Logical Fallacies - Please Read and Heed

Musicmaster

Musicmaster

This thread should be locked at the top for everyone to read and learn. The following website has a good array of fallacies listing, with definitions and examples.

All who have a habit of attacking other people rather than the topic at hand should become better at their postings by learning from this listing how to become more effective at posting better content, especially content that doesn't get other people's threads deleted. Sabotage seems to be the inevitable outcome of bad posts.

LOGICAL FALLACIES

MM
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MODERATOR'S STATEMENT:
The link in this post goes to a website which sells goods or services or solicits donations or goes to a self promotion site. Members are advised to be wary of ANY such donation requests or sales and to research the group or individual making the request or sales and to PRAY before sending ANY donation or before purchasing any goods or services.
 
Musicmaster said:
This thread should be locked at the top for everyone to read and learn. The following website has a good array of fallacies listing, with definitions and examples.

All who have a habit of attacking other people rather than the topic at hand should become better at their postings by learning from this listing how to become more effective at posting better content, especially content that doesn't get other people's threads deleted. Sabotage seems to be the inevitable outcome of bad posts.

LOGICAL FALLACIES

MM
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Thank you.
 
One of the most annoying LF at work is the burden of proof.
They say that if you have not filled in the correct documents then you could be guilty of some kind of crime.

It’s means, in a nutshell, if it’s not filled in it ain’t happened.
 
Via dolarossa said:
One of the most annoying LF at work is the burden of proof.
They say that if you have not filled in the correct documents then you could be guilty of some kind of crime.

It’s means, in a nutshell, if it’s not filled in it ain’t happened.
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Via, one of the things that many intellectual racketeers out there do is to try and turn the table around in an attempt to force the burden of proof upon their opponent. That's an old trick that many have tried to use on me.

Now, one of the more sophisticated tactics to keep that one-sided dumping of proof onto you when it should actually be shared, this is what I have done when dealing with atheists:

* They say that I claim God exists, which I do, and so try to lay the full weight for the burden of proof upon me.
* I respond with an example of cosmology, which is to point out the obvious in that there are still many, many things and phenomenon out there in the universe that we still have not yet observed, and therefore the non-existence of God equally a dilemma on their part.
* I then point out the obvious conclusion to that discussion, showing that with both of us having an impossible task on our hands to prove either the existence and the non-existence of God, neither of us is able to meet that burden of proof, and therefore it's a draw.

I use that as a way of getting past that silly part of the discussion so that we can then move on to more substantial and productive talk, such as how life, intelligence, reason, ethics, belief, love, the vast complexities of such a wide range of variance in functioning cells, species, et al, came about by mere random chance. There are staunch scholars in atheism out there who have written articles directing their novice followers to avoid conversations about origins, because of how divisive it can be against them...given the lack of any real evidence for evolutionary origins, but those doubts are only admitted among the more honest inquisitors in their ranks, which are very few.

So, Via, a more healthy viewpoint about the burden of proof is to accept that burden if you are the one making the initial claim, of which you should never make if you can't defend your position on it. It's in THAT context that most people get themselves into jams. My way of wiggling into a conversation with them is to ask questions, and let THEM make the initials claims that they most generally cannot defend with a reasonable measure of acceptable proofs.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
This thread should be locked at the top for everyone to read and learn. The following website has a good array of fallacies listing, with definitions and examples.

All who have a habit of attacking other people rather than the topic at hand should become better at their postings by learning from this listing how to become more effective at posting better content, especially content that doesn't get other people's threads deleted. Sabotage seems to be the inevitable outcome of bad posts.

LOGICAL FALLACIES

MM
______________________________________________________________________

MODERATOR'S STATEMENT:
The link in this post goes to a website which sells goods or services or solicits donations or goes to a self promotion site. Members are advised to be wary of ANY such donation requests or sales and to research the group or individual making the request or sales and to PRAY before sending ANY donation or before purchasing any goods or services.
Click to expand...

Oh, and just so everyone knows, I have nothing to do with that site other than to have found the information useful. The books on fallacies that they sell, I get nothing because I have no association with the owners or operators of that site. It just so happens that they sell a few things.

