Jonah Ch. 4 - A reminder to those of us living in "Gentile" nations....

Silk said:
In my estimation, America has until Sept, 2015. It would be our one chance to show the world and reflect God's glory. I don't expect a miracle...well 2 miracles. That Christians could gather together for it and that all repent (including Christians).
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I think it applies to far more that just the US, also SA, UK, Asia, etc.
We all walked down the path to the river of defilement, sadly.
And everyone's time is getting less and less. At the current time it seems in each country there are only remnants of the formed glory remaining in the race, staying true to God's word and commandments, living with His love and compassion.
And yet, time goes tick, tock, walking away from us.
 
Good topic and thread JohnC.
We need to challenge ourselves to look at this more seriously. To easy for us to sit back in our comfy recliners, but the walls of the house are being eaten out.
 
Politicians tend to say whatever they think the majority want to hear. I wasn't speaking to just the USA gathering but wherever Christians in the world are still free to gather on one day - dramatically (like Jonah & Nineveh) and with a simple agenda. No collection plates...no arguments....a simple plea for all to repent, pray, and return to God. The message is simple: we are in end times and people are headed to eternal damnation. SOON. If enough gather, everyone will have to listen. They may still turn but we have in righteousness, done all we can. With love. Those are the miracles: that it can be organized, according to Him, in a correct way where the idea takes fire, and that the world will listen. We can be the strong voice for one moment in the end times. Or we can be silent. Stand as one, on the basic planks. But I know I'm just dreaming.....
 
Wow, imagine if all the Christians worldwide would gather together in each major city on one day in unity for this very purpose, and it was promoted by each major city as well. The world couldn't help but take notice! It would be a day to be remembered in history.
 
The last verses of Jonah, Chapter 3:
Jon 3:7
And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9
Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
Chapter 4 starts out with Jonah being angry - that Nineveh survived? and Jonah wishing to die?

Jon 4:1
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jon 4:2
And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Jon 4:3
Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
Jon 4:4
Then said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?
Jon 4:5
So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
Jon 4:6
And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
Jon 4:7
But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
Jon 4:8
And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
Jon 4:9
And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
Jon 4:10
Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
Jon 4:11
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
 
Maybe not so much new as looking with different perspectives. One of my favorite verses (2:8) comes from Jonah:
Jon 2:7
When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
Jon 2:8
They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
 
I am too....

Silk said:
Jon 3:8 .... let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
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I think Here's actually the key - the words of The King....

See - before this, the people were REACTING emotionally - but their emotion had no lasting consequence... There was no SUBSTANTIAL change... They were mourning and fasting - but there were no actual seeds of change....

Notice that the king issues an EDICT.. And on that edict is a LIST of specific things which shall be curbed henceforth under penalty of such and so forth...... "Evil way" and "Violence in their hands" The King made a specific list of "That which shall not be tolerated here anymore"..... THIS is the actual substance of their "repentance"... The "Turning" from their evil way... and it's enforced by the power of the King....

And this struck me when I read what you posted.... Contrast this against the USA right after September 11th 2001..... EVERYBODY was in mourning... EVERYBODY went to church... Everybody was casting about... LOOKING for Guidance from Wise, God fearing men and women crying out: "What then shall we DO?" ... Those people were LOOKING FOR THE LIST... What do we need to curb to get God's protective hedge back up again?

And what did they get told by the CHURCH? by the "Christian Conservatives" - Oh... It's not your fault - it's those evil radicals from Over Yonder Land.... Oh... You don't need to repent because God loves you.... No - we don't need Repentance - WE NEED WAR....

And then - out of Nowhere - it's the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS of all people reading Isaiah 9:10 - talking about the bricks falling down.... and NOBODY on our side bothered to read the chapter and GASP in horror... God is MAKING SURE it's plastered wall to wall on the national news for everyone to see - these Liberals who don't believe a word of the bible unknowingly standing as Prophet DECLARING GOD'S JUDGEMENT UPON THE NATION FOR OUR EVIL DEEDS because our OWN PASTORS WON'T do it....

and yet WE the church were completely blind to it.... By and large, we still are...

