Blessedly, in Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave nor freeman...
Amen
MM
Mosaic Law and Our Relationship To It As Shown By Christ
- Thread starter Musicmaster
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Blessedly, in Christ, there is no Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave nor freeman...
Amen
MM
Mark 11, we read this........
"Then they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who were selling doves; 16 and He would not permit anyone to carry merchandise through the temple. 17 And He began to teach and say to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? But you have made it a robbers’ den.”
It had nothing to do with the Jews sacrificing. Look at the literal words of Jesus......."But you have made it a robbers’ den.”
“den of thieves,” means the Priests were ripping off innocent people who were forced to convert their currency into a currency the Temple would accept and also rejecting the worshipers only animals and told they were insufficient and would have to buy one from them.
When people came from all over Judea during the Roman occupation, they often brought their own animals to sacrifice. But if the distance was too far, they would have to purchase an animal to sacrifice in Jerusalem. There the prices and the quality of the animals were questionable, and the vendors or money exchangers were taking advantage of those who came from afar.
The Priests would tell the worshippers that their animal was not acceptable and insist that they buy an animal there at the Temple. They would simply take that animal around to the back lot, wait till someone else came and sell that animal all over again.
Robin.......the Jews were doing exactly what they were supposed to do in the Jewish religion.
In a "short while" is not the issue! Jesus did not present Himself as the Messiah until Palm Sunday. At the time of the Temple cleansing, He was yet still the COMING Messiah!
You are correct...........BUT, as MM said.......do you have a point to make because what you are saying is what we all believe!
There is NO need to "Go Out". It is that we would like to understand what you are trying to say so that we can give you proper responses!
NO. Melchizedek was a Priest.
In Psalms 110, Melchizedek is presented as a type of Christ. This theme is repeated in the book of Hebrews, where both Melchizedek and Christ are considered kings of righteousness and peace. By citing Melchizedek and his unique priesthood as a type, the writer shows that Christ’s new priesthood is superior to the old Levitical order and the priesthood of Aaron.
Everything you have here is for the making of the tabernacle where they would worship the LORD. He didn't need any of this, it was all so that they would have a place to come to worship.
Agreed!
Agreed! You do not have to do anything at all.
No lion's den here. I love Yah and Yah's word. I love the words of Yahshuah, and I love everyone here, including you. I love the words written by the prophets. The non-broken continuance and overall flow of the Lord's revelations to us is an amazing thing to behold that no man has ever mastered.
Personally, I don't understand what you're trying to say in posting those verses since you don't come right out and speak your mind clearly.
Not to sound accusatory, it's just that I'm expressing my lack of understanding as to what you're trying to say in it all. Are you in favor of observing the feasts, kosher, Sabbaths, et al? I have no problem with that. We have the freedom to do those things. They are great reminders of the wonderful and glorious things the Lord has done.
Are you in favor of teaching the requirement for the observances, diet and Sabbaths? If so, then I would appreciate your take on it. Many encounters with Hebrew Roots have shown to me a broad range of interpretations, given that they have no centralized, defining theology. If from the perspective of Judaism is your take on it all, then that too is an interesting discussion, but Gentiles most generally gravitate toward one of the numerous HR lines of thought.
So, please, enlighten me. I invite discussion of the topic, not ad hominem attacks against others. I'd appreciate you giving to us your thoughts about this topic, and I hope you don't mind my asking related questions, and counter discussion from another's perspective.
MM
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
That one verse has led many to believe that Yahshuah's ministry was relevant only for Israel, which is true in part, but the totality of His work stretches out across ALL the earth and all peoples. Those who believe they can rightly compartmentalize Yahshuah only to Israel fail to read onward in that context:
Matthew 15:25-28
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Notice that Yahshuah did not chastise her for inferring, very precisely, and without lack in clarity, the woman's comparative imagery that is consistent with His words...in that she continued His narrative of her as being compared to a dog, and He the Master at the table. Master. That says so much.
Faith. That is the one thing that riveted His attention and consideration upon her. That one thing erased the line of distinction, bridging the gap, that would otherwise have kept her from receiving anything from Yahshuah by way of healing for her daughter. The same happened with the Roman Centurion and his servant. Faith is the one thing that brought into existence that crossover. Is that any different today?
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Once the Law and the prophets, the first Covenant, is fulfilled, then its demands and requirements are no longer binding. It's not "destroyed," as it is written, but fulfilled. The moral absolutes expressed from the foundation of Yah's Law are not necessarily done away with, but we are then drawn to Matthew 5 where even the moral elements within the Mosaic Law are shown by Yahshuah as being inferior to the Law of Yah.
Matthew 10:34-35
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 12:49, 51
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? ...
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Time and time again He reminds us that the effects of His coming have far greater reach than just the Jews.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
We see here that the scope of His presence, again, is not limited by the borders of Israel nor the bloodline, but rather all-encompassing. The main advantage for Jews, which Paul recognized, was that when God gave His revelations to the human race, He gave it through the Jews. He did not call upon Gentile ministers for this purpose...until the Jewish nation was cut off, only to be grafted back in at a later time when the Lord is finished tending and pruning the wild branches.
Romans 11:17, 24
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, ...
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who [are] natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?
Amen.
As an Israeli, I have felt very much alone, with my brethren having been cut off for a time. In time, I realized that...well, I'm not alone, and the Lord is not yet finished with us, for my brethren will one day be grafted back in...
