Praying for a Grumbling America

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bobinfaith

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Hello brothers and sisters;

Saturday, March 4 we are attending a prayer fellowship and I was asked to pray for America. I had a conversation with a pastor friend of mine and we discussed the most pressing things going on in the United States.

In our conversation we touched on how many people in America who immigrated here brought their values with them and overall are grateful to be here. One thing they noticed that stands out is how Americans grumble a lot.

My friend and I both agreed because America is a growing developed country, many Americans get filled with a superiority mindset and a feeling of entitlement. This may be what sparks Americans to complain about everything, and I mean everything. So much that I have witnessed this attitude of Americans while traveling to other countries for personal or a missionary.

We then honed in on how Christians are aware of the problems in the United States and we need to pray over a grumbling America, but, this has also infiltrated in the Church as well.

We then touched on Paul who prayed for Rome. This great city was unpopular amongst the Jews and Christians because of their stronghold, and persecution under Nero. Paul believed in fervent prayer for Rome and this empowered the Church who prayed for them.

Romans 1:8-17, 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you 10 always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you— 12 that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith." - ESV

How much more prosperous can the Church become when we pray for countries on all four corners of the earth, beside America?

I would love to get your thoughts.

God bless you, brothers and sisters and your families.
 
? I thought it was the English that had a reputation for grumbling or as we call it, whinging.
Especially when they immigrate to NZ and find out that NZ isn't exactly paradise on earth. lol.
NZers call them 'whinging poms'.
Poms with more money than sense then expect everything to be catering to them and the worst is when they leave a place a mess after they have visited, thinking they can camp wherever they like and leave their rubbish all over the place. ?!

Americans don't visit as much but they tend to be appreciative about what we have here. They know it is going to be different. If they like it they stay, and the very wealthy Americans like that it is small and not like America which is a vast continent that spans two hemispheres (not just the United States part!) . Of course it is very far away across the Pacific ocean and few make the trek.

Jesus said to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth...so its not like he's saying pray only for your own nation. He came as a light to the Gentiles, meaning everyone who isn't a Jew or Israelite. Unless you are Jewish or Israeli that includes you and me...wherever we are in the world!
 
Comparison and expectations the way we want things when we don’t work for them is rife here too Bob.
I’m sometimes guilty of this lol
Don’t know what the answer is although I suspect it starts with instilling values into ourselves, our families and communities first.
What’s good for us should first start within through Gods Word.
If we don’t then We begin to look further afield and compare ourselves to other people or nations and moan about how we don’t have them. Or how they have been taken away from us…or it’s a right.

Once we have our selves, our communities and families in order then we would naturally work to extend our values out of love and not out of envy or entitlement or any other destructive emotion or belief.

Edit: of course, the culture today tries to instill its belief in us that we deserve the best without doing anything. Advertisements don’t help And neither do buy now pay later schemes. When people don’t work for what they have worked hard for they don’t tend to appreciate the things they have as much.
 
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We are a moaning world. Instead of appreciating whatever God is doing for us we dwell on what we would like to be happening. We all love ourselves to much. Yes I am guilty.

Perhaps we do not keep our eyes on Jesus enough. The Lord walked in the midst of a sinful world. Yet He had no sin in Him. That alone must have been extremely painful.

Jesus prayed a lot , do we pray enough, I know i do not.
When we think how willingly The Son of God left heaven and suffered such agony, even an excruciating death, so that we could be forgiven and saved I think What Love.

Meditating on the life of Jesus can help us such a lot. But we all mean instead. Let us keep our eyes on The Lord. He will get us all through this mess.
 
I think complaining/grumbling is learned behavior taught as children. Many fight for control over things like toys, food and apparel, whining when not received. As adults we understand what we cant control. Prices, taxes, underemployment, ailments, pollution, etc. We could all set a better example of how to be appreciative. My mother was a WW2 survivor, and my father was born during the great depression. They taught us to be thankful for a clean safe place to live, any food we had, and all household items. As a child I was spanked when I asked for/wanted more; it turned me into quite a minimalist. We were taught to pray in appreciation, thankfulness, and for others before we prayed for ourselves. I was in college before I came to the world realization my parents were wealthy, because we were not raised to believe such things. So yes, I see how the American culture grumbles in excess, including myself when I am in pain. Echoes of what family members could have said remain like ghosts inside me. I am alive and breathing, fed, housed, and have nothing to complain about. My father would have said get over it, and get back to work. He would have said Americans have become weak. Maybe we are, forgetting our strength comes from God.
 
We all want agreement, as long as it is agreeing with what we believe. We are less comfortable with not 'correcting' our brothers.

