as their Messiah.

What prompts you to believe that the Jewish nation of Israel will accept a Muslim as one who will bring them a 7 year peace treaty as seen in Daniel 9:27.............
"And he (A/C) shall confirm the covenant(Peace Treaty) with many for one week7 years) and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

[Straightshot]

"I'm not taking my view from anything but scripture. (well..and actual history)"

This is you problem .... you are adding historical data that is not contained in the scope of the Bible prophets

Believe what you want Silk, but the Roman Empire is not in the prophetic vision which are all silent regarding the era of Rome's rule in the past .... and the revival of the same is not there either .... this is not going to happen and is an inserted speculation

And will will point out that Daniel's visions do name the second and third kingdoms in advance .... but not the fourth .... because the fourth is an outgrowth of the third still pending

.... Rome is not in the visions of any prophet and neither did Rome began as to rival kingdoms one north and one south of Israel as were the two divisions of the third .... this same divided setting is reflected by the two divided legs of iron still pending at this time

One leg will be the northern kingdom of the little horn and the other the southern kingdom of Egypt .... this divide is forming as we speak .... and the leader of Egypt will oppose the little horn's ambitions to rule over the entire Middle East to include to include Egypt [Daniel 11:40; 11:42]

These things are still pending, but not far off .... and the setting is certainly not one of ancient Rome's beginnings .... Rome's presence in the past was not at all or even close to the fulfillment of the vision for many reasons

The image refutes this idea; 1 head of gold, 2 arms and 1 chest of silver; 1 belly and 2 thighs of bronze; .... and 2 legs of iron [one defeated, and the other the forming the feet of iron and clay]

All exactly and precisely correct by the historical record through the third divided kingdom .... the balance of the fourth divided and then consolidated is still pending at his time .... the kingdom of the little horn yet to be revealed