Looking forward.. We NEED to have "The List" and we need to keep it in the Pastor's hands so that when God sends another Brick through the gap in our Hedge - we get it RIGHT this time....
As a nation, we MUST:
Teach and Act that there is absolute right and wrong in the universe. Moral relativism is completely ERROR and must not be tolerated any longer....
Curb Divorce
Curb Abortion
Curb Sexual Immorality in all flavors
Curb our culture of self-absorbed Narcissism and scandalization.
Turn back to God.

Thanks
 
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I take it you read the Harbinger too? (grin). People's instinct after 9/11 was correct but they were mislead. In this I agree with you. And all in all, it IS a pride thing. Our's was hurt when 9/11 happened. But people don't want to face a humbling because it's sharp and painful. We are no longer humble or meek. I think God was warning Jonah and all people that no one is greater before God than others...Gentile or Jew.....believer or unbeliever.
Silk said:
When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
Jon 2:8
They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
Click to expand...

I think that is what those verses mean. We are all our brothers/sisters keeper.
And it made me realize something about myself - I have to struggle against forgetting that. I got the pride thing down but sometimes I want to say "let them go that way - serves them right."

I dunno if that all makes sense. Stream of consciousness.
 
Yep - it does.....

What I have come to see is that Chapter 4 is one of those VERY FEW glimpses into the Mind of God that we get in the scripture...

It's a keen illustration that God's ways are NOT our ways... The Wisdom of God is Foolishness to Man.... Even to Christians - if we are don't get things CAREFULLY explained to us - we have a tendency to completely miss out on what God is REALLY doing for us and what OUR part must be....

It really makes you think more about what Jesus really meant when he said "How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Matt 23:37)

But - the comforting thing is that while the Scripture does not record what happened after this - the historical record does.... Jonah got the message. He STAYED in Nineveh and DID diligently work to root out it's evil.... As a result - Nineveh provided MASSIVE relief and benefit to Israel by bearing the brunt of the Military conquests that were going on all over the region for about another 120 years.... Israel never really quite got that a big part of God's protective hedge was being provided through Nineveh.... They benefited none-the-less...

Likewise.. We need to Lift up our eyes.... We are in the same situation on MANY fronts... We don't recognize the wisdom of God because it masquerades as Foolishness to Man..... AND because we think it's "Foolishness" and it doesn't fit into our conception of how God works or the doctrines we hold dear - we don't recognize the time at hand, where God is working, and what we must do... And as such - we as Christians don't DO those specific things which need to be done (which seemingly make no sense to us given our existing conception of God's ways) to Receive the blessings that God has planned for us.... (Think of the parable of the unjust steward in Luke 16)

Now... I am not going to say that it's always the same... There are times we are called to wipe the dust off of our feet on our way out the door as a testimony against them.... We should not be working to hold up that which God is pulling down - and there is plenty of this going on in our nation as well.... For example - I strongly believe that we ought to be working to help dislodge the Things of God from the hands of Government....

Thanks
 
JohnC said:
For example - I strongly believe that we ought to be working to help dislodge the Things of God from the hands of Government....
Click to expand...

I'm not clear here what you mean by the above. The government has long since stopped working for the people. We are taxed on the federal, state, and local levels added into this is sales tax, inheritance taxes, and school taxes (whether you have children or not or whether they attend public schools). , and gas and vice taxes. What do we get for all this money (aside from $700 million tax dollars spent on mosques)? Our infrastructure is falling down all over. We pay extra for water and garbage disposal and unfixed potholes every spring. Politicians get fat and rich making careers in titles that were never meant to be full time, never mind careers and they all have way better medical plans than anyone else does, bar none. It costs more to live poor than it does to be rich, who get the freebies and tax breaks. The pharisitical laws stopped at 613......we have how many millions of laws? Ok - end of rant.
 
