Old Test. Christians?

Nov 12, 2007
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Old Test. Christians?

I was reading in St. John 5:24 "whosoever believes on him that sent me has everlasting life." That's talking about God, right? God sent Him. I thought that was Jesus we had to believe on.

Does this mean that in the OT, before Christ came in bodily form, people like Abraham and Moses would be saved because they certainly believed in God. What happened to these people when they died? Did they go right to Heaven? Bonnie
 

Jax

Jul 26, 2007
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We are reconciled to the Father through the Blood of Jesus.
By belieivng in Jesus we belive in the Father also.
I believe the OT patriots werre saved because of their Faith in God, if you look at their lives they often got things wrong and sinned, but they sought God with their whole hearts.
I also believe that it is possible that Jesus' Blood was also shed retrospectively, in that I mean, that He looked back through history at who had been and who was to come, and all that believed in Him, and His Blood was shed for all.
Isnt it amazing that even the word HISTORY spells out His Story!
 
Oct 2, 2007
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The short answer is that believing on God is the same as believing on Jesus, as they are one. The OT believers looked forward to the Christ's work on the cross, having been given archetypes of the atonement in sacrificial practices and later, The Law. Immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, there was a shedding of blood to provide a covering. Abel's offering, which involved the shedding of blood, was accepted while Cain's, the product of his labor, was rejected. So from the very beginning God provided a revelation pointing to the atonement.

The prophets also spoke of Jesus and what He would do, sometimes cryptically, sometimes symbolically, sometimes in straightforward terms. With the knowledge of the Law and the prophets, the Jewish leaders of the day should have recognized Jesus; at least should have understood what the cross was all about.

The Old Testament believers' faith and practice were according to the revelation they had, but they were only sufficient because Christ was the substance and ultimately object of their faith and practice. They were justified not by the blood of rams and bulls, but by the blood of Jesus.

As for your last question, I'll leave that to others who have studied it more. There are all kinds of discussions about hades and sheol and soul sleep and Abraham's bosom and heaven that tend to make my eyes glaze over. :)
 
Dec 3, 2007
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Just a quick question

: What about the verse where Jesus told the thief on the cross beside Him "Today,you will be with Me in Paradise"?
 

Pastor Gary

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Fluffy - Please refer to Luke 16:19-31 (KJV) in the parable of 'Lazarus and the Rich Man' as to where those who are saved go and where those who are not saved go. According to Luke 16:19-31 (KJV), BOTH go to heaven (paradise) but are separated by a gulf - or chasm - which can not be crossed until those on the wrong side of the gulf are taught about Christ and either accept Him or not. If they don't, they end up in the Lake of Fire with Satan after the 1000 year millenium of teaching spoken about in Revelation 20 (KJV).
 
Oct 1, 2007
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Pastor Gary, I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that Luke 16:19-31 indicates that someone can come to Christ after their death?
BOTH go to heaven (paradise) but are separated by a gulf - or chasm - which can not be crossed until those on the wrong side of the gulf are taught about Christ and either accept Him or not
.
Here is the verse of the gulf:
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. LUKE16:26
I just didnt see where in this reference Abraham stated that once one was on one side of the gulf, they could ever cross, whether they accepted Christ or not. Do you have another scripture that expounds on the gulf and the inhabitants on the side of Hell being allowed to cross over? Please understand I'm not trying to contradict or correct you. I am only trying to understand what you are saying to the fullest extant that you intended, as well as the full meaning of the verses you referred to.
As far as my take on the OT saints, their faith in God and obedience to His commands are what will be wieghed for or against them, and Christ will speak for those saints as He will speak for us.
 
Nov 12, 2007
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If I am remembering correctly, before the ressurection of Christ people whose faith was in Yahweh went to Paradise... Now they go to Heaven...
I don't know about that, but if when you die now and you go to Heaven, I don't see why Lazareth would have a 2nd chance by going to Paradise and we don't. Or, is it considered a 2nd chance if you make it thru the Tribulation without having taken the mark?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Eyes....glazing.....over...SLAP!! Thank you. I feel so much better, now.

How does Lazarus get a second chance? He was in Paradise with Abraham. Or do you mean the rich man? In which case, I agree with you. This gives rise to other questions. If the rich man gets another chance during the millenium, why is he already in torment? Should they not both be in limbo until taught about Jesus and being given a chance to accept or reject Him?
Anyway, my money is that on whatever side of the gulf an old testament person found himself, he might as well unpack his bags, he isn't crossing over.
 
Jan 15, 2008
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Pastor Gary, I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that Luke 16:19-31 indicates that someone can come to Christ after their death?
.
Here is the verse of the gulf:

I just didnt see where in this reference Abraham stated that once one was on one side of the gulf, they could ever cross, whether they accepted Christ or not. Do you have another scripture that expounds on the gulf and the inhabitants on the side of Hell being allowed to cross over? Please understand I'm not trying to contradict or correct you. I am only trying to understand what you are saying to the fullest extant that you intended, as well as the full meaning of the verses you referred to.
As far as my take on the OT saints, their faith in God and obedience to His commands are what will be wieghed for or against them, and Christ will speak for those saints as He will speak for us.
Wow, I never knew this...I think. Lol, I need to study more! XP