Me? I roast and sell coffee.

That, and I give away nonsense for free...:D

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
This thread should be locked at the top for everyone to read and learn. The following website has a good array of fallacies listing, with definitions and examples.
All who have a habit of attacking other people rather than the topic at hand should become better at their postings by learning from this listing how to become more effective at posting better content, especially content that doesn't get other people's threads deleted. Sabotage seems to be the inevitable outcome of bad posts.
LOGICAL FALLACIES
MM
______________________________________________________________________

MODERATOR'S STATEMENT:
The link in this post goes to a website which sells goods or services or solicits donations or goes to a self promotion site. Members are advised to be wary of ANY such donation requests or sales and to research the group or individual making the request or sales and to PRAY before sending ANY donation or before purchasing any goods or services.
Click to expand...

Musicmaster said:
Oh, and just so everyone knows, I have nothing to do with that site other than to have found the information useful. The books on fallacies that they sell, I get nothing because I have no association with the owners or operators of that site. It just so happens that they sell a few things.
Me? I roast and sell coffee. That, and I give away nonsense for free...:D
MM
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Hey, good coffee! Very smooth. Thank you, MM.

I read Logical Fallacies and every bit helps to stay "on topic," agree or disagree with love and respect but the bigger picture is to learn God's Word in a Christian discussion.

MM, sure, I always say a little prayer before logging on and ask, "how can God use me to uplift and encourage others?" It's so easy to let down my guard and hurt others with my writing and tongue.

If your opening statement was to suggest locking this thread as a guide for reading and learning, please confirm and I'll bring it to the staff.

God bless you, brother, and best wishes for your coffee.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hey, good coffee! Very smooth. Thank you, MM.

I read Logical Fallacies and every bit helps to stay "on topic," agree or disagree with love and respect but the bigger picture is to learn God's Word in a Christian discussion.

MM, sure, I always say a little prayer before logging on and ask, "how can God use me to uplift and encourage others?" It's so easy to let down my guard and hurt others with my writing and tongue.

If your opening statement was to suggest locking this thread as a guide for reading and learning, please confirm and I'll bring it to the staff.

God bless you, brother, and best wishes for your coffee.
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Bob, yes. I do confirm the Fallacies Page as a great learning tool for everyone who has never taken Logic coursework or even forensics courses in High School. Avoiding the pitfalls of discussion when it comes to such topics as theology, it's vastly important that everyone operate on the same level of operably discussion, and hopefully eradicate the outliers who are so fixated on ad hominem attacks against the other party or parties.

MM
 
in a forum there is no such thing as true blue discussion. i have been around them for sometime in one former a post was made on water baptism essential to salvation . it was the owner i disagreed used scripture i got the boot. people need to learn in disagreeing on a subject is not always arguing . we need to remember sitting behind the post is a person on a computer . you can be anything you want were all humans .

but one thing a forum is not and that is a Church. yes i have learned of many strange fire doctrines in a forum. that i had never heard of and after researching . i was stunned at the garbage people believe
 
bobinfaith said:
Hey, good coffee! Very smooth. Thank you, MM.

I read Logical Fallacies and every bit helps to stay "on topic," agree or disagree with love and respect but the bigger picture is to learn God's Word in a Christian discussion.

MM, sure, I always say a little prayer before logging on and ask, "how can God use me to uplift and encourage others?" It's so easy to let down my guard and hurt others with my writing and tongue.

If your opening statement was to suggest locking this thread as a guide for reading and learning, please confirm and I'll bring it to the staff.

God bless you, brother, and best wishes for your coffee.
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MM hit the nail's head! If you (and you do) you see all the examples of logical fallacies.

Personally. I think that I dislike the "Tu quoque " one the most! It is the one we see the most on forums.
People who use this fallacy try to invalidate their opponent's positions by attacking them personally rather than finding logical comments on the subject at hand. The arguer usually addresses their opponents with criticism and sarcasm and never approaches the topic.

Now I am not a phycologist, but just like you I had to take my share of courses in seminary and when we see that take place (Tu quoque) it is a sign of ignorance which manifests itself in the practice of deflection.