Oh - just one more pet peeve: the commercial for wounded veterans asking $19.99 per month. Why aren't our taxes paying for these?
 
JohnC said:
I am too....



I think Here's actually the key - the words of The King....

See - before this, the people were REACTING emotionally - but their emotion had no lasting consequence... There was no SUBSTANTIAL change... They were mourning and fasting - but there were no actual seeds of change....

Notice that the king issues an EDICT.. And on that edict is a LIST of specific things which shall be curbed henceforth under penalty of such and so forth...... "Evil way" and "Violence in their hands" The King made a specific list of "That which shall not be tolerated here anymore"..... THIS is the actual substance of their "repentance"... The "Turning" from their evil way... and it's enforced by the power of the King....

And this struck me when I read what you posted.... Contrast this against the USA right after September 11th 2001..... EVERYBODY was in mourning... EVERYBODY went to church... Everybody was casting about... LOOKING for Guidance from Wise, God fearing men and women crying out: "What then shall we DO?" ... Those people were LOOKING FOR THE LIST... What do we need to curb to get God's protective hedge back up again?

And what did they get told by the CHURCH? by the "Christian Conservatives" - Oh... It's not your fault - it's those evil radicals from Over Yonder Land.... Oh... You don't need to repent because God loves you.... No - we don't need Repentance - WE NEED WAR....

And then - out of Nowhere - it's the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS of all people reading Isaiah 9:10 - talking about the bricks falling down.... and NOBODY on our side bothered to read the chapter and GASP in horror... God is MAKING SURE it's plastered wall to wall on the national news for everyone to see - these Liberals who don't believe a word of the bible unknowingly standing as Prophet DECLARING GOD'S JUDGEMENT UPON THE NATION FOR OUR EVIL DEEDS because our OWN PASTORS WON'T do it....

and yet WE the church were completely blind to it.... By and large, we still are...

Looking forward.. We NEED to have "The List" and we need to keep it in the Pastor's hands so that when God sends another Brick through the gap in our Hedge - we get it RIGHT this time....
As a nation, we MUST:
Teach and Act that there is absolute right and wrong in the universe. Moral relativism is completely ERROR and must not be tolerated any longer....
Curb Divorce
Curb Abortion
Curb Sexual Immorality in all flavors
Curb our culture of self-absorbed Narcissism and scandalization.
Turn back to God.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Hear, hear - for all nations.
 
Silk said:
I'm not clear here what you mean by the above. The government has long since stopped working for the people. We are taxed on the federal, state, and local levels added into this is sales tax, inheritance taxes, and school taxes (whether you have children or not or whether they attend public schools). , and gas and vice taxes. What do we get for all this money (aside from $700 million tax dollars spent on mosques)? Our infrastructure is falling down all over. We pay extra for water and garbage disposal and unfixed potholes every spring. Politicians get fat and rich making careers in titles that were never meant to be full time, never mind careers and they all have way better medical plans than anyone else does, bar none. It costs more to live poor than it does to be rich, who get the freebies and tax breaks. The pharisitical laws stopped at 613......we have how many millions of laws? Ok - end of rant.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you do not live in South Africa. Hahaha
 
Silk said:
I'm not clear here what you mean by the above. The government has long since stopped working for the people. We are taxed on the federal, state, and local levels added into this is sales tax, inheritance taxes, and school taxes (whether you have children or not or whether they attend public schools). , and gas and vice taxes. What do we get for all this money (aside from $700 million tax dollars spent on mosques)? Our infrastructure is falling down all over. We pay extra for water and garbage disposal and unfixed potholes every spring. Politicians get fat and rich making careers in titles that were never meant to be full time, never mind careers and they all have way better medical plans than anyone else does, bar none. It costs more to live poor than it does to be rich, who get the freebies and tax breaks. The pharisitical laws stopped at 613......we have how many millions of laws? Ok - end of rant.
Click to expand...

