Jesus Back Soon

HeroOfGod said:
please, check out the following end-times chart at www.signsofthetimes777-endtimeschart.webs.com
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Let me advise you and everyone else that the setting of dates for the return of the Lord Jesus is not recommended. I do not have to post the Bible verse for I am sure that all on this site have read what Jesus said when He was asked and His reply was that ONLY THE FATHER knew.

We can know the "season" and without a doubt we are in that time, but no one should offer a certain date for this event. One of the many negitives which come out of this is the scenario is the "SKY IS FALLING".
You can only claim that the SKY IS FALLING a few times, and when it does not fall, PEOPLE STOP LOOKING UP. Same with setting dates on the Second Return. It has been done time and time again and the result is that He has NOT COME YET. But every time the set date comes and passes, there are those who lose faith and turn from the Lord beacuse a false prophet has effected their belief.

Understand this, when any opinion given is in conflict with the Word of God, it is then FALSE and I believe that applies to setting dates on the Second Coming.

The question should not be the DAY of the Return of Jesus, but "ARE YOU READY FOR THE RETURN OF JESUS"?

Good day!
 
MinisterTony said:
Avoid emotional and fanatical people who claim Jesus is coming "soon" and the kingdom is at hand etc. They are fanatical people and violate what Bible teaches that we are not to start setting dates etc.

Cults set dates and claim "Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming".

Jesus didn't even know when He was set to return, so no human on Earth has any idea either.

Jesus is not near to returning at all! It's a long way away and in the meantime Christians should live each day carrying their Crosses and helping the needy and sharing the Gospel.

Jesus is not near....there are still a lot of things to happen. Every day around the world there are thousands of people being born again and saved. If Jesus had have returned yesterday, that means thousands of people would have been denied the chance to be saved and go to heaven.

Jesus cannot return as long as there is a single soul who is coming to Christ for salvation. How evil would it be for God to come a day before you were saved! Can you see where I am coming from?

Jesus will only return when the world has become so evil, like Sodom and Gomorrah was, that not a single person on Earth is coming to Christ anymore for salvation. And this is years and years away, probably decades and maybe centuries.

For hundreds and hundreds of years, fanatical misled people have been shouting, "the time is close, Jesus is returning in our lifetime, he comes soon, the kingdom is near", but then Jesus did not return and all it achieved was driving people away from Christ and losing faith when they see Jesus never returned.

Stop being deceptive and fanatical, instead focus each day on helping those in need and share the Gospel with as many as you can, and be thankful that Jesus is not returning soon, because every single day, thousands of new people are added to the kingdom of God. Amen.
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Yes, He IS coming! and this is the generation. no matter what people say or used to say. He's coming with the clouds very soon and every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him. please take the time to read the thread "I am coming" saith the Lord, in evangelism!

God bless
 
Jesus is not near to returning at all! It's a long way away and in the meantime Christians should live each day carrying their Crosses and helping the needy and sharing the Gospel.
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And how is this conclusion reached with such adamant exclamation? This statement is right on, and we should live every day as if today is the day He will return!

No one knows the time, but many speculate, and assume more knowledge than others as too His coming. Why bother speculation, and assumption, one way or the other? Even so, Lord Jesus, come, come quickly.
 
Hope so... Get tired of people degrading others. get tired of them o f being greedy. Seem majority are evil. Sorry guys, I am not perfect but want to follow the footsteps of Jesus...
 
I hear the return of Christ with in the body of His church spoken two ways. They say the times are not fulfilled for His return so it will not be for awhile even years away and they say the signs of the times are apparent that His return in near. Both agree that we need to be focused on living each day for the Lord. There can be an abrupt rebuke of others who say the Lord is near the door and soon to come. The rebuttal is normally always the same; which is { No one knows the day nor the hour of the Lords return not even the Son nor the angels in heaven only the Father}. Some times this rebuttal is with almost and aggressive verbal stance as in a form of absolute denial that it could be the time of the Lords return while stating no one can know. This is not a good approach to rebuttal people because it is stating an absolute no to the statement as though you absolutely know he will not return soon and it is contradicting the no one can know except the Father. As the times grow harder for people and they are in more distress and hardships the statements will increase and the questions will also to why you would answer them with such an answer as that if you can not give them the reason no one not even the Son knows His own return nor the angels in heaven only the Father. It is time to get prepared to answer some of the statements that we made for a very long time now and it is time to prepare to answer this to people who are hurting and wounded and perplexed. The statement is from scripture the very word of God and it is there for reason and purpose beyond just a verse to use as rebuttal it is there for understanding. And it will like wise bring up more points when we try and explain this to men that will send back to us even more questions to answer. It is not healthy nor is it wise in any way to state the movements of God before they are even done and place them in a precise time frame like saying God will move on this day and at in this year and do this thing. No that is not good to say and we should not say such things as that but we also should look deeper into the person or people saying such as to why they are saying it. It may be they are in hardships and distressed or they are becoming afraid of the days ahead so we need to consider them and help them with consolation and edification to help strengthen and support them. We can not allow persons to be at ease or off guard about the hour of the Lords return either we must be constantly looking for that, yes that is a very good idea. And we all should ask our selves this question........Why would not the Son know the hour of his return..? When He knew the hour of his death and the denial of Him by Peter even the number of times the cock would crow even the hour of the very denial...it is a very serious matter.
 