I once asked a professor why some people curse so much. I explained to him that there were several people I knew that when we talked, in just a minute ot two they began to curse all the time. He said and I quote him........ “Ignorance of VOCABULARY".

Example:. ..........""What do you know about managing a business? You don't even own a business of your own."

"PITY POT" would be a close 2nd!
People who use this fallacy attempt to appeal to a listener by provoking them emotionally about something that they are deficient in.

Example: ......."Why don't you accept what I am saying about nuclear reactors. Is it because I am not pretty, and I do not drive a Ford Ranger, BUT I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
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Ignorance of vocabulary?

No.

Jesus already addressed this:

Matthew 15:18 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man."

MM
 
Major said:
Personally. I think that I dislike the "Tu quoque " one the most! It is the one we see the most on forums.
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WOW.... Who knew there were names to all the games people play behind the keyboard. I tried to read the article but it's not for the faint hearted... nor is it a quick read. So many fallicies. Sub categories of sub categories. HA.

I did however recognize and resonate with the one you mentioned hating the most and YES... YES... YES.... this is the one we see the most on forums. This is what makes this place so refreshing.
 
In Awe of Him said:
WOW.... Who knew there were names to all the games people play behind the keyboard. I tried to read the article but it's not for the faint hearted... nor is it a quick read. So many fallicies. Sub categories of sub categories. HA.

I did however recognize and resonate with the one you mentioned hating the most and YES... YES... YES.... this is the one we see the most on forums. This is what makes this place so refreshing.
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Agreed!

Stright shooting is the best way to hit any target!

However, did you realize that most people do not like a straight shooter!!!! We like to be stroked and told smooth things to make us feel better about ourselves.

That is one of the reasons Jesus was killed as well as all the apostles prophets as well!
 
In Awe of Him said:
WOW.... Who knew there were names to all the games people play behind the keyboard. I tried to read the article but it's not for the faint hearted... nor is it a quick read. So many fallicies. Sub categories of sub categories. HA.

I did however recognize and resonate with the one you mentioned hating the most and YES... YES... YES.... this is the one we see the most on forums. This is what makes this place so refreshing.
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That spoiled young woman is simply a sampling of what's so wrong in youth today. So many of them being products of the Marxist/Fascist thinking projected throughout our public schools drives them to such textbook fallacies that they are clueless about their severe lack of critical thinking skills.

Paul of Tarsus said it well:

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Paul was a great purveyor of critical thinking.

So, in that conversation concerning government, she leaped forward with a conclusion without ever having constructed any premises upon which to try and build such a conclusion for government being such a protector. The Lord stated the purpose for government, which is to punish evil and reward good. Protecting everyone isn't the job of government, and those who recline in their homes without any weapon for protection, thinking that the government will protect them, they fail to understand the real purpose for government.

Worse than that, they fail at taking responsibility for their own lives. Therein is the fallacy within their desires. They fail to recognize the real world as it is. It has ALWAYS been a dangerous place.

So, in the final analysis, we see one key element that plays itself out among the various generations in existence today...pass the buck-ism!

In other words, far too many people simply don't want to accept and exercise responsibility for their own choices and actions. Passing responsibility over onto someone else, that's the cud that modern culture is chewing with utter indifference to personal responsibility. conversely, they are always happy to tell you what YOU should believe, how YOU should live YOUR life, how YOU should raise YOUR kids, all the while not wanting YOU to have any say in THEIR lives and choices.

The fallacies in the thinking of so many, they aren't necessarily "technical" fallacies, but rather fallacies of character, beliefs and moral stature...or lack thereof.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
So, in that conversation concerning government, she leaped forward with a conclusion without ever having constructed any premises upon which to try and build such a conclusion for government being such a protector. The Lord stated the purpose for government, which is to punish evil and reward good. Protecting everyone isn't the job of government, and those who recline in their homes without any weapon for protection, thinking that the government will protect them, they fail to understand the real purpose for government.
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I absolutely agree that it is NOT the government's job to protect me...I'm not sure if its safe to admit this here but I have NEVER voted in my life... and I am 60... I don't even know what a ballot looks like. When I was younger it was because I lived a very careless life and did not care about things.... but as I grew older... I could not bring myself to vote for the BETTER of the BAD. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't believe that any candidate can or has made a difference in how ANY country is run because the agenda has been set long ago. Its all a game.. and a very disgusting one in my opinion. I have only to watch the house of commons try to pass a vote to realize its a HUGE drama fest of WHO can be the wittiest.

