Have any of you experienced a time where your pastor/priest was presenting a message on Sunday and made some political comments with which you disagreed?
Politics In The Church Liturgy/service
- Thread starter LysanderShapiro
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Was said message "unbiblical" or at least not doctrinally sound? Interestingly enough when it comes to worldly politics, it's hard to say that as Christians we are justified by any party or movement. The older I get the more I realize the facade of the "left-right paradigm" we have in the USA. One just moves faster at destroying this country than the other-that's the only real difference.
EXAMPLE: Abortion is not a 'conservative' issue; it is an issue that affects the entire human population. I think I say a statistic from the WHO or someone of the like that state there were over 500 Million abortions performed worldwide from 1950-2010. (Or it could have been a lesser time period-will attempt to fond it again) In the USA we have a culture that automatically combines "Christian" with "Conservative" which for the most part may be true-it is not a definite. It used to be "Christian & Democrat". Now without getting into the eugenicist agenda endgame-the fact of the matter is that both sides of the aisle have allowed abortion to be legal because we cannot regulate morality of the 'lost world' in a non-Christian environment.
So we get tied up in worldly agendas and forget the heavenly agenda. I am getting to the point where the only time I want to worry about politicians themselves is on voting day in hopes of picking the lesser of two evils as my 'patriotic citizen duty'. I am more concerned with the legislation being passed in our current government that allows the military to 'react to civil disturbances within the USA without presidential or congressional approval.'
Interestingly enough, the Bible teaches "civil disobedience" to laws that affect our faith: Daniel and the lion's den, Queen Esther going to the Kings court, Jesus teaching in the temple....
Esther 4:16
Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.
I guess what I am getting at is if your Pastor is off his rocker and fallen off the scriptural train-maybe a non-violent protest is in order. But first see what he says one on one when confronted. If it is not biblical, gather together 2 or more and approach, if the issue doesn't get resolved, the Church body needs to get together and come together as one accord on the matter-else the danger of a split ('schism') in the body will be present.
Now if the Pastor is straight up wrong-at minimum a public apology would removal from office dependent upon severity.
Our Pastor solves this problem by stating that the "church" is responsible for making sure doctrine is correct-not the preacher...AND, the pulpit is not to be used as a "whipping post".
That all being said-after I got saved-I spent a better part of 2 years trying to find a church that actually taught Bible doctrine-not 'denomination doctrine'. So I ran the gambit of churches that preached both of biblical and worldly things for which I did not agree. Looking back through the 'hindsight window'; some of that was due to my political views at the time. Frankly, all we can hope to do is influence politicians with the Gospel to make the right choices-but if we as the 'body of Christ' can't agree on what is "right-eous" How in this world do we think that we will influence legislation back to preserving the freedoms granted by God? Especially when the definition of "freedom" so longer what it used to be.....
EXAMPLE: Abortion is not a 'conservative' issue; it is an issue that affects the entire human population. I think I say a statistic from the WHO or someone of the like that state there were over 500 Million abortions performed worldwide from 1950-2010. (Or it could have been a lesser time period-will attempt to fond it again) In the USA we have a culture that automatically combines "Christian" with "Conservative" which for the most part may be true-it is not a definite. It used to be "Christian & Democrat". Now without getting into the eugenicist agenda endgame-the fact of the matter is that both sides of the aisle have allowed abortion to be legal because we cannot regulate morality of the 'lost world' in a non-Christian environment.
So we get tied up in worldly agendas and forget the heavenly agenda. I am getting to the point where the only time I want to worry about politicians themselves is on voting day in hopes of picking the lesser of two evils as my 'patriotic citizen duty'. I am more concerned with the legislation being passed in our current government that allows the military to 'react to civil disturbances within the USA without presidential or congressional approval.'
Interestingly enough, the Bible teaches "civil disobedience" to laws that affect our faith: Daniel and the lion's den, Queen Esther going to the Kings court, Jesus teaching in the temple....
Esther 4:16
Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.
I guess what I am getting at is if your Pastor is off his rocker and fallen off the scriptural train-maybe a non-violent protest is in order. But first see what he says one on one when confronted. If it is not biblical, gather together 2 or more and approach, if the issue doesn't get resolved, the Church body needs to get together and come together as one accord on the matter-else the danger of a split ('schism') in the body will be present.