HeroOfGod said:
Yes, He IS coming! and this is the generation. no matter what people say or used to say. He's coming with the clouds very soon and every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him. please take the time to read the thread "I am coming" saith the Lord, in evangelism!

God bless
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Wrong!!! This is not the generation Jesus will be returning, just like all the other generations people were claiming Jesus was returning.

If Jesus was to return before people are accepting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then God would be more evil than Satan! How would you feel if Jesus had have returned a day before you were saved?

Jesus will not, and cannot, return as long as people are coming to Christ for salvation. And currently, thousands of new souls are being saved every day, and Father God will not send Jesus to return as long as there still exists a single person who is coming to Christ for salvation.

Jesus will not return until the world has become so evil and distant from God that not a single new soul is coming to Christ for salvation anymore. Like it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus is a very long way away from returning, probably 100+ years, because there are still millions of new people in the future who will come to Christ for salvation and God desires that nobody shall perish.
 
MinisterTony said:
Wrong!!! This is not the generation Jesus will be returning, just like all the other generations people were claiming Jesus was returning.

If Jesus was to return before people are accepting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then God would be more evil than Satan! How would you feel if Jesus had have returned a day before you were saved?

Jesus will not, and cannot, return as long as people are coming to Christ for salvation. And currently, thousands of new souls are being saved every day, and Father God will not send Jesus to return as long as there still exists a single person who is coming to Christ for salvation.

Jesus will not return until the world has become so evil and distant from God that not a single new soul is coming to Christ for salvation anymore. Like it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus is a very long way away from returning, probably 100+ years, because there are still millions of new people in the future who will come to Christ for salvation and God desires that nobody shall perish.
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Minister Tony,

Your quote was...............................
"If Jesus was to return before people are accepting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then God would be more evil than Satan".

The key there is the first word.."IF". Since the Scriptures tell in James 1:13
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man".

Since there is no evil in God and God did not creat evil, your thought of "IF'" is then actually irreavalant when used to say that He would be more eveil than Satan.

Then consider this. Did God bringing the Flood on the world make Him evil as well? He warned the world through Noah and the building of the Ark for 120 years and still the whole world outside of Noah's family rejected God and were destroyed. Doesn't that all come down to the FREEDOM OF CHOICE given to us by the Creator, Jesus Christ?

The Bible, Jesus and the Apostles, and preachers and teachers have told the world of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ now for 2000 years.
Freedom of Choice comes in here does it not.

You then said..............................................
"Jesus will not, and cannot, return as long as people are coming to Christ for salvation".

I can not agree with that either my friend. If that was the case, then there never would be a Second Coming would there. The Rapture MUST take place so that the Holy Spirit leaves with the believers as it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men and point them to Christ.

Consider Psalm 145:20 which assures us,
"The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
 
Major said:
Minister Tony,

Your quote was...............................
"If Jesus was to return before people are accepting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then God would be more evil than Satan".

The key there is the first word.."IF". Since the Scriptures tell in James 1:13
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man".

Since there is no evil in God and God did not creat evil, your thought of "IF'" is then actually irreavalant when used to say that He would be more eveil than Satan.

Then consider this. Did God bringing the Flood on the world make Him evil as well? He warned the world through Noah and the building of the Ark for 120 years and still the whole world outside of Noah's family rejected God and were destroyed. Doesn't that all come down to the FREEDOM OF CHOICE given to us by the Creator, Jesus Christ?

The Bible, Jesus and the Apostles, and preachers and teachers have told the world of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ now for 2000 years.
Freedom of Choice comes in here does it not.

You then said..............................................
"Jesus will not, and cannot, return as long as people are coming to Christ for salvation".

I can not agree with that either my friend. If that was the case, then there never would be a Second Coming would there. The Rapture MUST take place so that the Holy Spirit leaves with the believers as it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict the hearts of men and point them to Christ.

Consider Psalm 145:20 which assures us,
"The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
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1. Your post contains a lot of errors, and I will start with your claim that God did not create evil, because Scripture contradicts you.

