Men Ought Always to Pray?

[crossnote]

Luke 18:1 KJV
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

I agree, with this statement, but I'm not sure why. Jesus goes on to tell a parable about a callous judge and a needy but incessant widow.
There seems to be no answer to the 'why' in the parable except 'a persistent squeaky wheel gets the grease'.
Surely our heavenly Father is not unjust or callous?
Thoughts?
Help out?

 

[Musicmaster]

Luke 18:1 KJV
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

I agree, with this statement, but I'm not sure why. Jesus goes on to tell a parable about a callous judge and a needy but incessant widow.
There seems to be no answer to the 'why' in the parable except 'a persistent squeaky wheel gets the grease'.
Surely our heavenly Father is not unjust or callous?
Thoughts?
Help out?

(sigh) This goes to the level of social theology, which is the arena within which so much misunderstanding exists and is encouraged by, for example, Sunday school teachers who don't know what they're talking about. I know, because I've found myself victim to bad teaching many times throughout my years spent in those settings.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Pray without ceasing? This is but one of many absolutes that the ignorant masses push to the usual extreme of nonsense, as if the Lord demands that we keep our eyes shut at all times, steeped in prayer. I've even heard those ignoramouses chuckle at the thought, and write off those of us who believe it as being kooks and religious fanatics.

It's usually on deaf ears that we try to enlighten them about the deeper meaning in it all, with the key to it all being relationship. When I speak of "them," I'm talking about those who have an unmovable bias against scripture, and really don't give a rat's petoot about delving deeper into not only the text, but also the Spirit in order to glean a deeper understanding of things that reside beneath the canopy of seemingly extreme language as it was inspired to be written.

Jesus, when He brought up the widow and the pestered judge, who gave in on the basis of that pestering, what so many people miss in that is the one facet that seems to be the darkest, and therefore the most difficult to discern from all the rest. What this means is that the very dry prayer life so many professing believers have, they need to be pushed to this level of constantly seeking the Lord, who wants to be sought and petitioned, repeatedly especially by those whose prayer life is almost non-existent...except when they are in trouble and in grave need from their perception of what they see as being the Great Sugar Daddy in the sky.

In other words, people need to be prompted somehow to break out from their lethargy in prayer, and learn to literally pray without ceasing. They will ask, "How do we do that?" Well, that answer is understood only through meaningful and practiced prayer that has no pointed "amen" to it, but is ongoing throughout the entire day, every day. When our hearts are set upon the Lord continually, meaning that we do not practice the usual separation between the secular and sacred in daily life, and instead practice the fact that ALL of life resides within the sacred, each one THEN begins to understand not only ongoing relationship, but also what TRUE worship is all about, for Jesus Himself said:

John 4:22-24
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

This is the key to worship that I have heard very, very few preach upon. Prayer and worship should be like breathing each breath, which is always based upon necessity. THAT is the 'ethic' for prayer the Lord wants for us to adopt and embrace. We can keep our thoughts and conversation with the Lord ongoing throughout each and every day, without ceasing.

You see, the division between the secular and the sacred, THAT is what so many practice because of the bones of religion that they have allowed to calcify into their hearts and minds, thus making them double-minded. Being singular in mind means to see every moment, every thing, and everyone else as a sacred creation of God, upon whom our daily thoughts should be fixated upon without allowing that break in reality to ever take root, and that reality being that ALL is sacred in our world of thoughts...or SHOULD be.

Does that make sense?

MM

 

[crossnote]

Does that make sense?

.Depends, on how the next two comments flesh out.

What this means is that the very dry prayer life so many professing believers have, they need to be pushed to this level of constantly seeking the Lord, who wants to be sought and petitioned,

.

When our hearts are set upon the Lord continually, meaning that we do not practice the usual separation between the secular and sacred in daily life, and instead practice the fact that ALL of life resides within the sacred,

As I said, I agree that (believing) men ought always to pray, but I'm a bit dumbfounded that this exhortation is tied in with the parable of the needy widow and unrighteous judge.
Where the needy widow can be representative of humanity in it's desperate condition; when it comes to the judge, I suppose it could follow the line of,.."If an unrighteous judge can be merciful, how much more will your heavenly Father be merciful to those who (pester?) Him

 

[Musicmaster]

.Depends, on how the next two comments flesh out.

.

As I said, I agree that (believing) men ought always to pray, but I'm a bit dumbfounded that this exhortation is tied in with the parable of the needy widow and unrighteous judge.
Where the needy widow can be representative of humanity in it's desperate condition; when it comes to the judge, I suppose it could follow the line of,.."If an unrighteous judge can be merciful, how much more will your heavenly Father be merciful to those who (pester?) Him

Yes. I've heard a number of interpretive approaches to that parable of the widow and the judge.

Good stuff.