Consider all the issues we have agreed not to talk about here. Under the fig-leaf of boldly standing for "THE TRUTH" our conversation seeks to each prove himself right. We collectively and individually need to exhibit much greater humility. Until we do we apparently cannot be trusted to approach theses issues in Christian fellowship.

But, it is easier to get people concerned/angry and motivated than joyous and motivated. As Christians, we often find 'fire and brimstone' preaching more moving that messages of praise, thanksgiving, and fellowship within and between congregations.

A lot of this is fostered by the us vs them positions in politics where it is much more important to get the 'us' in power and making decisions than it is to have straight forward consideration of issues. So the leadership, particularly political leadership highlights whatever follies it can in the opposition.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello brothers and sisters;

Saturday, March 4 we are attending a prayer fellowship and I was asked to pray for America. I had a conversation with a pastor friend of mine and we discussed the most pressing things going on in the United States.

In our conversation we touched on how many people in America who immigrated here brought their values with them and overall are grateful to be here. One thing they noticed that stands out is how Americans grumble a lot.

My friend and I both agreed because America is a growing developed country, many Americans get filled with a superiority mindset and a feeling of entitlement. This may be what sparks Americans to complain about everything, and I mean everything. So much that I have witnessed this attitude of Americans while traveling to other countries for personal or a missionary.

We then honed in on how Christians are aware of the problems in the United States and we need to pray over a grumbling America, but, this has also infiltrated in the Church as well.

We then touched on Paul who prayed for Rome. This great city was unpopular amongst the Jews and Christians because of their stronghold, and persecution under Nero. Paul believed in fervent prayer for Rome and this empowered the Church who prayed for them.

Romans 1:8-17, 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I mention you 10 always in my prayers, asking that somehow by God's will I may now at last succeed in coming to you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you— 12 that is, that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith, both yours and mine. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I have often intended to come to you (but thus far have been prevented), in order that I may reap some harvest among you as well as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith." - ESV

How much more prosperous can the Church become when we pray for countries on all four corners of the earth, beside America?

I would love to get your thoughts.

God bless you, brothers and sisters and your families.
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Good thread.

It seems to me that we live in an AGEING society. We have killed off about 75 million indivudals in the last 30 years from abortion which is exactly why S/S will be broke in 2035. Those 75 million would be paying Social Security taxes are dead!!!!

Ageing people tend to complain because they remember what it used to be like in the Good Old Days and they think that it was better then than now. They also tend to forget the bad like OUTHOUSES, and cars with NO A/C and TV'S with 3 Channels, and NO INTERNET, and PHONE BOOTHS at every corner.

We REMEMBER when everyone knew EVERYONE in the block where we lived. Now.....most of the people we don't even speak English.

We REMEMBER when a doctor would come and see you at home when you were sick. Now you can not even see a doctor without an appointment made 2 weeks in advance.

We REMEMBER when a new car cost $1000 dollars. Now that will only buy 4 tires.

We REMEMBER when TV was only Black and White and now you can get TV on a telephone.

WE REMEMBER when the President looked you in the eye and told the truth, now, he will not even look at you.

We get old, we are not working.....so we watch TV with 250 channels and complain.
 
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I just get on with it.
Things aren't always perfect, so I work or do something to make them so, rather than complain about it.

The thing is about taking responsibility for something if you don't like the situation, you look for a solution. It's a skill to problem solve and act on it. That is why the Books of Acts is called that, not the Book of Complaints.

As Christians we can go direct to the Maker, and ask for his power to do the things we can't do on our own. Then He provides us with inspiration to act. If you haven't learned this yet, you need to go deeper in prayer, not just talking to Him, but listening to what He has to say to YOU.
 
Via dolarossa said:
Comparison and expectations the way we want things when we don’t work for them is rife here too Bob.
I’m sometimes guilty of this lol
Don’t know what the answer is although I suspect it starts with instilling values into ourselves, our families and communities first.
What’s good for us should first start within through Gods Word.
If we don’t then We begin to look further afield and compare ourselves to other people or nations and moan about how we don’t have them. Or how they have been taken away from us…or it’s a right.

Once we have our selves, our communities and families in order then we would naturally work to extend our values out of love and not out of envy or entitlement or any other destructive emotion or belief.

Edit: of course, the culture today tries to instill its belief in us that we deserve the best without doing anything. Advertisements don’t help And neither do buy now pay later schemes. When people don’t work for what they have worked hard for they don’t tend to appreciate the things they have as much.
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Regarding the buy now and pay later...or is it after-pay or hire purchase? I think some items are very expensive to pay for all upfront, things like fridges, washing machine, and not to mention a house! Often those things we need don't even come with the rental. I can understand, maybe you can use the laundromat if its nearby and you don't have a washing machine. But a fridge?
How do people live without a fridge? To keep their food fresh and cool? In the olden days, they had a meat safe and a cellar or something like a storehouse but often food would go off unless eaten straight away or stored/preserved properly and people would get sick from eating off food with bacteria poisoning.