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

2. Did anyone on earth want to support Noah or want to enter the ark? There wasn't a single soul on Earth who wanted to enter the ark, same will happen in end times before Jesus returns, nobody will be coming to Christ anymore for salvation, not a single soul. Same thing as in Sodom and Gomorrah.

3. There will be a second coming, because as I have mentioned many times, Jesus will return when the world has become so evil and distant from God, like in Noah's day and Sodom and Gomorrah, that not a single new soul is coming to Christ.

4. Every single day around the world, thousands of new Christians are born again and saved. How evil would it be if Jesus had have returned yesterday, and all the thousands of new Christians today, tomorrow, next week, next year, next decade would have been lost.

5. As long as a single soul is still coming to Christ for salvation, God will not return. So we are looking at decades, and probably hundreds of years before the world becomes as evil and distant from God that nobody new is coming to God anymore, as they were in Noah's day and in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
MinisterTony said:
1. Your post contains a lot of errors, and I will start with your claim that God did not create evil, because Scripture contradicts you.

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”


2. Did anyone on earth want to support Noah or want to enter the ark? There wasn't a single soul on Earth who wanted to enter the ark, same will happen in end times before Jesus returns, nobody will be coming to Christ anymore for salvation, not a single soul. Same thing as in Sodom and Gomorrah.

3. There will be a second coming, because as I have mentioned many times, Jesus will return when the world has become so evil and distant from God, like in Noah's day and Sodom and Gomorrah, that not a single new soul is coming to Christ

4. Every single day around the world, thousands of new Christians are born again and saved. How evil would it be if Jesus had have returned yesterday, and all the thousands of new Christians today, tomorrow, next week, next year, next decade would have been lost.

5. As long as a single soul is still coming to Christ for salvation, God will not return. So we are looking at decades, and probably hundreds of years before the world becomes as evil and distant from God that nobody new is coming to God anymore, as they were in Noah's day and in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Not so my friend. YOU personally may not accept those things but that in no way makes them in error.

Since you believe the Scriptures contradicte me, shall we consider them?

1.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
The Hebrew tells us that the word here for "EVIL" is translated as CALAMITY.
If you will take the time to study this word you will see that it refers to physical "calamity/trouble" and NOT moral evil. God is in no way pictured in Scripture as the author of sin.

Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is shâlôm, which has many meanings, mostly related to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the Hebrew word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to adversity or calamity. There are two forms of the word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here) most often refers to calamity or distress. Obviously, "calamity" is a better antonym of "peace" than "evil."

2.
You have failed to understand the purpose of the Rapture. The Rapture will remove the body of Christ because the last person predestinated to be saved will have in fact come to Christ. That completes the church and it is then removed. With that action the Holy Spirit leave the earth as well.

2 Thess. 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity foth already work, only HE (Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY", then shall the Wicked be revealed (A/C.).
Salvation will take place right up that point.

The offer of salvation is to all, who will come to Him in repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Tim 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

3.
YES, I agree that Jesus is coming again and actually it is not the question before us is it.
The question is from YOu who have said that ,
"Jesus will return when the world has become so evil and distant from God, like in Noah's day and Sodom and Gomorrah, that not a single new soul is coming to Christ."

As you now see from the above Scriptures, that is an erroneous assumption and not Biblical in any way.
If we want to be technical, we must acknowledge that THERE were some who were saved before the Ark and from Sodom. Noah's family (7 people) was saved . Lot's children were saved.
Throughout Biblical history God has always perserved a "REMNANT'.

To say that there will be a time when ,"that not a single new soul is coming to Christ" .is a very dangereous belief. Even during the Tribulation Period when salvation means death, millions will be saved.

4.
That is a straw man areument and it actually goes back to the Ark for an example does'nt it.
God warned the world through the witness of Noah and the Ark being built in front of them. Only Noah and his family were saved. When it began to rain, and the water got to be waist deep and every one wanted to come on the Ark, did God open the door????? Does that make Him evil and bad. NO!!!!!!!
It means He did what He said He would do. "Come into the Ark or die in the judgment".

Tony, you are missing the concept of the JUDGMENT of God. God is holy and what He say He MUST do.
The church has been doing the same thing as Noah. It has been preaching the Second Coming of Jesus for 2000 years. The message is GET SAVED TODAY. Now if Jesus does not come again, that would make God a liar and Scriptures tell us that God cannot lie. So the truth of this is not in what God is but in your lack of Biblical understanding of what He will do WHEN He chooses to do it.

5.
Not so. Jesus will come when the church is complete.
 
MinisterTony said:
Avoid emotional and fanatical people who claim Jesus is coming "soon" and the kingdom is at hand etc. They are fanatical people and violate what Bible teaches that we are not to start setting dates etc.

Cults set dates and claim "Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming".

Jesus didn't even know when He was set to return, so no human on Earth has any idea either.