Sure... there's that... But remember that until the "Time of the gentiles is fulfilled" - we will have to live with this.... I get where you are coming from... and certainly - the historical record bears witness that Israel did not have an easy time under the Gentile nations which ruled them..... It was not all ribbons, bows, and christmas cards... BUT - The USA is still one of the BEST places in the entire world to be a Born Again Believer....

BUT - since it is STILL the time of the gentiles - that means this is the lot we have been dealt.... Jonah 4 is clear guidance in my mind at least that we are supposed to be "in the game" - not "On the sidelines" as a disinterested observer as so many Christians have been deceived into believing.... and that we should not discount political activity as a valid way to bring our nation to repentance or to push back against the encroachment of the Government into the administration of The Church....

What I was getting at with the "Dislodge the things of God from the hands of Government" is the bigger part of the message of "Take up your cross..".... I wrote more about it here:
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/but-take-up-your-cross.42677/

Thanks
 
Sometimes taking up the cross is just what we are doing. Studying scripture in-depth. I don't remember ever not believing in God (and memories go back to age 2). I studied demonology, paranormal and many occult and spiritual things. I called myself Christian but I wasn't a very good one, looking back. I was very tolerant and not too literal. In the last 4 years, I have learned more and my understanding has unbelievably multiplied. I wish I had known then what I know now..... I find I am very literal and have become intolerant against sin. Equally - I have found, now, that people are not inclined to listen and probably think I have bats in my belfry. I think our only hope to reach others these days is as a big gathering. Four years where I have needed every minute to learn what I needed to play catch up on for my old understanding. Four years ago, I thought maybe the Lord wanted me to write a book but I wouldn't have written the right book until now when I see it as too late. So I post here.
 
JohnC said:
and that we should not discount political activity as a valid way to bring our nation to repentance or to push back against the encroachment of the Government into the administration of The Church....
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I've pondered on this a bit, and this statement makes a good point.
There is that saying that sometimes applies to so many things, fight fire with fire, maybe more prevalent, you do not take a knife to a gun fight.
We tend to look at politics and should from the side line, and then look, politics just runs off without really paying attention to your shouts. Politics should be fought with politics, or better placed, bad politics should be fought with good politics, or even better, worldly politics should be fought with Godly inspired politics.
Shouting in from the outside does not seem to make a difference, yet everyone keeps doing it. Yet, those bad, worldly politics is what is driving everyone and everything to destruction.
 
With 41,000+ church denominations, I'm not sure political action committees would or should work to get a point/message across and lone individuals emailing or phoning targets them as fringe. Politicians only respond to groups. I think we are past the point of no return, aren't we? Barring miracles.
 
Nope.... It was "Impossible" in Jonah's day.... There was no way that the repentance of Nineveh would ever come.... but it did...... and it came because that *ONE* guy stepped up to the plate. One guy who DIDN'T Get it at the time.... See - the OTHER thing we have no knowledge of is how God prepared Nineveh beforehand....

What is missing is for us to repent of our defeatist attitude and our lack of courage to stand up and speak God's truth... To repent of our Hyper-spiritualization that says that lawful behavior, Moral ethics, and good works are completely worthless... To repent of our closed mindedness which sees NO benefit what-so-ever from "Civil" repentance.... To repent of our desire to see our own "Evil" nation to be brought to it's knees...

This post has got me thinking a whole lot about Sept 11, 2001 came - and the complete lack of response that came out of the church.... We literally had "Call the nation to repentance" handed to us on a platter - and we refused.

WE need to recognize our error (aka Sin)..... God sent us a HUGE opportunity to be a part of turning our nation... What did we do?

So... Will God give us another chance within our generation? How do we prepare the NEXT generation to do what needs to be done - so they understand what to do when God throws another brick through our hedge....

Thanks
 
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