Over the River!

Oct 8, 2011
1,365
481
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Winfield, Mo.
It would be well for us to consider the twofold bearing of the type of the Jordan River in Joshua Four. In Colossians Two and Three, we have that which clearly corresponds to these two things. The end of Chapter 2 reminds the Colossians that they were “dead with Christ.” Verses 12 and 13 show the two things. “Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead”; and then he repeats it in another form to show what their state was when this mighty change was wrought in them. “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him.”

Thus in verse 20, Paul takes up one of these truths—“dead with Christ.” This answers to the center of the Jordan, that place where the waters of death were ordinarily rolling, and completely blotted out from view all that was beneath them. “If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world.” Then, in the beginning of Chapter 3, we have, “If ye be risen with Christ.” This answers to the stones taken up out of the water and placed on the other side (Josh 3:16; 4:3). “Seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.” Then in verse 3 we have both truths again: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God”—that which is represented by the stones taken out of the river and placed on the other side. We have our Lord Jesus risen from the dead and seated in heavenly places, and we are in Him there (in heaven, the other side—NC). Then, “seek those things which are above” (I see this command not related to becoming redeemed but for the redeemed to find their sustenance in heaven and its Hosts, instead of in “things on the earth” (v 2)—NC).

The great point I would desire to leave with your hearts is this—the amazing pains our Father has taken that we should have complete rest and joy in being one with the Lord Jesus where He is in glory (which is as certain as if we were there presently with Him and not just presently in Him by His Spirit. We are in Him now but will inevitably be with Him, which is a knowing “hope” and not merely a hopeful-hope—NC). We are in Him dead to everything that the flesh (old man—NC) values and covets in this world (1Co 7:31—NC). A Christian has died not only to the evil of the world, but to its very best—to all that man likes most and that tends to exalt him and give him a place in the world. The death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus have given us to know that the flesh is good for nothing; that everything to which man can be formed by moral (see note below—NC) and religious education only proves that the flesh is thoroughly useless Godward, nay, hateful (Psa 97:10; Pro 8:13; 1Pe 3:11—NC) and already condemned by God (Jhn 3:18—NC).

Man says, “Touch not, taste not, handle not” (Col 2:21, 22); but God shows that for us He has done forever with this principle (now God-centered instead of man-centered—NC). All the system of restraint was connected with the “old man,” which faith has to treat now as dead (see note below—NC). My case was so utterly desperate that I required a new creation (not a recreation of our spirit but eternally implanted with the newly created nature - Eph 4:24, after Christ - Col 3:10, making us “partakers” of His “nature” - 2Pe 1:4—NC). This my Father has wrought for me in the Lord Jesus: I am now identified no longer with the old thing (nor with anything related with it – Ro 8:9—NC), but with His position and condition, and this is intended to govern my ways by nature—new nature. Any union with the world and its schemes, objects and ways in unhallowed union with it is as unnatural as the marriage of a corpse with a living man.

We are not only dead with the Lord Jesus (Col 2:20), but alive with Him (Rom 6:11). So truly am I one with Him that whatever is an object of interest and concern to Him should be of interest and concern to me. It is easy enough to be taken up, even with souls preaching anything in connection with the old man instead of with the new Man. Let us bear in mind, in order to unsparing judgment of the old within, that we are new creations (because of the new nature—NC) in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that as such, our hearts should go out to everything that is precious to our Father and His Beloved Son.



—Wm Kelly (1821-1906)





Note: morality is a natural quality and godliness a spiritual quality. For example, the Decalogue as natural, centering on God’s command to man between that which is of man, not requiring the indwelling of the Spirit of God; and the righteousness of Christ as godliness, centering on God’s command to man of that which is between Himself and man, requiring the Spirit’s indwelling. One can be morally correct but not God-centered. Yet one who is God-centered will be morally correct. —NC

Note: being free from the “dominion” of the old man (Ro 6:14) allows the Spirit to conform us via His “fruit,” which needs no law for control (Gal 5:23), as the Decalogue did; for God now “works” this desire for Him in us (Phl 2:13). —NC
 