Jesus is not near to returning at all! It's a long way away and in the meantime Christians should live each day carrying their Crosses and helping the needy and sharing the Gospel.

Jesus is not near....there are still a lot of things to happen. Every day around the world there are thousands of people being born again and saved. If Jesus had have returned yesterday, that means thousands of people would have been denied the chance to be saved and go to heaven.

Jesus cannot return as long as there is a single soul who is coming to Christ for salvation. How evil would it be for God to come a day before you were saved! Can you see where I am coming from?

Jesus will only return when the world has become so evil, like Sodom and Gomorrah was, that not a single person on Earth is coming to Christ anymore for salvation. And this is years and years away, probably decades and maybe centuries.

For hundreds and hundreds of years, fanatical misled people have been shouting, "the time is close, Jesus is returning in our lifetime, he comes soon, the kingdom is near", but then Jesus did not return and all it achieved was driving people away from Christ and losing faith when they see Jesus never returned.

Stop being deceptive and fanatical, instead focus each day on helping those in need and share the Gospel with as many as you can, and be thankful that Jesus is not returning soon, because every single day, thousands of new people are added to the kingdom of God. Amen.
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Be thankful that Jesus is not returning soon??? Come on, Wake up!

1.) The Bible teaches that "The Budding Of The Fig Tree" thrust the world into the end of days. The fig tree is identified by the State of Israel,
and it came into existence on May 14th 1948. The lunar tetrads as heavenly signs speak for themselves. As a consequence of this, all the dates set before the revival of Israel did not make sense indeed. No matter how many times wolf has been cried BUT why would you bury your head in the sand NOW just before Christ returns... it's not the proper attitude at all. I do know there are many Christians who just cannot separate themselves form the world and cannot even discern the signs of the times, they still have time to repent and turn to the Lord TODAY!

According to Jesus the generation which saw the budding of the fig tree or the rebirth of the State of Israel which took place in 1948, will witness his second coming!!! Time is running out! We must prepare our heart for his soon coming today, because the time has finally come. indeed! This is why it is so very important to tell people of his Soon return! Understand?

SO, YES THE TIME IS UPON US! LET'S PRAY!
2.) Many false prophets shall rise and deceive many.

So, take this into consideration:

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." (2nd Peter 3 verse: 2-3)

That's what scoffers are now doing. Avoid fanatical scoffers saying that the kingdom is far away because it is not the word of God. it is not true! they will pay for their skepticism and deception! why would you choose to be one of them?

SO, REJOICE FOR IT IS NEAR, EVEN AT THE DOORS!
3.) Things are not so bad??? Hm, mabye the evil does not seem bad enough for many. (Read the thread "I am coming" thus saith the Lord" in evangelism)

Up next is the Rapture and the Sudden Destruction. The judgments in the book of revelation are about to begin. The Sudden destruction (a nuclear warfare - WWIII will happen all of a sudden). You are certainly well-informed enough to know that our generation is the first that can and will experience a complete economic melt-down and a nuclear warfare (see BBC, CNN, plus listen to the experts). Experts say they are inevitable. These two and maybe the most devastating things will give the green light to the kingdom of the beast! This cataclysmic destruction will help the new world order/ global government to be established. Yes, the Kingdom of the Beast is now being formed behind the scenes - one-world government, one world currency, one world religion, mark of the beast etc.. they just won't warn us to make our ways to our shelthers (if there are any). The Antichrist is already here. So is the tribulation. We (the church) have not been raptured yet, because we are commanded to stay a while and warn people of the lateness of the hour. When things go ballistic, e.g the first nuke goes off we'll be taken out of the way, and woe to the left behind. By the way, this is not fear-mongering, it's just that NOW is the time to Repent. Today is the day for salvation. let us not preach there is peace, when IT IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE AND THAT'S WHAT THE ILLUMINATI WANT US TO BELIEVE UNTIL THAT VERY DAY...

Did you bother to read the links posted in this thread?
 
Major said:
Not so my friend. YOU personally may not accept those things but that in no way makes them in error.

Since you believe the Scriptures contradicte me, shall we consider them?

1.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
The Hebrew tells us that the word here for "EVIL" is translated as CALAMITY.
If you will take the time to study this word you will see that it refers to physical "calamity/trouble" and NOT moral evil. God is in no way pictured in Scripture as the author of sin.

Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is shâlôm, which has many meanings, mostly related to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the Hebrew word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to adversity or calamity. There are two forms of the word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here) most often refers to calamity or distress. Obviously, "calamity" is a better antonym of "peace" than "evil."

2.
You have failed to understand the purpose of the Rapture. The Rapture will remove the body of Christ because the last person predestinated to be saved will have in fact come to Christ. That completes the church and it is then removed. With that action the Holy Spirit leave the earth as well.