MM

 

[Origen]

As I said, I agree that (believing) men ought always to pray, but I'm a bit dumbfounded that this exhortation is tied in with the parable of the needy widow and unrighteous judge.
Where the needy widow can be representative of humanity in it's desperate condition; when it comes to the judge, I suppose it could follow the line of,.."If an unrighteous judge can be merciful, how much more will your heavenly Father be merciful to those who (pester?) Him

I think you are spot on. It is an argumentum a fortiori. Jesus makes this type of argument quite often.

"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!" (Matthew 7:11)

In the early rabbinic writings this type of argument is know as "kal va-chomer, chomer ve-kal."

List of Talmudic principles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Prayer is an act of faith.

 

[bobinfaith]

I agree that (believing) men ought always to pray, but I'm a bit dumbfounded that this exhortation is tied in with the parable of the needy widow and unrighteous judge. Where the needy widow can be representative of humanity in it's desperate condition; when it comes to the judge, I suppose it could follow the line of,.."If an unrighteous judge can be merciful, how much more will your heavenly Father be merciful to those who (pester?) Him

(sigh) This goes to the level of social theology, which is the arena within which so much misunderstanding exists and is encouraged by, for example, Sunday school teachers who don't know what they're talking about. I know, because I've found myself victim to bad teaching many times throughout my years spent in those settings.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Pray without ceasing? This is but one of many absolutes that the ignorant masses push to the usual extreme of nonsense, as if the Lord demands that we keep our eyes shut at all times, steeped in prayer. I've even heard those ignoramouses chuckle at the thought, and write off those of us who believe it as being kooks and religious fanatics.

It's usually on deaf ears that we try to enlighten them about the deeper meaning in it all, with the key to it all being relationship. When I speak of "them," I'm talking about those who have an unmovable bias against scripture, and really don't give a rat's petoot about delving deeper into not only the text, but also the Spirit in order to glean a deeper understanding of things that reside beneath the canopy of seemingly extreme language as it was inspired to be written.

Jesus, when He brought up the widow and the pestered judge, who gave in on the basis of that pestering, what so many people miss in that is the one facet that seems to be the darkest, and therefore the most difficult to discern from all the rest. What this means is that the very dry prayer life so many professing believers have, they need to be pushed to this level of constantly seeking the Lord, who wants to be sought and petitioned, repeatedly especially by those whose prayer life is almost non-existent...except when they are in trouble and in grave need from their perception of what they see as being the Great Sugar Daddy in the sky.

In other words, people need to be prompted somehow to break out from their lethargy in prayer, and learn to literally pray without ceasing. They will ask, "How do we do that?" Well, that answer is understood only through meaningful and practiced prayer that has no pointed "amen" to it, but is ongoing throughout the entire day, every day. When our hearts are set upon the Lord continually, meaning that we do not practice the usual separation between the secular and sacred in daily life, and instead practice the fact that ALL of life resides within the sacred, each one THEN begins to understand not only ongoing relationship, but also what TRUE worship is all about, for Jesus Himself said:

John 4:22-24
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

This is the key to worship that I have heard very, very few preach upon. Prayer and worship should be like breathing each breath, which is always based upon necessity. THAT is the 'ethic' for prayer the Lord wants for us to adopt and embrace. We can keep our thoughts and conversation with the Lord ongoing throughout each and every day, without ceasing.

You see, the division between the secular and the sacred, THAT is what so many practice because of the bones of religion that they have allowed to calcify into their hearts and minds, thus making them double-minded. Being singular in mind means to see every moment, every thing, and everyone else as a sacred creation of God, upon whom our daily thoughts should be fixated upon without allowing that break in reality to ever take root, and that reality being that ALL is sacred in our world of thoughts...or SHOULD be.

Does that make sense?

MM

Hello crossnote;

Jesus is teaching us two or three fold in Luke 18:1, And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; then why does He immediately follow with a parable between the widow and unjust judge, that at first doesn't seem to align?

When men and women pray without ceasing, our prayer life increases, in that Christ reveals what we know what to pray for, and who we are to pray for. In this example of the widow her persistence may pay off with the judge only to get her off his back, unlovingly. Compared to God, He doesn't see us as a pest but loves to receive our prayers, needs and desires and answers us lovingly because He loves us so much.

Jesus' parable had this meaning, the widow was pursuing the unjust judge on her own and didn't have the support of others who would pray and help her.

God bless you, crossnote.
-------------------------------------------------

Hello Musicmaster;

After reading your good post it covered all sides and going in one direction. God commands us to pray, not token prayers or prayers that we put on the shelf and then forget until it pops up again in our mind, "why hasn't God answered me?"

The preachers and Bible / Sunday teachers who don't know what they're talking about regarding incessant prayer, could be a question of their own personal prayer life. They may share Scriptures in the lesson but it doesn't sink in by the manner they present.