CPerkins

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The great point I would desire to leave with your hearts is this—the amazing pains our Father has taken that we should have complete rest and joy in being one with the Lord Jesus where He is in glory (which is as certain as if we were there presently with Him and not just presently in Him by His Spirit. We are in Him now but will inevitably be with Him, which is a knowing “hope” and not merely a hopeful-hope—NC). We are in Him dead to everything that the flesh (old man—NC) values and covets in this world (1Co 7:31—NC). A Christian has died not only to the evil of the world, but to its very best—to all that man likes most and that tends to exalt him and give him a place in the world. The death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus have given us to know that the flesh is good for nothing; that everything to which man can be formed by moral (see note below—NC) and religious education only proves that the flesh is thoroughly useless Godward, nay, hateful (Psa 97:10; Pro 8:13; 1Pe 3:11—NC) and already condemned by God (Jhn 3:18—NC).

Our hope then is this new man born through Christ. Christ has freed us from the bondage of sin making us new in him though we only have the earnest of the Spirit at this time. It is this that gives us rest or peace.


Note: being free from the “dominion” of the old man (Ro 6:14) allows the Spirit to conform us via His “fruit,” which needs no law for control (Gal 5:23), as the Decalogue did; for God now “works” this desire for Him in us (Phl 2:13). —NC

We take on a new lighter yoke in Christ no longer subject to the God of this world, Satan. Now we are subject to God.

cp
 
Oct 8, 2011
1,365
481
83
Winfield, Mo.
Our hope then is this new man born through Christ. Christ has freed us from the bondage of sin making us new in him though we only have the earnest of the Spirit at this time. It is this that gives us rest or peace.
Hi, thanks for the reply, and like your comments. Amen, from the creation work of the indwelling Spirit comes the new nature and new life, not of Himself but of the Lord Jesus (Col 3:4), which answers to "He shall not speak of Himself . . . He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you" (Jhn 16:13, 14).


We take on a new lighter yoke in Christ no longer subject to the God of this world, Satan. Now we are subject to God.
"Christ exhorts such persons who come to him for rest and happiness, to profess their faith in him, to embrace the doctrines of the Gospel, to submit to his ordinances, and to walk according to those laws, commands, and orders, which he, as king of saints, has made, and requires obedience to: so those who come to him for life, and believe in him, as the Savior of their souls, though they are not to trust in, and depend upon any duties performed by them; yet they are not to sit still, or lay aside the performance of good works, or live a licentious course of life, but are always to be doing the will and work of their Lord. And this he calls "his yoke," in distinction from the yoke of the law of Moses, and of the traditions of the elders" (John Gill).
 
Jan 18, 2021
124
89
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72
Milw. Wisconsin.
It would be well for us to consider the twofold bearing of the type of the Jordan River in Joshua Four. In Colossians Two and Three, we have that which clearly corresponds to these two things. The end of Chapter 2 reminds the Colossians that they were “dead with Christ.” Verses 12 and 13 show the two things. “Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead”; and then he repeats it in another form to show what their state was when this mighty change was wrought in them. “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him.”

Thus in verse 20, Paul takes up one of these truths—“dead with Christ.” This answers to the center of the Jordan, that place where the waters of death were ordinarily rolling, and completely blotted out from view all that was beneath them. “If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world.” Then, in the beginning of Chapter 3, we have, “If ye be risen with Christ.” This answers to the stones taken up out of the water and placed on the other side (Josh 3:16; 4:3). “Seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.” Then in verse 3 we have both truths again: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God”—that which is represented by the stones taken out of the river and placed on the other side. We have our Lord Jesus risen from the dead and seated in heavenly places, and we are in Him there (in heaven, the other side—NC). Then, “seek those things which are above” (I see this command not related to becoming redeemed but for the redeemed to find their sustenance in heaven and its Hosts, instead of in “things on the earth” (v 2)—NC).