2 Thess. 2:7
"For the mystery of iniquity foth already work, only HE (Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY", then shall the Wicked be revealed (A/C.).
Salvation will take place right up that point.

The offer of salvation is to all, who will come to Him in repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Tim 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

3.
YES, I agree that Jesus is coming again and actually it is not the question before us is it.
The question is from YOu who have said that ,
"Jesus will return when the world has become so evil and distant from God, like in Noah's day and Sodom and Gomorrah, that not a single new soul is coming to Christ."

As you now see from the above Scriptures, that is an erroneous assumption and not Biblical in any way.
If we want to be technical, we must acknowledge that THERE were some who were saved before the Ark and from Sodom. Noah's family (7 people) was saved . Lot's children were saved.
Throughout Biblical history God has always perserved a "REMNANT'.

To say that there will be a time when ,"that not a single new soul is coming to Christ" .is a very dangereous belief. Even during the Tribulation Period when salvation means death, millions will be saved.

4.
That is a straw man areument and it actually goes back to the Ark for an example does'nt it.
God warned the world through the witness of Noah and the Ark being built in front of them. Only Noah and his family were saved. When it began to rain, and the water got to be waist deep and every one wanted to come on the Ark, did God open the door????? Does that make Him evil and bad. NO!!!!!!!
It means He did what He said He would do. "Come into the Ark or die in the judgment".

Tony, you are missing the concept of the JUDGMENT of God. God is holy and what He say He MUST do.
The church has been doing the same thing as Noah. It has been preaching the Second Coming of Jesus for 2000 years. The message is GET SAVED TODAY. Now if Jesus does not come again, that would make God a liar and Scriptures tell us that God cannot lie. So the truth of this is not in what God is but in your lack of Biblical understanding of what He will do WHEN He chooses to do it.

5.
Not so. Jesus will come when the church is complete.
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I am sorry brother, but I totally disagree!

And seeing you are not a Hebrew Scholar and not fluent in Hebrew, you are in no position to teach Hebrew to me, nor in a position to accuse the KJV Hebrew Scholars of being in error. In all due respect, I have always found it rather entertaining when a person begins telling me what the Hebrew says when they themselves are not fluent in Hebrew. Hebrew is more complicated than picking up a lexicon and looking at individual words. But for arguements sake, even if it's CALAMITY or TROUBLE, the Scripture says GOD CREATED IT! Would you say CALAMITY and TROUBLE is a bad thing? Yes or No?

And in regard of the rapture, you have totally misunderstood Scripture in this regard and never fully interpreted all Scripture. There is not the slightest hint that this final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Yet, this connotation has been applied by those who are desperately trying to find inspired support for an empty tradition. The unscriptural two-phase coming has been repeated so often and so persistently that millions believe it must be true. You are teaching something that is not scriptural!

The amazing thing is how people and yourself, have taken such obvious verses and twisted them out of context to support a doctrine which does not even appear in the Bible. The same thing has been done with the illustration of two woman grinding together. Jesus did say, "The one shall be taken and the other left," but what does the context tell us about the meaning of those words? Is there any indication whatsoever that Jesus was teaching a secret rapture of the saints?

The words in question are found in Luke 17:24-27, but let's read the verses before and after in order to get the full picture. Beginning in verse 26 Jesus likened His coming to the days of Noah: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all."

The similarity is beyond question. Before the flood some were taken and some were left. The ones taken were taken into the ark and saved. The ones who were left were all destroyed by the raging water.

Christ continued His discourse with another illustration. "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." Verses 28-30.

Again, the parallel is obvious. Some were taken out of the city to safety and some were left. What happened to those who were left? They were all destroyed by the fire.

Now we come to verses 34-36: "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Please keep the continuity of Christ's previous illustration in mind as you consider these words. In every case there had been a separation of the good from the bad, and then the wicked were slain. If the context teaches us anything at all, we must conclude that the one who is left will be left dead, just as it was in Noah and Lot's days. And when we read the next verse, there can be no doubt that this is exactly what Jesus was saying. "And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Verse 37.

After Jesus said one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead. Their bodies would be food for the eagles to devour. This is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject.

You have a lot to learn about this topic and you have totally misinterpreted and totally misunderstood the JUDGEMENT, because the Scripture says the redeemed WILL NOT ENTER INTO JUDGEMENT, yet you base your whole doctrine that the redeemed are not legally justified now, and need to enter judgement to be investigated, but that is false and not biblical! The redeemed will PASS through judgement and not ENTER into judgement. You have never understood the difference, so I will explain it to you.

NKJV John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

The NASB says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

The New Living Translation puts it this way: “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life."

The Amplified Bible, "I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life."

And in the Jewish court system, unlike the English court system we use today, there was only ever 3 people in the court. The accused, accuser and Judge who was also the representative or advocate of the accused.

