Pets and Sin

quote=Whirlwind;64566]We tried to switch our cat over to a different brand (less expensive) of cat food...

pffft!

She wouldn't eat it. So they told us to mix it in with her favorite food. We did that. She picked out every piece of the less expensive brand and didn't touch that pile. I swear, there was a pile of the "bad stuff" left over.

Now, when I feed her, she makes me show her the bag. It's yellow and has a pic of a cartoon cat on the front. She makes sure that it's the good stuff, or she won't eat it. It's like she can read the bag!

That's her sin, being particular.

But she's also good...the other day I left home and accidentally shut her in the bedroom. She "held it" all day until I got home. When I opened the bedroom door...zooom! She tore off to her kitty litter box. She knew she'd get into trouble for "going" in the bedroom.

:eek:


:confused:[/quote]

Another clear cut case of a pet training it's owner!:p:eek::):D:cool:
 
Jax said:
Having lost my precious 12 yr old dog just 3 days ago, I certainly hope there will be animals in Heaven.
Jesus comes back riding a white horse doesnt He, and the lion shall lay down the lamb?
I think that the instinctive behaviour we see in animals, came because they needed to survivie following the fall of man, the protection they had before was broken and now it was survival of the fitest.
All I know is this, my dog was the sweetest girl, she never did anything ever to hurt anyone, and always forgave me if I got cross with her, she always was waiting for me, always loved me and always wanted to be with me.
I think we could learn a lot from the behaviour of some animals!
Gosh I miss her so.:(
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Sorry for your loss Jax. We had to recently put down one of our babies. She was a 12 year old kitty names Pricess with a personality a mile wide. That is certainly the hardest part of having a pet for a family memeber.
 
I once owned a realy cool Hot-Rod, and I had bought it from the Brother of a friend of mine. Now his brother had some pets, and hooked up with his girlfriend who had even more. And as a result they were going to start a mobil dog grooming business, etc..,

But they had too many pets, ohhh my!!!!!!!!!! And it was cute to watch the kittens, and puppies, and cats and dogs play with eachother!!!!!!!!!!! But they had too many pets, ohhh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So they gave Me a very cute female albino ferret!!!!!!!!!! And she was very playfull, well trained and cute!!!!!!!! But she was Blond in My estimation ( White haired, albino ----so I don't know where I got blond from????????:rolleyes:)

So I called her "Ferret Faucett"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
 
My pet

I have a very lovable Toy Manchester Terrier. I'm very attached to him and he is to me. I hope he lives the 15 or 16 years that the breed is supposed to. But He doesn't seem to be interested in reading the Bible or going to church. I know it maybe something that some of us would like to believe, that our pets will be with us in heaven. Jesus gives us some pretty detailed descriptions of heaven and none mention our pets being with us. I love my dog very much. I know god is watching over him the same as all other animals. But heaven is God's plan for whosoever believes in His son and I truly believe if Jesus walked into the door right now. "Zorro" would not go near Him. And would certainly not be very friendly to Him or have a clue who he was.:)

Also, He hasn't eaten from the tree of knowledge of good and evil as far as I know, although He has eaten my slippers and newspaper. Oh yes, Zorro is still a puppy so he has accidents now and then. By the look on his face and in his eyes when he gets caught, he maybe repenting.:)
 
But...we have to go to church because we ate of the fruit; we know the difference between good and evil.

Our animals haven't eaten of that fruit, right?

So...because we sinned against God and continue to sin, we need to earn our spot in heaven. If the animals don't know the difference between good and evil and are incapable of sin, then wouldn't their spots be guaranteed just by not being human?

I'm just wondering. This is the kind of stuff I think about when I sit and play with my pets.

Or are they just blanks. Lifeforms filled with nothing. My cat gets happy before she eats and tears around the house practically doing cartwheels...is that just a slug? Animated tissue? When she dies, will she just wink out of existence like a candleflame?

She's God's creation. Let His will be done. But I sure hope I get to see my pets in heaven.:eek:
 
Whirlwind said:
But...we have to go to church because we ate of the fruit; we know the difference between good and evil.

Our animals haven't eaten of that fruit, right?

So...because we sinned against God and continue to sin, we need to earn our spot in heaven.
:eek:
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Animals feel the sting of death and sickness because man who had dominion over them sinned and the whole earth came under a curse. I would imagine it will go with man anywhere he goes. You won't be able to go into space and escape sin and death.

No one can earn a place in heaven, none is worthy. If we could have done it Jesus would not have had to pay our price on the cross. We are saved by grace which is unmerited favor from God thru faith which is absolute trust in Him and not of ourselves.
 
No disrespect intended for those who were close to and have lost a pet. I have been a pet owner for quite some time. I enjoy the company of the dogs when they follow me around. They like to sleep in bed. They want to go riding in the car. At the end of the day, however, it is just an animal to me. As far as I am concerned, yes they are God's creatures and I won't ABUSE them, but I cannot believe that they have a soul or require salvation nor do I treat them as if they were human. I don't expect to see my specific dogs in Heaven waiting for me. If I do, great. If not, no loss to me there is much more to celebrate. I don't remember reading about God breathing into the animals after they were made from the dust of the earth. To each their own, I suppose. I don't believe this belief system of mine makes me any less of a good-hearted man. I am simply longing for the lost souls of the world to come to Christ and focusing on whether or not I will see them in Heaven, not Fido. One of the great things about Heaven is that it will be a surprise to all of us.
 
