Who are you to warn me? I don't mutter or peep. The language I speak to the Lord has syntax and rhythm along with a growing vocabulary.
I don't see much love here, what with all the negative speech and judgment.
Macarthur's Understanding Of The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
Who are you to warn me? I don't mutter or peep. The language I speak to the Lord has syntax and rhythm along with a growing vocabulary.
I don't see much love here, what with all the negative speech and judgment.
No it was not.
There isn't any negativism here, ...I'm just being a Bereaen like my Father taught me, Acts 17:11 and for judgement, Jesus and Paul taught us to judge with the Word, so far all you have shown us is Scripture taken out of it's correct context and like I have stated before the Holy Spirit in me is not testifying to my spirit that it's in the context of how He wrote it.
Being like a Berean is all good, brother. Keep it up. I haven't taken anything out of context. I could certainly criticize you, but I won't, for the sake of peace.
While I agree with MacArthur most of the time, I have admitted that I once spoke in tongues. It took years for me to admit this to the leaders of my synagogue, admitting it only to one of the leaders after the subject came up, and I felt guilty == felt like I was hiding something, felt like a liar. I would have preferred to do almost anything other than admitting it.
And I finally admitted it here. I figured that none of you knew me, so that meant little skin off my back, and maybe I would learn something.
But the issue of tongues is very troubling for me. I would like to believe that tongues have ended, but then how will I explain what happened to me? I would like to say that it is all fakery, because I think that 99.9% of what I saw in my old church was fakery, and every incident of tongues I saw outside of that church was likely fake, but then how would I explain myself? I have asked a lot of questions here about the incident, and have gotten a lot of answers, but I still am unsure of the truth in this matter. I do feel slightly closer to the truth but I still don't know. I may never know.
And I finally admitted it here. I figured that none of you knew me, so that meant little skin off my back, and maybe I would learn something.
But the issue of tongues is very troubling for me. I would like to believe that tongues have ended, but then how will I explain what happened to me? I would like to say that it is all fakery, because I think that 99.9% of what I saw in my old church was fakery, and every incident of tongues I saw outside of that church was likely fake, but then how would I explain myself? I have asked a lot of questions here about the incident, and have gotten a lot of answers, but I still am unsure of the truth in this matter. I do feel slightly closer to the truth but I still don't know. I may never know.
Ha!
I love you more than you love me, ...I'm not going to discuss it with you.
You are a "mess"!
My comment would be that you simply got caught up in the worship experience of the moment. Adrenaline kicks in and then before you know it, you are doing what someone told you that believers did.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the reason behind most examples of speaking in tongues. BUT.....the more we learn and read the Scriptures the more we come to the realization that tongues ceased when the last of the apostles died.
But that is the problem --
- I didn't want to do it.
- It seriously was not worship -- I was merely talking to G-d about the Triple Trinity (the 9 who gossiped, causing the pastor to be removed)
- I was very angry, not seeking anything special, just telling G-d my disappointment
- I didn't like tongues, didn't want to speak in tongues, just wanted to be left alone
Because of a private note I received from someone here last night, I realized that perhaps the pastor who was being removed saw what happened -- maybe. While we have not communicated in years, I tried contacting him. He has not yet answered and may never. But maybe I can get a clue from him, if he witnessed what happened.
My husband saw what happened, and we've discussed the incident about three times, but I am not sure he understands where I am coming from, nor am I sure we believe alike on this subject.
I am thinking about discussing it with my children and their spouses, two of whom no longer believe in tongues, while the other two do.
CONTEXT my dear sister, CONTEXT!
First of all. The concluding section of Mark, verses 9-20 were nOT included in the two oldest manuscripts neither were they in any other ancient reliable sources. Most all Bible scholars agree that Mark ended his Gospel with verse #8.
However, when you lokk at chapter 16, there are verse 9-20. What then are we to conclude???? Always, ALWAYS when there is any uncertainty it is advisable to be very carful in basing any doctrine upon those verses in question especially Mark 16-18.
Secondly, if that advice is rejected, which it seems that is the case since you posted it, we must consider the reason for the verses in the 1st place.
Mark 16:14 tells us all we really need to know and in fact supports the cessation belief.
"Afterward He appeared unto the ELEVEN as THEY sat at meat, and upbraided THEM with THEIR unbelief and hardness of heart, because THEY believed not them which had seen Him after He was risen".
15). And He said unto THEM............".
Jesus has just commissioned the ELEVEN, His Apostles. "SIGNS FOLLOWING" indicates the pattern of the Apostles preaching and ministry. Matthew 28 confirms that Jesus was speaking to the ELEVEN Apostles and He gave them the SIGN gifts to validate their message and ministry.
All of that is them confirmed in Hebrews 2:3-4..........
"how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will."
Emotions are funny like that! You may say that there was no adrenaline involved, but I promise you that there was. It is 100% normal to happen.
Before you talk to the family, do some homework. Google....."Ancient pagan tongues" and investigate WHY tongues came into the 1st Christian church.