The great point I would desire to leave with your hearts is this—the amazing pains our Father has taken that we should have complete rest and joy in being one with the Lord Jesus where He is in glory (which is as certain as if we were there presently with Him and not just presently in Him by His Spirit. We are in Him now but will inevitably be with Him, which is a knowing “hope” and not merely a hopeful-hope—NC). We are in Him dead to everything that the flesh (old man—NC) values and covets in this world (1Co 7:31—NC). A Christian has died not only to the evil of the world, but to its very best—to all that man likes most and that tends to exalt him and give him a place in the world. The death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus have given us to know that the flesh is good for nothing; that everything to which man can be formed by moral (see note below—NC) and religious education only proves that the flesh is thoroughly useless Godward, nay, hateful (Psa 97:10; Pro 8:13; 1Pe 3:11—NC) and already condemned by God (Jhn 3:18—NC).

Man says, “Touch not, taste not, handle not” (Col 2:21, 22); but God shows that for us He has done forever with this principle (now God-centered instead of man-centered—NC). All the system of restraint was connected with the “old man,” which faith has to treat now as dead (see note below—NC). My case was so utterly desperate that I required a new creation (not a recreation of our spirit but eternally implanted with the newly created nature - Eph 4:24, after Christ - Col 3:10, making us “partakers” of His “nature” - 2Pe 1:4—NC). This my Father has wrought for me in the Lord Jesus: I am now identified no longer with the old thing (nor with anything related with it – Ro 8:9—NC), but with His position and condition, and this is intended to govern my ways by nature—new nature. Any union with the world and its schemes, objects and ways in unhallowed union with it is as unnatural as the marriage of a corpse with a living man.

We are not only dead with the Lord Jesus (Col 2:20), but alive with Him (Rom 6:11). So truly am I one with Him that whatever is an object of interest and concern to Him should be of interest and concern to me. It is easy enough to be taken up, even with souls preaching anything in connection with the old man instead of with the new Man. Let us bear in mind, in order to unsparing judgment of the old within, that we are new creations (because of the new nature—NC) in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that as such, our hearts should go out to everything that is precious to our Father and His Beloved Son.



—Wm Kelly (1821-1906)





Note: morality is a natural quality and godliness a spiritual quality. For example, the Decalogue as natural, centering on God’s command to man between that which is of man, not requiring the indwelling of the Spirit of God; and the righteousness of Christ as godliness, centering on God’s command to man of that which is between Himself and man, requiring the Spirit’s indwelling. One can be morally correct but not God-centered. Yet one who is God-centered will be morally correct. —NC


Note: being free from the “dominion” of the old man (Ro 6:14) allows the Spirit to conform us via His “fruit,” which needs no law for control (Gal 5:23), as the Decalogue did; for God now “works” this desire for Him in us (Phl 2:13). —NC

Thanks. I would hope to add to the understanding. Living water represents the water of the word, the gospel. . The cleaning action that works in us or called the washing and renewing. The twelve stones represent all who become born again as lively stones that do make up the spiritual house of God the unseen church.

In one of the parables below . . one of the think not’s.. Jesus revealed that the fathers were looking to the things seen glorying in the temporal.

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Abrahm a word that signifies our unsen God as the father of all nations represented by twelve stones.

Some say we have Peter as access to our Holy Father .

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
 
Oct 8, 2011
1,365
481
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Winfield, Mo.
Thanks. I would hope to add to the understanding. Living water represents the water of the word, the gospel. . The cleaning action that works in us or called the washing and renewing. The twelve stones represent all who become born again as lively stones that do make up the spiritual house of God the unseen church.


Some say we have Peter as access to our Holy Father .
Thanks for the reply and like your comments! God always had a go-between to Himself. Moses was Israel's access and now the last, who "the second Man, the Lord from heaven" (Rom 5:15). Jesus called Peter a rock in reference to his faith, and saving-faith is the primary element upon which He's building (bringing in) His Church.
 
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Jan 18, 2021
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Thanks for the reply and like your comments! God always had a go-between to Himself. Moses was Israel's access and now the last, who "the second Man, the Lord from heaven" (Rom 5:15). Jesus called Peter a rock in reference to his faith, and saving-faith is the primary element upon which He's building (bringing in) His Church.