MM
Yeesh! I saw a few clips from Jim Staley this morning. My, my, but there is such a broad range of departures from scripture, history and reality out there that, dare one try to take it all in, can create a cacophony of noises that can drive one batty if not rooted in the solidity of the Spirit of the Lord:
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who [try to] deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Amen
MM
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who [try to] deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Amen
MM
I was wondering when Rob would get around to making this observation, in that godly love is the highest expression for obedience to the Law of God. What made the Mosaic Law inferior was not only that it could not save anyone, but it only expressed the minimum level of fulfillment and obedience to the Will of God for moral behavior. The Law of God drives right down to the heart of each individual...something the Mosaic Law did not do.
Here's another VERY interesting distinction that the Lord Himself worked out through the Grecian people of Athens in 600 BC.
A prophet of God passed through Athens at that time when a plague was killing many in that city and countryside, and the prophet of God told them to release a flock of lambs, and wherever any of them laid down, sacrifice that lamb in that place as a way of ending the plague. Pagans...commanded to offer up sacrifices unto God...pagans who were not in the priestly line required of the Israelites by God, during the time long after the Mosaic Law was written...yet another phenomenon where the Mosaic Law was not applied to the Gentiles! There it is! The HR followers should read and heed Acts 17 and the history of the Greeks to see how the Lord had them doing what was forbidden within the nation of Israel.
This is yet another amazing reality by which the Israelites were set apart from the Gentiles. For a more detailed explanation, here is a great video by Dr. John Barnett on the subject:
A prophet of God passed through Athens at that time when a plague was killing many in that city and countryside, and the prophet of God told them to release a flock of lambs, and wherever any of them laid down, sacrifice that lamb in that place as a way of ending the plague. Pagans...commanded to offer up sacrifices unto God...pagans who were not in the priestly line required of the Israelites by God, during the time long after the Mosaic Law was written...yet another phenomenon where the Mosaic Law was not applied to the Gentiles! There it is! The HR followers should read and heed Acts 17 and the history of the Greeks to see how the Lord had them doing what was forbidden within the nation of Israel.
This is yet another amazing reality by which the Israelites were set apart from the Gentiles. For a more detailed explanation, here is a great video by Dr. John Barnett on the subject:
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Dr. Barnett is totally correct!
Galatians 3:19-25
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Some of my legalistic acquaintances have had issues with the terminology of being "under the law." Many of those in that crowd who practice and teach that we are ALL beholden to Torah also believe that one cannot be saved by the Blood of Christ alone, but must also seek to obey Torah as best they can as they continue to learn of its requirements!
Folks, Galatians 3 is only one portion of so much that is said on this topic, and yet in just these few verses, we can see that the Law, specifically Shabbat, as is stated on Exodus 31, was a requirement laid upon Israel to set them apart from the other nations, AND for the rest, it served as a schoolmaster to bring all to Christ through faith upon learning about the lost state of the soul that is indeed under the curse of the Law who are not covered by the Blood of Christ.
So, when you hear someone complaining how a loving God could cast anyone into Hell, remind them that it's not God who is casting anyone into Hell in that last and final judgement. It's those souls going there of their own free will after having rejected the Blood of Christ, and choosing to remain under the curse of the Law. The the strength of that Law and its curse upon those not delivered from its power, THAT is the force and power that consigns those souls to Hell.
MM
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Some of my legalistic acquaintances have had issues with the terminology of being "under the law." Many of those in that crowd who practice and teach that we are ALL beholden to Torah also believe that one cannot be saved by the Blood of Christ alone, but must also seek to obey Torah as best they can as they continue to learn of its requirements!
Folks, Galatians 3 is only one portion of so much that is said on this topic, and yet in just these few verses, we can see that the Law, specifically Shabbat, as is stated on Exodus 31, was a requirement laid upon Israel to set them apart from the other nations, AND for the rest, it served as a schoolmaster to bring all to Christ through faith upon learning about the lost state of the soul that is indeed under the curse of the Law who are not covered by the Blood of Christ.
So, when you hear someone complaining how a loving God could cast anyone into Hell, remind them that it's not God who is casting anyone into Hell in that last and final judgement. It's those souls going there of their own free will after having rejected the Blood of Christ, and choosing to remain under the curse of the Law. The the strength of that Law and its curse upon those not delivered from its power, THAT is the force and power that consigns those souls to Hell.
MM
Hello Musicmaster;
We need to pray for your legalistic acquaintances. The world continues to evolve with diversions that can blind the hope of Christ replacing it with no hope in Christ.
My community is large and many also remain bound by the law, traditions, customs and the sort. What I find baffling are the ones who don't give it a thought while carrying all that weight, even during these times. YIKES!
I have to believe. For those who get it, let go of the weight and arrive at putting on Christ.
Galatians goes on with verses 26:29, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. - RSV
God bless you, brother.
This is a curious comment. Would you mind elaborating further on this?
Thanks, Bob.
MM
Hello MM;
I'm happy to. Our community is the San Francisco Bay Area of 7 million. The Christian community is overwhelmed by the large diverse mix of religions and thinking including what you shared in your post#35.
I hope this helps, brother.
Bob
How many are living in the streets of S.F. ???? Anyone remember that detective TV series????? What a total mess!