As for a house, most people that can't afford to buy a house will rent. If you are going to pay a mortgage, it is something you will pay off until you die, though some can pool together to pay it off within 5 years if you work around the clock. However most peoples wages are not high enough for that. But we all need shelter. But this is why we have a lot of homeless people because they simply cannot afford to buy a house, and they can't really rent one either. And they can't just build one anywhere. You have to own some land, but land is already taken in many places, you can't just have it for free like in the olden days when some govts were literally giving away land, often by ballot. see the land grabs in the 'wild west' of America for that one!

They would literally race for a stick in the ground to own the land. These days, people buy or sell, and they many don't pass down their land to the next generation. But in the olden days, who ever heard of such an absurd thing as buying land. But these days, if you are rich, you can. The rich don't ALWAYS work hard for what they have, some get rich by sheer luck. Also the poor aren't always lazy. That is a stereotype. Poor people work even harder than many rich people just to keep their heads above water.
 
Siloam said:
We all want agreement, as long as it is agreeing with what we believe. We are less comfortable with not 'correcting' our brothers.

Consider all the issues we have agreed not to talk about here. Under the fig-leaf of boldly standing for "THE TRUTH" our conversation seeks to each prove himself right. We collectively and individually need to exhibit much greater humility. Until we do we apparently cannot be trusted to approach theses issues in Christian fellowship.

But, it is easier to get people concerned/angry and motivated than joyous and motivated. As Christians, we often find 'fire and brimstone' preaching more moving that messages of praise, thanksgiving, and fellowship within and between congregations.

A lot of this is fostered by the us vs them positions in politics where it is much more important to get the 'us' in power and making decisions than it is to have straight forward consideration of issues. So the leadership, particularly political leadership highlights whatever follies it can in the opposition.
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A lot of cities (and even my own) have 'pride' as their value, not humility.
God hates pride.

In many schools it's taught you need to be proud of your school, or your house. Or your sports team. Children are taught to make their parents proud.
In politics this is fostered too in political parties who each claim that when they are in power, they will fix everything, make their nations 'great' or 'put the nation on the world's stage'. When countries go to war, they fight over land but also their 'pride' or prestige. Everyone wants to be number 1. People even divide the world into 'First world' and 'Second World' and Third world' nations. Of course the third world nations probably don't even know or care where they come in the rankings! They are too busy trying to put food on the table!
People in the so called 'first world' then complain if they think standards are slipping. They want to be on top!

Well hold on isn't God above us all?
 
Lanolin said:
Regarding the buy now and pay later...or is it after-pay or hire purchase? I think some items are very expensive to pay for all upfront, things like fridges, washing machine, and not to mention a house! Often those things we need don't even come with the rental. I can understand, maybe you can use the laundromat if its nearby and you don't have a washing machine. But a fridge?
How do people live without a fridge? To keep their food fresh and cool? In the olden days, they had a meat safe and a cellar or something like a storehouse but often food would go off unless eaten straight away or stored/preserved properly and people would get sick from eating off food with bacteria poisoning.

As for a house, most people that can't afford to buy a house will rent. If you are going to pay a mortgage, it is something you will pay off until you die, though some can pool together to pay it off within 5 years if you work around the clock. However most peoples wages are not high enough for that. But we all need shelter. But this is why we have a lot of homeless people because they simply cannot afford to buy a house, and they can't really rent one either. And they can't just build one anywhere. You have to own some land, but land is already taken in many places, you can't just have it for free like in the olden days when some govts were literally giving away land, often by ballot. see the land grabs in the 'wild west' of America for that one!

They would literally race for a stick in the ground to own the land. These days, people buy or sell, and they many don't pass down their land to the next generation. But in the olden days, who ever heard of such an absurd thing as buying land. But these days, if you are rich, you can. The rich don't ALWAYS work hard for what they have, some get rich by sheer luck. Also the poor aren't always lazy. That is a stereotype. Poor people work even harder than many rich people just to keep their heads above water.
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Yes good Point lanolin. Buy now pay later in regard to the things we need but can't afford is a good way of helping us when where down on our luck. Credit cards are there for emergencies but some people don't tend to use them as a crutch but out of addiction. They may have a perfectly good sofa, one they can use until they save enough money to buy a new one but they instead but buy one and pay later because the scheme is available. Ive done this, and realised just how easy it is to slip into debt and debt always has interest and interest piles up and its a trap that we sometimes find difficult to get out of.
 