Do some work on WHO were the original ones to receive the "sign" gifts. WHAT does in fact the word "Sign" represent.
Please tell me, Major, that you are not writing that when the Apostles and others in ACTS (only) were speaking in different EARTHLY languages, and people were hearing in different EARTHLY languages, you do not include them in this assessment. I believe you will say that these incidents were real.
Yes, of course they were real.
That is why I said that "glossolalia" is not always a proof of the presence of the Holy Spirit because many pagans practiced it in their pagan worship ceremonies. Those people brought that practice into the Corinthian church thus the reason for Pauls' letter of correction.
Never the less, in Acts those men were given an unnatural ability to be understood in tongues that were not there own. The various languages being understood corresponded to the nationalities of those present.
I knew there was something especially nice about you....Yep!!! Guilty as charged, California born and raised.
@tezriLi - I think we are at the brink of "end times" (altho I hope I am wrong or passed before it). I believe you when you say you spoke in tongues. You say it was at a time when there were bad people trying to oust a Pastor and rule the roost, so to speak. It was in a congregation that held high the Tongues. You don't say whether you understood what you said but maybe it was God's message to you that it was time to leave that church? And He did it in a way just perfect for you?
I say we are at a period of time before great and terrible change. And I think God's message to us, altho complicated and perhaps coded - is all contained in the bible. Who could be a more perfect Prophet than Christ? I think what is left for us is to find people who can see the design in what has already been given and be able to connect it to what is happening today. The confusion is coming from those not of God.
I say we are at a period of time before great and terrible change. And I think God's message to us, altho complicated and perhaps coded - is all contained in the bible. Who could be a more perfect Prophet than Christ? I think what is left for us is to find people who can see the design in what has already been given and be able to connect it to what is happening today. The confusion is coming from those not of God.
Re: Pastor Morris. Gateway Church's logo is: "We're all about people." Personally, I think a church should be all about God. But, hey - that's me. There is no question that water baptism is about repentance. When Christ went to the Baptist (his cousin, btw) as Jesus had never sinned, there really was no reason for repentance but the HS came down in the form of a dove (not "like a dove"). Morris separates Jesus from the HS by his "ritual" by saying: Believe in Christ = salvation only? But in any event belief =no power. And water baptism = repentance. And HS baptism=sealed in. And Morris uses select scripture to prove his points. The usual Acts scripture to say that that "believers" had not heard of the HS and so they were baptized with such having only had water baptism. My reaction is: if they weren't told about the HS - they were not saved "correctly. New religion - new followers got it wrong. That's why the Apostles were following up on these baby churches. And the new church was headed by James, the brother of Jesus - not Paul. Belief in Jesus saves and you are given the HS then and there. Using the criminal on the cross next to Christ as an example blows Morris' argument but he sees it as the criminal "was only saved" and not given the "power". Morris says belief "only" gets you into the body of Christ, you still need to be baptized by Jesus with the HS or you don't get the "gifts" (all of them). He (Morris) doesn't seem to know Son=Father=HS. You can't believe in Christ without getting the HS. It doesn't come in separate packages and you don't get "power" . To promise this based on strung together scripture shows that he is taking out of context scripture to prove his point. He uses Moses tabernacle as proof that you need blood (animal sacrifice=repentance) - laver for cleaning (water baptism) - to flask of oil (annointing) = HS to get to God (Holy of Holies). Which sounds great except OT there was no salvation and no one but the priests were allowed into the Holy of Holies. And the number 3 is used all over OT & NT.
I need to stop being such a baby about this. I don't want to admit that it was tongues, but it was, no matter what I want to believe and no matter what I want others to believe about me.
No, Silk, I didn't understand what was said. I was too angry and shocked to give it a lot of consideration while it was happening. But I believed, at the time, that there was more to be said -- like a sentence more -- and I clamped my mouth shut, refusing to speak.
As far as leaving that church, the first time He prodded me to leave it was July of 1987. This happened in 1996, and I didn't leave until the following pastor excommunicated me in December of 1998. In my little corner of the world then, something major happened in that small congregation, and He used me as part of that change. All I know is that on the Sunday that was the good pastor's last, there were @ 212 attending that morning. It was my job, as the editor of their little newsletter to keep a conscious eye on the attendance. Within a couple weeks or so, the attendance dropped to 75, when the young people (teens through 30s), mainly other than those whose parents stayed, made their decided exodus. When I left in very late 1998, there were @ 40 left, and it dwindled from there, until the church closed this year? Last year? Probably last year.
G-d was in that closing. His judgment fell on a church that allowed child abuse, sexual abuse, gossipers and liars -- one that not only would not let Him be L-rd but one what was in extreme rebellion from the leaders other than the good pastor on down.
G-d help us! All of us from that place.
Something like what sounds to have happened in this church can be a terrible faith breaker. It sounds like your faith strengthened. Corrected? Maybe the wrong word. But I would be interested in what you find as answers.
May God's blessings continue to you