Now if the Pastor is straight up wrong-at minimum a public apology would removal from office dependent upon severity.
Our Pastor solves this problem by stating that the "church" is responsible for making sure doctrine is correct-not the preacher...AND, the pulpit is not to be used as a "whipping post".
That all being said-after I got saved-I spent a better part of 2 years trying to find a church that actually taught Bible doctrine-not 'denomination doctrine'. So I ran the gambit of churches that preached both of biblical and worldly things for which I did not agree. Looking back through the 'hindsight window'; some of that was due to my political views at the time. Frankly, all we can hope to do is influence politicians with the Gospel to make the right choices-but if we as the 'body of Christ' can't agree on what is "right-eous" How in this world do we think that we will influence legislation back to preserving the freedoms granted by God? Especially when the definition of "freedom" so longer what it used to be.....
His message was directed toward greed, and while the religious/spiritual message was right, he made a few side comments that were politically-driven that I disagree with. He didn't make any statements that are blatantly against God like "abortion is OK" -- it was mostly an economic/free market statement. The priest didn't commit any sort of liturgical abuse from what I saw. If it was that bad, I'd have to confront him on that and possibly approach the archbishop of DC. It's not that bad.
This isn't really so much a question of "has your priest fallen off his wagon?" but more of did he ever make one little statement and while it shouldn't have stuck out like a sore thumb, it still did and distracted you from the mass?
I take freedom extremely seriously. Politically speaking, my belief is that the mass majority of politicians have an incentive that counters our God-given freedom. You're definitely right that the definition of "freedom" has been perverted to a point where we aren't really free anymore--I mean this on a legal level--not a spiritual level.
I am convinced that the coming persecusion of the church will be "rooted" in Political Correctness.
PC says that the church will not preach against homexuality or abortion or adultry or drug abuse. The man in the pulpit can not condeam the acts of sinners and use words that will hurt there feelings.
It is coming my friends and in some cases is already here. Pastors in Europe and Canada have been jailed for simply preaching what the Scriptures say about homosexuality.
And that is the danger. When preachers and bishops are unable, by law to challenge those things which are against GOD"S LAW, Satan can convince people that all ideas are equal, then he can convince them that anyone who promotes anything that is "exclusive" or "better" is evil and a menace to society. THerein lies where the persecution will come from. In that way, Satan can destroy our willingness to accept that there may be some ideas and beliefs that really ARE better than others - because they are true and wholesome and beneficial.
Of course, Satan's real goal is to convince men that there are MANY roads to heaven. So, if he can make us unwilling to suggest that one way is better than another way - for instance, capitalism is better than collectivism, democracy is better than theocracy, life is better than death, or heterosexuality is better than homosexuality - then he can set the stage for prosecuting Christians for claiming that Christianity is the better way because it is the ONLY way to heaven.
By using the charge of "hate speech," which is the legal terminology for "political correctness," Satan can inspire the prosecution of Christians as "enemies of humanity," as Nero called them. In doing so, he hopes to silence the voices that proclaim that not only is Christianity a better way, it's the ONLY possible way for God to save man.
This wasn't a statement of political correctness--especially when what God teaches IS considered to be politically incorrect. I'm positive what I believe offends lots of people--that's not my concern.
I guess to make it a bit more clear for what I'm getting at, the priest presenting the liturgy made a statement regarding economics, the rich, and why other countries hate us. Paraphrasing, he said, "When the rich get rich, they hoard it rather than helping those in need." He went on, "Because this country is one that has such a foreground priority of consumerism, this is why other countries don't like us."
I disagree with him. Often times, the rich don't hoard their money--one in many might, but most invest it somehow. Granted, this doesn't mean their reasoning behind it isn't intended for self-interest, but investment does create capital and grow employment which is good. He seemed to demonize something and categorize it very narrowly.
The other statement about "why other countries don't like us," is something I won't get too deep into, but I think it's more about interventionism rather than consumerism.
This is not so much a concern of political correctness or even necessarily teaching against what God has taught us, but rather just little things that you've heard in church, outside of faith, that makes you sort of scratch your head in a bad way.
I do agree with you though that the more people step on religion and how what is often expressed through it because it offends them, the more they are trying to revoke freedom. Freedom of religion was not granted to us by any government or dead politicians of yesteryears--it came from our heavenly father.