So if we compare this with the heavenly court, we would have the accused [You], the accuser [Satan] and the solicitor/representative/advocate and Judge of the accused [Jesus].

And the Good News is that those who are "in Christ" will not be condemned, and will not come into judgement, but have already passed!

So I am sorry to tell you, as it has been clearly shown, your teachings are in error! But thank you for sharing your personal beliefs. Even though we do not agree, it's good to bounce differing beliefs around.
 
HeroOfGod said:
Be thankful that Jesus is not returning soon??? Come on, Wake up!

..
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YES, I am very thankful Jesus has not returned!! VERY HAPPY, VERY GRATEFUL and I celebrate each day we are given so that new Christians are born again and people come to Christ. I do not wish or desire that anyone should perish, but I wish and desire that all shall inherit the kingdom of God, and every single day around the world, new people are coming to Christ for salvation, hallelujah!!!!

I have never been selfish to want Jesus to return, even though that would be wonderful. Because I realise that if Jesus came today, that millions of beautiful and wonderful people who come to Christ today and tomorrow, and next week etc, would have been lost and denied the ability to come to Christ for salvation and eternal life.

As long as people are coming to Christ for salvation, I sing and dance and celebrate. Jesus will not return as long as people are still coming to Christ, because Jesus loves everyone and would never deny them the possibility to hear about Jesus and come to Jesus by faith.
Amen.

By the way, there is no Rapture taught in the entire Bible. His second coming will be visible to both the righteous and the wicked (1 Corinthians 1:7; Hebrews 9:28; Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27). It will be audible (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Matthew 24:31; Psalms 50:3). It will be personal (Acts 1:11); bodily (John 14:1-3). It will be glorious (Matthew 24:30; 25:31; Luke 21:27; Mark 13:26). It will occur before the thousand-year millennium, and it is imminent (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Revelation 29:6; Matthew 24:36-39, 44).

The Bible plainly says that Christ's return will be anything but quiet or secret: "Our God shall come and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him" (Psalms 50:3).

I have done an in-depth research into this topic, and what I learned and found was that the foundation of the "rapture" or "left behind" theory was laid over 400 years ago upon the specific orders of the Catholic Church, but has no biblical foundation whatsoever! The "Secret Rapture or left behind" teaching is a down right and dangerous doctrinal distortion, because it could delude the majority of professed Christians into being lost. The "left behind" theory is a major deception that many Christians shockingly believe to be true, even though the teaching cannot be found in the entire Bible.

No wonder Jesus warned: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
 
MinisterTony said:
I am sorry brother, but I totally disagree!

And seeing you are not a Hebrew Scholar and not fluent in Hebrew, you are in no position to teach Hebrew to me, nor in a position to accuse the KJV Hebrew Scholars of being in error. In all due respect, I have always found it rather entertaining when a person begins telling me what the Hebrew says when they themselves are not fluent in Hebrew. Hebrew is more complicated than picking up a lexicon and looking at individual words. But for arguements sake, even if it's CALAMITY or TROUBLE, the Scripture says GOD CREATED IT! Would you say CALAMITY and TROUBLE is a bad thing? Yes or No?

And in regard of the rapture, you have totally misunderstood Scripture in this regard and never fully interpreted all Scripture. There is not the slightest hint that this final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Yet, this connotation has been applied by those who are desperately trying to find inspired support for an empty tradition. The unscriptural two-phase coming has been repeated so often and so persistently that millions believe it must be true. You are teaching something that is not scriptural!

The amazing thing is how people and yourself, have taken such obvious verses and twisted them out of context to support a doctrine which does not even appear in the Bible. The same thing has been done with the illustration of two woman grinding together. Jesus did say, "The one shall be taken and the other left," but what does the context tell us about the meaning of those words? Is there any indication whatsoever that Jesus was teaching a secret rapture of the saints?

The words in question are found in Luke 17:24-27, but let's read the verses before and after in order to get the full picture. Beginning in verse 26 Jesus likened His coming to the days of Noah: "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all."

The similarity is beyond question. Before the flood some were taken and some were left. The ones taken were taken into the ark and saved. The ones who were left were all destroyed by the raging water.

Christ continued His discourse with another illustration. "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." Verses 28-30.

Again, the parallel is obvious. Some were taken out of the city to safety and some were left. What happened to those who were left? They were all destroyed by the fire.

Now we come to verses 34-36: "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Please keep the continuity of Christ's previous illustration in mind as you consider these words. In every case there had been a separation of the good from the bad, and then the wicked were slain. If the context teaches us anything at all, we must conclude that the one who is left will be left dead, just as it was in Noah and Lot's days. And when we read the next verse, there can be no doubt that this is exactly what Jesus was saying. "And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Verse 37.