Imagine a brother or sister who prays fervently, you're going to believe them just by the way they share and provide Scriptures to the most extreme prayer requests that seem impossible. When God answers out of nowhere they reveal how amazing He is with His promises.

When men and women ought always pray without ceasing calms our hearts and spirits while increasing our faith.

Late last night I was printing the sermon for Church the next morning. The wifi was so intermittent so I saved it on my iPad. When I arrived at Church my pad couldn't log on to the wifi. So I emailed the sermon within the Church office and they printed it. The overall worship went well, praise God. I then went to Best Buy and bought a cable to link my printer to the computer hard drive and this solved my printing problem and no more intermittent wifi.

God bless you, MM.

 

[forgiven61]

6 things that can hinder our prayer life,

1.idols in our life anything that comes between us and God, Ezekiel 14:3
2. unforgiveness Mark 11:25
3. unconfessed sin Psalm 66:18 & (Isaiah 59:2
4. improper relationship between husband and wife 1 Peter 3:7
5 lack of faith James 1:5–8
6 selfishness James 4:3

there are few more but i decided go with these scriptures

 

[crossnote]

6 things that can hinder our prayer life,

1.idols in our life anything that comes between us and God, Ezekiel 14:3
2. unforgiveness Mark 11:25
3. unconfessed sin Psalm 66:18 & (Isaiah 59:2
4. improper relationship between husband and wife 1 Peter 3:7
5 lack of faith James 1:5–8
6 selfishness James 4:3

there are few more but i decided go with these scriptures

Guilty on all 6 counts, but I'm thankful I still have access into His presence through the blood of Jesus Christ...

1 John 1:7-10 NKJV
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[forgiven61]

Guilty on all 6 counts, but I'm thankful I still have access into His presence through the blood of Jesus Christ...

these are prayer blocker and 4 is cheating on our spouse. i probably should have not made the post...

 

[Big Moose]

Yes, this passage really comes off as "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". But follow what comes after-
Luke
18 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’ ”

6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

If I may give a perspective of another way to look at this: Jesus says, "Did you hear what the unjust judge said? Horrible, right? Now think what our loving God will do. Won't He do so much more for His own? God has so much patience for you and allows so many extra chances for you to show some faith. But even so, will the Son of Man find faith, even from His own people, Christians?"
We can put this passage with:
Matthew 7:
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Now, what you receive and find behind that opened door could be different from what you expect. But we know it will be what we need and will work out for our good. (Romans 8:28)

The following verses in Luke 18 speak of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector and their types of prayer. See the theme here? The Pharisee came off as arrogant, but the Tax Collector was humble and honest about his station. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who are humble will be exalted.

Finally the next set of verses, 15-17, have the disciples trying to shoo away the little children who are interrupting Jesus' teaching. Jesus calls the children to Him and makes this an example of what our attitude should be. We should have the attitude of a child soaking up information, learning and being amazed by all the things we have yet to learn. Again, a humbleness of the heart, not being arrogant that we know it all.

And, persistence in prayer is a good thing. I think we learn a lot from praying since we get a connection with God. Be like the little children who wanted to connect with Jesus.

 

[bobinfaith]

Yes, this passage really comes off as "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". But follow what comes after-
Luke
18 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’ ”

6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

If I may give a perspective of another way to look at this: Jesus says, "Did you hear what the unjust judge said? Horrible, right? Now think what our loving God will do. Won't He do so much more for His own? God has so much patience for you and allows so many extra chances for you to show some faith. But even so, will the Son of Man find faith, even from His own people, Christians?"
We can put this passage with:
Matthew 7:
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Now, what you receive and find behind that opened door could be different from what you expect. But we know it will be what we need and will work out for our good. (Romans 8:28)

The following verses in Luke 18 speak of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector and their types of prayer. See the theme here? The Pharisee came off as arrogant, but the Tax Collector was humble and honest about his station. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who are humble will be exalted.

Finally the next set of verses, 15-17, have the disciples trying to shoo away the little children who are interrupting Jesus' teaching. Jesus calls the children to Him and makes this an example of what our attitude should be. We should have the attitude of a child soaking up information, learning and being amazed by all the things we have yet to learn. Again, a humbleness of the heart, not being arrogant that we know it all.

And, persistence in prayer is a good thing. I think we learn a lot from praying since we get a connection with God. Be like the little children who wanted to connect with Jesus.

Good morning, Big Moose;

You posted a very nice outline and I agree that what we receive behind the opened door could be different from what we expected. I find this is always best because it comes from the Lord.

I had a serious prayer request back when I was 26 years old. When the Lord brought my wife and me together, it was the best opened door compared to what I envisioned. She and I would go through tough times in life but I can't think of a better partner to get through it all with the Lord's guidance.

God bless you, Big Moose.