And no disrespect again, but if we believe our pets are going to Heaven, must we also believe that every living organism under the sun will be there as well? So if I were to go hunting and kill a deer, I will be with that deer in Heaven? The cows and chickens we eat, all in Heaven? Not trying to be a jerk here....but do we feel as strongly about the cow and the chicken and the shark? Or just about our pets? What about flowers? Technically alive...
 
In one sense of the word they do have a soul:
Num 31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay,soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

But that is not to say they need be saved as all creation will be restored at His coming.
 
Whirlwind said:
This one has been on my mind a lot lately...

I've heard it said that animals don't know sin, because they didn't partake in the fruit of the knowledge between good and evil.

[...but last night, my cat tried to crawl into my turtle's tank; she knows this is wrong because I tell her again and again]

I've also heard that not all animals go to heaven. Does this mean that I won't see my cat or my turtle there? I've heard there's a separate heaven for some animals.

My cat is adopted, because her last owner didn't want her anymore. She kept on beating up the other cats, so I took her in. She's been a little angel. BUT...she knows that recently I got a pet turtle; she seems jealous, and I constantly have to watch her to keep her out of the turtle's tank.

If I, as a human, was jealous and tried to kill something...I'd be sinning. But if my cat does this, is the cat automatically forgiven?

Just pet questions I had in mind.

Thanks for any responses to help me figure this out.

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My wife and I have two indoor cats, one indoor-outdoor cat, ages of 16, 8, 6, and we feed several other outdoor cats meandering around our back door. Humans and animals are a living "soul" according to scripture, everyone has the same breath of life in them, not something separated from themselves.

Martin Luther put it best, That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals—in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish.—Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum (Assertion of all the articles of M. Luther condemned by the latest Bull of Leo X), article 27, Weimar edition of Luther's Works, vol. 7, pp. 131, 132 (a point-by-point exposition of his position, written Dec. 1, 1520, in response to requests for a fuller treatment than that given in his Adversus execrabilem Antichristi Bullam, and Wider die Bulle des Endchrists).

 WILLIAM TYNDALE (1484-1536), English Bible translator and martyr.


In Britain William Tyndale, translator of the Bible into English--


“And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?”—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181.
Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innate immortality:

“The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.”—lbid., p. 180. End Quote




As it has been stated, pets cannot reason, yet "we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:22.

There will be a time, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lied down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them," Isaiah 11:6. We will not eat them! The book of Daniel gives us a very clear indication of diet. Chapter two.

Quote:

“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together: and a little child shall lead them.” Isa. 11:6.

Here is a picture of life in the new earth. The Spirit of God unites the elements that are now most discordant, so that they dwell together there as brethren. Ferocity and cunning disappear, and love and sympathy take their place.

… What! lions and wolves in the new earth, the saints’ eternal inheritance? Yes, most certainly, for when the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem, “the first dominion” shall be restored; and the first dominion was over “all sheep oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; the fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.” Psa. 8:6-8; Gen. 1:26-28. The kingdom and dominion which God will give to His people will be very real,—as real as was the original kingdom of David, and infinitely more glorious and blessed, for it will be Eden restored. ... “A little child shall lead them; . . . . they shall not hurt nor destroy.” Isa. 11: 6, 9.
On the plains, in the desert, among the cliffs of the mountains, along winding rivers and silvery lakes, swinging from lofty tree-tops, burrowing in the ground, creeping through the grass, and hiding ‘neath the leaves, we find creatures, living creatures, so many and so wonderful that we are led to exclaim, “O Lord, how manifold (many) are Thy works! In wisdom hast Thou made them all!” Ps. 104: 24.

End Quote

John
 
Boanerges said:
Animals feel the sting of death and sickness because man who had dominion over them sinned and the whole earth came under a curse. I would imagine it will go with man anywhere he goes. You won't be able to go into space and escape sin and death.

No one can earn a place in heaven, none is worthy. If we could have done it Jesus would not have had to pay our price on the cross. We are saved by grace which is unmerited favor from God thru faith which is absolute trust in Him and not of ourselves.
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I'm in agreement, the whole earth has come under the curse, included are animals. God is love, therefore animals would only love and not be ferocious if not infected by the sin problem.

John
 
If You have ever heard "Bungle in the Jungle," by Jethro Tull, I think You could say without a doubt, we Humans are more animal than the animals are!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Of cource, for those of Us who are saved, we are not supposed to behave like bad animals, as the unsaved can quite easily do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
In addition, once we all stand before the White Throne Judgement ----when God will have to explain to Us who are saved-----Just how badly we did in certain areas of our salvation-----to show Us where we grew, and did not grow, in Character------and what are our rewards, as concerns Our Character and Obedience, while we were here ------God will then "Wipe away all tears."------And thus, when we have learned how poorly we performed, as well as how well we did--------are not all of our bad memories going to be wiped away??????????? So therefore if there are animals in Heaven, we would not remember all the Chickens we had eaten, etc.., to feel bad about it!!!!!!!!!!! ----and even if we did remember, were the Chickens not down here serving their physical duties, by being food for Us, while here on earth??????????

So your questions, were very interesting conceptualy, and all ---but unfortunately, every time we think we have nailed down some proof in life, others can come along with more questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the only answers we can therefore stand firm on, are the ones we know are right ----no matter what anyone says!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But the question of "if there are animals in heaven," I don't think we can know that there are not????? And I believe there will be animals in heaven, but I don't know for sure????????????
 
I would name them delicious, delectable, scrumptious and so on- each would be fondly remembered.
 
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