Anyways... I find it surprising that a relatively young woman ( the one in the video ) had this belief as I have found here in Canada... It's generally the older generation that has full confidence in the institution of governmental powers. The young people seem to be the ones all about pushing their "special" causes and agendas. I can't bring myself to participate in any of it.

I am guilty of absolutely shutting down on anything to do with matters that aren't concerning God. I have a neighbour who calls me a very bad Christian because I do NOTHING... He thinks a Christian needs to rise up and shout about our FREEDOMS and RIGHTS... then there is the topic of Trump ( that I cannot even think about because I get so angry ). It's all like the song that never ends. It goes on and on and then. Funny how that phrase came from Lambchop the puppet. HAHA.

The sad thing in all of this POLITICAL mess is what Christians have allowed to HAPPEN... this very deep and profound fraction that has occurred since Trump and the vaccinations... is so offensive to me... it's evil beyond understanding... and so many are blinded by the reality of what is actually happening.

My only consolation in all this chaos is that I have chosen NOT to engage in any part of it.... even at the cost of being labelled a sheeple and all the other nasty names these "right fighters" dare to fling.
 
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In Awe of Him said:
I absolutely agree that it is NOT the government's job to protect me...I'm not sure if its safe to admit this here but I have NEVER voted in my life... and I am 60... I don't even know what a ballot looks like. When I was younger it was because I lived a very careless life and did not care about things.... but as I grew older... I could not bring myself to vote for the BETTER of the BAD. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't believe that any candidate can or has made a difference in how ANY country is run because the agenda has been set long ago. Its all a game.. and a very disgusting one in my opinion. I have only to watch the house of commons try to pass a vote to realize its a HUGE drama fest of WHO can be the wittiest.

Anyways... I find it surprising that a relatively young woman ( the one in the video ) had this belief as I have found here in Canada... It's generally the older generation that has full confidence in the institution of governmental powers. The young people seem to be the ones all about pushing their "special" causes and agendas. I can't bring myself to participate in any of it.

I am guilty of absolutely shutting down on anything to do with matters that aren't concerning God. I have a neighbour who calls me a very bad Christian because I do NOTHING... He thinks a Christian needs to rise up and shout about our FREEDOMS and RIGHTS... then there is the topic of Trump ( that I cannot even think about because I get so angry ). It's all like the song that never ends. It goes on and on and then. Funny how that phrase came from Lambchop the puppet. HAHA.

The sad thing in all of this POLITICAL mess is what Christians have allowed to HAPPEN... this very deep and profound fraction that has occurred since Trump is so offensive to me... it's evil beyond understanding... and so many are blinded by the reality of what is actually happening.

My only consolation in all this chaos is that I have chosen NOT to engage in any part of it.... even at the cost of being labelled a sheeple and all the other nasty names these "right fighters" dare to fling.
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Political activism is what the people of Jesus' time wanted Him to engage, and that simply wasn't His mission.

Dare we talk about the mission of the Church (you, me and all other who are in Christ), it isn't political activism. It's good to be engaged in voting and seeking to make the world a better place around us, both culturally and environmentally, but changing the world, as you know, isn't something that can be done through government. That's where the Jews went so wrong in their thinking when they demanded a king like all the other nations around them. They wanted a king who could be manipulated rather than a theocracy with judges who are not swayed by public opinion and polls.

The only good government that has or will ever exist is the theocracy of the Millennium, with Christ sitting on David's throne, as was promised to the ancients.

At 62, I'm still as feisty and pragmatic about the things of the Lord, and don't want to go soft in the head as have so many others in the past who ended up compromising and fudging on the most important things in life, such as right and proper, solid doctrines, purity of life and family, and teaching with a reverence for the double judgement that will be aimed at them for any and all falsehoods they spout with indifference.

Blessings to you and yours, and all others here.

MM
 
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