After Jesus said one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead. Their bodies would be food for the eagles to devour. This is in perfect harmony with what the rest of the Bible says on the subject.

You have a lot to learn about this topic and you have totally misinterpreted and totally misunderstood the JUDGEMENT, because the Scripture says the redeemed WILL NOT ENTER INTO JUDGEMENT, yet you base your whole doctrine that the redeemed are not legally justified now, and need to enter judgement to be investigated, but that is false and not biblical! The redeemed will PASS through judgement and not ENTER into judgement. You have never understood the difference, so I will explain it to you.

NKJV John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

The NASB says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

The New Living Translation puts it this way: “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life."

The Amplified Bible, "I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the person whose ears are open to My words [who listens to My message] and believes and trusts in and clings to and relies on Him Who sent Me has (possesses now) eternal life. And he does not come into judgment [does not incur sentence of judgment, will not come under condemnation], but he has already passed over out of death into life."

And in the Jewish court system, unlike the English court system we use today, there was only ever 3 people in the court. The accused, accuser and Judge who was also the representative or advocate of the accused.

So if we compare this with the heavenly court, we would have the accused [You], the accuser [Satan] and the solicitor/representative/advocate and Judge of the accused [Jesus].

And the Good News is that those who are "in Christ" will not be condemned, and will not come into judgement, but have already passed!

So I am sorry to tell you, as it has been clearly shown, your teachings are in error! But thank you for sharing your personal beliefs. Even though we do not agree, it's good to bounce differing beliefs around.
Click to expand...

I agree with ou and also disagree with you.

Agreement......"I am sorry brother, but I totally disagree!"

You probably should have ended it right there because once again you delve into the personnal and make assumptions and statements which as I have said to you before are true ONLY TO YOU.

You state that because somehow because I posted a Hebrew word I am not fluent in Hebrew BUT YOU IMPLY THAT YOU ARE. So far I have not seen that from you in any way what so ever.

NO, I am not fluent in Hebrew but I can and have been able to read a Lexicon and Concordance and Dictionary now for a very long time and I fail to understand how demeaning my ability makes yours look more believable.

Disagreement....."The amazing thing is how people and yourself, have taken such obvious verses and twisted them out of context to support a doctrine which does not even appear in the Bible".

I just am not going to take the time to respond to your remarks because they are so very ignorant of the Scriptures that I can not at this point even understand where you are coming from as a Christian. I will say that due to this claim you keep insisting upon.......................................................................................

"But for arguements sake, even if it's CALAMITY or TROUBLE, the Scripture says GOD CREATED IT! Would you say CALAMITY and TROUBLE is a bad thing? Yes or No?"

IT is not open for arguments sake, that is exactly what it means.
For you to insist that God is the creator of evil simply (IMHO) reduces your implied status of a Bible believer/teacher of any kind.(name, Minister Tony).

Tony.......Are you aware that one of the most common reasons skeptics reject the existence of God is due to the presence of evil in this universe. They reason that a perfect God would not create a universe in which evil exists. Skeptics claim that since God created everything that God must have also created evil.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EVERY ATHIEST WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET.

(Your call name is "Minister Tony" and I can not help but to ask if you have any credentials that confirm that title or is it just one that sounded good to you?)

But just think about it for a moment, evil is not really a created thing. You can't see, touch, feel, smell or hear evil. It is not one of the fundamental forces of physics, nor does it consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the universe. Still, skeptics like to claim that God created evil and cite the Bible to "prove" their point. The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of doing so.
(James 1:17-18)

The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems to suggest that God speaks both good and evil. However, if one reads the verse in context, the preceding verses indicate that God does not do or approve of evil. The verse following indicates that people should not complain in view of their sins. What the verse really is saying that God decrees times of good things and times of judgment. Lamentations was written by Jeremiah during a time of judgment, when Judah had gone off into exile. Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to tell Judah to reform or be judged. The people did not believe Jeremiah, and, therefore, fell under God's judgment.
In Lamentations 3:38, the word translated "good" is ṭôb (Strong's H2896). The word usually refers to good things as
opposed to bad things. Again, râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's judgment based upon people's sin.


Therefore when God said Let there be light. He was dispelling the darkness. Yes darkness exists but only where light is not.
So did God create evil. Well God didn't say let there be darkness, rather he dispells it. God gave his created beings the ability to choose him or not and to cater for those who choose not God, he had to provide an alternative to him. So if God is light, then if you reject light you have darkness which is really just the lack of light. When you reject God then God removes his righteous presence from you and that of course this leaves evil. How can there be any good that doesn't come from God and why be surprised at the outcome of rebelling against the only true light and the only true source of all good. It's really quite logical.

Since your original premise is wrong..........the thoughts and opinons you are expressing are wrong as well.

