@major
due respect to you too
on your first reply, you say many false leaders use the word Jesus on their lips.
so a question, if these people use evil source though still use the word Jesus, how can one tell by their fruits?
if it's a pastor you rarely know, how can one tell if he's legit or not?
but from my view and understanding, Matt 7:21 is for everyone, none believers and even believers. Especially for the OSAS (once saved always saved) people.
@Major reply 2
how do you know Jesus wasn't speaking of his own commands? who is Jesus? isn't Jesus God?
if he is God, didn't God gave the 10 commandments to Moses?
How do you love God? by keeping his commands. How do you love Jesus? by keeping both the commands (10 commandments) and his own teachings (which he gave in Matthew 5 to 7).
You quoted Love thy God with all your heart, mind and soul.
But that command was already in the Old Laws.
same goes to the Love your neighbour as yourself scripture, all in old laws.
They were never a new command Jesus gave.
Deuteronomy 5:10
"but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."
Deuteronomy 6:5-6
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts."
Leviticus 19:18
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‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbour as yourself. I am the Lord."
As you can see, those two commandments were already in the old law.
Even teachers and experts of the law came to Jesus asking him how to enter heaven or have eternal life. They listed those old law commandments, Jesus was humble and listening with the expression of "hmmm...go on".
And then he gave one of his teachings to the rich man, telling him to sell his riches and give to poor. That's an example of his teachings in Matthew 5 to Matthew 7 (matt 6: giving to the needy). Which is exactly what the disciples did in Acts 3, sharing with the poor in the church. Which was exactly what Jesus taught.
Also linking to the Beatitudes, "blessed are the poor for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven". In fact, this beatitude was already mentioned as well in old testament!
Remember, during Jesus ministry, people were quoting the bible because they used the Old Testament has their biblical times. While we use both the Old and New testament in today.
@Major reply 3
again the Judging topic is something that needs to be looked into!
there are 3 definition of judging!
one is Judging someone by heart- basically you see someone in the street by the way they dress and you start to make your judgement call by saying "he's a gaylord, he's a gangster, he's a molester" etc. Without actually talking to the person and knowing why he dressed like that.
the second judging is by account/justice- if someone has done something wrong, and in order to get justice, that person must be judged for the bad thing he did.
The third judging is when you make a judgement call based on right and wrong decision. If you are driving, you would have to make judgement calls of when to stop, break, turn etc.
Paul actually dresses on this subject, and he did encourage us to judge INSIDE the church.
but this topic of judging is another subject for me I wouldn't look too deep into. There are other important subjects I must find out first from bible.
This will be least!
and I like how you took the bible out of context, saying how can we know what is good nor evil without judging, and preceded to say we are sinning. So from your view, if we don't judge to know right/wrong, therefore it is a sin? you've got to be kidding me.
In fact I remember having this discussion at a bible study, I can't remember if it was after I made this post or before this post.
But I was saying that we do have to judge things if we want to be cautious.
LUke 6:37
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“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
Like I said, 3 types of Judging meaning.
The judging of sinning that will be measured onto you is the sin judging which Luke 6:37 is talking about.
Judging of right and wrong is what Paul is talking about, the one we have to use.
Same goes to judging someone at church for justice, which Paul told us to do so.
even Jesus was trying to indicate we should use are judging in the church, this is why Jesus did not use the word "judge" not to use the judging for wrong intentions.
Matthew 18:15
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“If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
And yes Jesus did say we should judge with right judgement, which should be FROM the heart.
Again he told us that we can only know (JUDGE) people's fruit by what they bare.
Even though the bible does not say judging is a sin. Reading the do's and don'ts in bible makes sense not to mis judge!
If you judge someone because it's not a sin, couldn't it make you a hypocrite and to condemn yourself?
Romans 2:1
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You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."
Also it says, how ever you judge, the same measure will be judged unto you.
Romans 2:3
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So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?"
Again...more point to prove that there are 3 types of judging.
1- judging by heart to define right/wrong
2- judging by justice
3. judging by wrong heart, hate/condemnation/hypocrisy
In the end Jesus did not want us to judge each other or kill each other because of people's wrong, because he will give us justice on Judgement Day.
For an example, if you are going to judge a brother for hating, and you do the same. It brands you a liar and hypocrite, and Jesus will use the same judging method you used against that brother on you.
Romans 14:10
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You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat."
romans 14:13
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Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister."
1 Corinthians 2:15
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The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,"
As you can see...point proven again! It is our spirit that allows us to make right/wrong judgements. But we cannot go around passing judgement around.
For an example, I've seen many people quickly jump the boat and guns saying "oh, your doctrine is false", "where did you get this wrong doctrine from" etc (sadly, I used to be like that).
Who are we to judge other's teaching from the bible? how do we know what we teach is even right/wrong?
these kinds of judging can condemn us.
1 corinthians 4:3
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I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself."
You can see the 2 types of judging identified here:
*judging in heart from people, which Paul didn't care what they thought about him at heart
*judging justice from court
1 corinthians 4:4-5
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My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to lightwhat is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God."
As you can see...this is why it is important to really look DEEP into this subject.
Paul said we shouldn't judge, yet instructed us we should judge in church. So which should we do?
there are 3 types of judging.
This is the passage Paul encourages us to judge:
1 corinthians 5
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It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.......
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you."
This judging Paul encourages us to do is the justice. Which Jesus told us to do so about a brother committing a sin at church and you should take witnesses.
This is an example of judging right/wrong
1 corinthinas 11:13
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Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?"
Example of judging with bad heart
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4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?"
Again:/
James 4:11
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Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[a] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it."
James 4:12
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There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?"
As you can see...in the end.
Judge meaning:
- A public official appointed to decide cases in a court of law
- A person who decides the results of a competition
- An official at a sports contest who watches for infractions of the rules
- A person able or qualified to give an opinion on something
- she was a good judge of character
1. You judge someone in the court for a crime
2.3. You judge by what is right and wrong
4. You judge based on opinion without having right/wrong or fact/justice.
what does the bible say about Judging?
*Yes we are to judge the world and things around us what is right or wrong.
Make your judgement if you should celebrate Halloween, if it's right or wrong
or Make your judgement to watch a violent/sexual movie, if t's right or wrong
*Yes we are to judge ONLY what it is our church based on court law.
If a brother/sister is spreading false Gospel and bad things about church, you have to consult with witnesses, if that person doesn't listen. Take the matter to whole church. If that person doesn't listen, then everyone will be held accountable for the right judging to expel that person off the church.
*No we are NOT to judge brothers/sisters/others/world based on the things they do!
You see an unbeliever who fornicate all the time, we have no right to judge them or call them sinners, because we are and once were in that position.
You see a brother to likes to admiral women's body, you have no right to judge him of what he does. What about you? do you think of sexual things in your head?
So it's easy.
Judge what is right and wrong.
Judge when brother/sister is causing problem in the church
do not judge a brother on things they do, how they read the bible or how they worship on certain days.
. (i meant no offence).