Hi thanks for the reply. I see that a little differently. Actually the very opposite.

The “think not” verse I offered had to do with, we are not to trust any fleshly infallible interpreter. . Called a daysman, a word that describes a fleshly umpire set between God not seen and mankind seen . . in the end having the approval of both man seen and God not seen. .

The faithless Jews who were commanded to "think not “were in effect having their personal source of faith after the flesh of dead Abraham They saw the fathers as what some call patron saints workers with familiar spirits ( a legion). ..a law of the fathers (men) that some call a apostolic succession(a hierarchy of man ) And not a faith exclusively after our unseen Father who works in mankind as it is written .

Some today have that ideology after Peter the beginning of a line of fathers used falsely a long line of Daysman again that the non-venerable pew sitters must call Pope (another teacher) . . Again a fleshly umpire that settles debates between the unseen things and those seen. The bible say there is none. One is our teaching Holy father not seen

The law of the fathers making mankind a source of eternal faith rather than as it is written Christ’s faith (sola scriptura)

The it is not Peter in the verse in mind. Peter’s name mean stone but he is one of the many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house not seen, the church. Christ unseen is the cornerstone of faith . . the born again Spirit that works within the new creatures. Christians

For some reason most translation turned things upside down giving the illusion that Peter’s flesh revealed the things of God. .Making sinful mankind the key that the gate of hell could never prevail against. Rather than the proper order of inspiration coming down. . . they wrongly accredit it to Peter earthly.

It would be like. . .”Whatsoever Peter shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”. Again they follow after the faithless ,no faith as it is written. Jews who used Abraham flesh as a starting place as well as the end of fiaith and not sola scriptura the true inspiration, others used Peter.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Young’s literal turn’s things of God right side up the right order. .What soever we can bind on earth having been first and foremost loosed gives us “His understanding”. “His doctrines as understanding ” fall from heaven like rain and dew loosed on earth.

Mathew 16:17-19 And Jesus answering said to him, `Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens. `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.' And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

How do we know the key is not Peter corrupted ? Peter was fogiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man jesus. he was awaked to the knowledge "Peter knew he was deceived" he repented. .

That false pride by glorying in his own flesh caused him to fall. He was not hearing the meaning of the revelation, pride blocked the interptation. When jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal it he meant all flesh and blood to include our brother in the Lord, Peter.

The father in heaven gave words to Jesus the Son of man the prophet and chief apostle to rebuke the lying spirit Saran . Satan left .Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man. Jesus delighted to do the will of the Father leaving us a example.

Mathew 16;23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Satan fled not obeying the comandment to get behind a God not seen . Peter became a popular target of how not to be sucessful as a Christians .
 
Jan 18, 2021
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We might be misunderstanding one another, but I don't know why you mentioned an "infallible interpreter" (Moses or Jesus). Thanks!
I mentioned there is none to include Moses and the Son of man Jesus . which of cource includes Popes

One is our infallible good master in heaven, our Father not seen.
 
Oct 8, 2011
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Winfield, Mo.
I mentioned there is none to include Moses and the Son of man Jesus . which of cource includes Popes

One is our infallible good master in heaven, our Father not seen.
It's ok, but I'm still not sure I understand what you mean. All humans (except Christ) is infallible, but I believe Moses was an infallible teacher concerning the Pentateuch.
 
Jan 18, 2021
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Milw. Wisconsin.
It's ok, but I'm still not sure I understand what you mean. All humans (except Christ) is infallible, but I believe Moses was an infallible teacher concerning the Pentateuch.
Christ is the unseen infallible teacher that works in us. Moses who is not the Christ the anointing Holy Spirit could be considered a daysman if the thoughts revealed were of Mosses and not our unseen Holy Father .But even the Son of man, Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen Holy place of faith .

We can only learn of Jesus because the infallible father .His voice is as it is written .

John6:45 It is written in the prophets, (sola scriptura) And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
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