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The rich don't ALWAYS work hard for what they have, some get rich by sheer luck. Also the poor aren't always lazy. That is a stereotype. Poor people work even harder than many rich people just to keep their heads above water.
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Another good points Lanolin

Some of the ancestors of ultra wealthy who did not seem to work hard for their wealth, or they become greedy and involved in criminal activity to acquire it seem to get a free pass... yeh thats not fair in my eyes. I despise that.
Like what Job said in 21;7>Why do the wicked live on, growing old and increasing in power? it makes me envious too because I sometimes don't see any point in living a christian life when these evil people have it so good here now especially as they seem to thrive.. that to me is a huge beef I have with God especially as I feel stuck. I'm Still working that out. But I have no problem with those who work to earn their billions lawfully, who provide a service to humanity(except drug dealers and other criminality). But then I look at my sister who is poor as church mouse and think, why is she so darn happy? She has little to be happy for. she works at a factory 50 hours a week And yes she works so hard and she enjoys it yet lives in a poor town with little opportunities in a council house. I don't feel as blessed as her even though I am making more money and live in a wealthy area with no crime. it makes me wonder what I am doing wrong but thats another story for another time...
 
There is concern about things (can I afford a car) and there is concern about conditions (I feel I do not have opportunities).

Often there is concern about the state of others (they do not believe as I do, or my condition is their fault).

Much dissatisfaction is a choice.

Although I have usually been fortunate enough for economic security, it did not start that way, and there were times when medical concerns cause me to restart or greatly adjust my plans for the financial plans.

Unexpected early termination of employment coupled with expensive medical requirements can really poke holes in ones expectations.

I have found that having a supportive life partner (my wife) kept me from giving up. Spending time volunteering in various ways helped my understand that my problems were not unique, nor particularly catastrophic.

When life itself seems against you remember: 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16  Rejoice always;
17  pray without ceasing;
18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
 
Lanolin said:
A lot of cities (and even my own) have 'pride' as their value, not humility.
God hates pride.
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There two opposite kinds of pride.

The kind that goes before destruction is the kind that demands that other people value you above others. Proverbs makes it clear as it couples this pride with a haughty spirit.

But there is another kind of pride that becomes an inner standard for the self to measure against. This is the kind of pride that answers temptation with the thought that the kind of person the Lord has made does not act thus. This kind of pride is a guard rail for the soul.
 
Siloam said:
There two opposite kinds of pride.

The kind that goes before destruction is the kind that demands that other people value you above others. Proverbs makes it clear as it couples this pride with a haughty spirit.

But there is another kind of pride that becomes an inner standard for the self to measure against. This is the kind of pride that answers temptation with the thought that the kind of person the Lord has made does not act thus. This kind of pride is a guard rail for the soul.
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I don't see its any distinction in the Bible.

The self is not God. The Holy Spirit is never prideful. The spirit does not do things for own glory and never speaks of itself but illuminates the glory of God. That's why its the Holy Spirit and not the Haughty Spirit.

There is a definite war going on between flesh and spirit as well.
 
I used to be very unhappy and dissatisfied too when I saw others have more or do things I could not do (or not yet learned) . I think its a natural or inevitable thing in siblings to be a little jealous of each other since they may have the same parents and expect to be treated the same.

However we must overcome this. It goes back to Cain and Abel doesn't it.

One book I read that was very helpful for most things about 'Sibling Rivalry' I think it was called 'How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk'.

Unforunately we do live and work in environments that are very hierarchical and not everyone can adjust to this. Also people are often divided in classes, rich, poor etc. In schools at both ends of the scale, it seems the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. People try to level things out but then end up mediocre. So am not sure what the solution is.

I am very much a middle child - always missed out on things, or got stuck! Often the peacemaker, but also the piggy in the middle, or the 'middleman' that gets cut out.
 
Lanolin said:
I don't see its any distinction in the Bible.

The self is not God. The Holy Spirit is never prideful. The spirit does not do things for own glory and never speaks of itself but illuminates the glory of God. That's why its the Holy Spirit and not the Haughty Spirit.

There is a definite war going on between flesh and spirit as well.
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Always has been a war going on, and there always will be as the sin nature never goes away.

Read Romans 7.
 
Unforunately we do live and work in environments that are very hierarchical and not everyone can adjust to this
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No one would say they enjoy being at the bottom of a pecking order, I was Middle child like you always trying to keep the peace, and being piggie in the middle with no power to effect anything but that.

Maybe we should become diplomats!

But either way I think we do need hierarchies as God intended this for us and even though we now have man made one’s with bullying going on He never said we needed to put up with it we still need to speak the truth in love or leave and fight against a toxic culture or a caste system.
 
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