I now want you to realize something very important, something that will change your view about darkness and evil, something that will show that God is truly righteous and that he is just and that He did not creat evil.
  • Evil is not actually a created thing. God did not create evil. Evil is simply the lack of good.
    • Darkness is not a created thing. Darkness is the lack of light. You cannot shine darkness into light and overcome it. E.g.darkness does not shine into your lit up house at night when you open the blinds.
      • Foolishness is not a created thing, rather it is the lack of wisdom.
        • Lies are simply the lack of truth.
          • Chaos is the lack of order. Chaos only exists where order is not. You do not create chaos, rather it is the result of no order.
          • There is no such thing as COLD. Cold is the name we have given to the opposite of heat. Cold is the result of no heat.

        • Your failure to understand these basic thoughts allow you to agree with the skeptics that God in fact created evil. SHAME ON YOU.

          You are a self proclaimed Minister" and are in fact putting out some very none Christian opinions which are dangereous.

          In fact, I am really surprised that the moderators have given you this much lattitude since they were reluctant to even allow the discussion on wheter Hell is real or not. "STRANGE".

          James 1:17
          "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."
          All good things originate in him, but man perverts good. Man is evil if he is not in unity with God who is good. God allowed for evil because he gave us free will. If we couldn't rebel from God, then we wouldn't have choice, which means that we wouldn't have free will and that would mean that we would just be a race of robots, obeying his every command like a computer program. But we are much more than robots and programs. We are not simply machines. We were created in God's image and clothed in a vessel called a body. Free will is necessary to become a son or daughter of God.


 
Major said:
I agree with ou and also disagree with you.

Agreement......"I am sorry brother, but I totally disagree!"

You probably should have ended it right there because once again you delve into the personnal and make assumptions and statements which as I have said to you before are true ONLY TO YOU.

You state that because somehow because I posted a Hebrew word I am not fluent in Hebrew BUT YOU IMPLY THAT YOU ARE. ..
Click to expand...

I am sorry if it came across that way. Let me ask you then to gain clarity. Are you fluent and educated in Hebrew?

Secondly, typing in caps is considered yelling. Let's just talk in calm peace please. Thank you, God bless.
 
MinisterTony said:
Wrong!!! This is not the generation Jesus will be returning, just like all the other generations people were claiming Jesus was returning.

If Jesus was to return before people are accepting Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, then God would be more evil than Satan! How would you feel if Jesus had have returned a day before you were saved?

Jesus will not, and cannot, return as long as people are coming to Christ for salvation. And currently, thousands of new souls are being saved every day, and Father God will not send Jesus to return as long as there still exists a single person who is coming to Christ for salvation.

Jesus will not return until the world has become so evil and distant from God that not a single new soul is coming to Christ for salvation anymore. Like it was in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus is a very long way away from returning, probably 100+ years, because there are still millions of new people in the future who will come to Christ for salvation and God desires that nobody shall perish.
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We will not know when Jesus will be returning for us. Not you, not Major, not anyone. No one will know. And I know you jst want to have a scripture with what I say, so here ya go. :) Matthew 24:36.
We will not know what time. It may be over 100 years, or it may be this generation.

But it is not for us to know. Only the heavenly Father will.

 
xspinningisfun said:
We will not know when Jesus will be returning for us. Not you, not Major, not anyone. No one will know. And I know you jst want to have a scripture with what I say, so here ya go. :) Matthew 24:36.
We will not know what time. It may be over 100 years, or it may be this generation.

But it is not for us to know. Only the heavenly Father will.
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Amen. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn in this generation and the world collapse very rapidly into moral decline and perhaps people will stop coming to Christ for salvation. I do understand and realise that it may snowball very quickly and rapidly.

But as you said, we do not know, could be this generation or 100 years, only Father knows.

God bless, thank you.
 
xspinningisfun said:
We will not know when Jesus will be returning for us. Not you, not Major, not anyone. No one will know. And I know you jst want to have a scripture with what I say, so here ya go. :) Matthew 24:36.
We will not know what time. It may be over 100 years, or it may be this generation.

But it is not for us to know. Only the heavenly Father will.
Click to expand...

Hey my darlin.........I agree with you 100%. IDO NOT KNOW and actually I do not want to know.
I am the one who argues against setting dates.
 
MinisterTony said:
I am sorry if it came across that way. Let me ask you then to gain clarity. Are you fluent and educated in Hebrew?

Secondly, typing in caps is considered yelling. Let's just talk in calm peace please. Thank you, God bless.
Click to expand...

Absolutly.

As I have said, no I am not fluent in Hebrew or Greek. I have studded them both but to be "fluent", no.
I do have an extensive library of Hebrew and Greek material which have allowed me to grasp the meanings however.
 
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