Precedent Faith

[netchaplain]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved. It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God. Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Then you find you have more concern for the Word of God and for being with other Christians. You’re reading and studying it as much as you can. Then comes the times of trials and temptations God sends to strengthen your faith by exercising it in trusting Him to “work” everything out for your “good” (Ro 8:28).

It is as you unceasingly grow in the Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15), that you will find your craft of life taking you onward and upward via the trials and temptations that continue to “increase” the strength and vitality of your “faith” (Luk 17:5). As you continue to “endure” the “hardness” of the on-and-off testing of your faith (2Ti 2:3), you see yourself in the most important light; that of being “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

 

[2404]

A good read.
And in praying for and working for other's salvation may be an act/commission for our personal benefit, as much as anything, since we don't know.
Are we on the same page?

 

[netchaplain]

A good read.
And in praying for and working for other's salvation may be an act/commission for our personal benefit, as much as anything, since we don't know.
Are we on the same page?

Yes, we are to attempt to reach others as much as possible for the fact that we can't know for certain about salvation for others, just for ourselves.

 

[netchaplain]

It’s my understanding that individuals must decide for themselves to choose to be right with God. Can you imagine how many more would be saved if God caused everyone who was prayed for to be saved? I believe once one desires God enough to choose Him, He causes them to come to salvation; and He also causes them to “desire and perform of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).

 

[2404]

"Desire God enough to chose Him"
I agree conditionally. But we know that no man 'really' seeks God it is God calling man. True many seek God but it is a God of their imagination, even with sign following because gifts and calling are without repentance.
After the fall in the garden God came looking for Adam not vice-versa, because Adam was now in a failed state.
Though God would that none should perish yet how can a man yield except there is something in him to yield with?
True there is a provision (the foolish virgins) that in the course of life have the desire to be right with God and move in that direction as much as they are able.
God will honor that at the judgement.
IMO

 

[netchaplain]

I agree conditionally. But we know that no man 'really' seeks God it is God calling man.

Hi, and appreciate your input! Though, it's my understanding that man after desiring to be right with God is when God calls him. Otherwise we have to assume that God does not call or approach all people. It has to be individuals that desire God, then He calls that individual, for He is not a respecter of persons (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17).

 

[forgiven61]

Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—

not sure i agree all the way with this i hold to whosoever yes God knows who will and wont but there is hope as long as the mind is clear and you have breath hope till the end. i hold to free will God gives us a choice -i rejected him for years.. till he got my attention

 

[netchaplain]

not sure i agree all the way with this i hold to whosoever yes God knows who will and wont but there is hope as long as the mind is clear and you have breath hope till the end. i hold to free will God gives us a choice -i rejected him for years.. till he got my attention

Those who should be saved will be saved, and this cannot be interrupted. God of course in His omniscience knows all who are going to choose to be right with Him, even before creation; hence the Book of Life which contains all the names of those who will be saved.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Hi, and appreciate your input! Though, it's my understanding that man after desiring to be right with God is when God calls him. Otherwise we have to assume that God does not call or approach all people. It has to be individuals that desire God, then He calls that individual, for He is not a respecter of persons (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17).

You have perfectly described FREE WILL. It pleases God to have us WANT HIM / to BE RIGHT with HIM. It brings Him great delight.
I wish people would let God be God... and accept that fore-knowledge and pre-destination are NOT at war with each other but rather both are valid truths that play out for certain events.

I think of this for an example of pre-destination. Yet God brilliantly allows for us to always have choice. I do not understand why some people have a difficult time with this.

14 For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this?” Esther 4:14

Those who should be saved will be saved, and this cannot be interrupted. God of course in His omniscience knows all who are going to choose to be right with Him, even before creation; hence the Book of Life which contains all the names of those who will be saved.

Amen!!!

 

[forgiven61]

t has to be individuals that desire God, then He calls that individual, for He is not a respecter of persons

understand i respect your point and would be the first to say you have this right as its a matter of interpretation. i can say the night i got saved i was not seeking him. his Holy spirit was drawing me .i did not like the evangelist or what he stood for. i was in darkness he was in the Light. granted this could be a case of i crossed the fence and you say you jumped over the fence. in discussions of disagreements it often goes south. instead of discussing it. so at this point on this part i disagree . i have seen your post many times in different areas of the net , my remark is keep on posting. just my 2 cents if you want to shed more light iam will to read it as i might be missing a point

 

[netchaplain]

You have perfectly described FREE WILL. It pleases God to have us WANT HIM / to BE RIGHT with HIM. It brings Him great delight.
I wish people would let God be God... and accept that fore-knowledge and pre-destination are NOT at war with each other but rather both are valid truths that play out for certain events.

I think of this for an example of pre-destination. Yet God brilliantly allows for us to always have choice.

Hi, and thanks for the encouraging comment! The idea that God only chooses some and not others is not true, and would be unfair. That's why it's "whosoever"; and God knew all the whosevers even before creating, which answers to the Book of Life with names that will not be deleted nor added to, since He already knows all who will want Him.

 

[netchaplain]

i can say the night i got saved i was not seeking him. his Holy spirit was drawing me

All I can say is that some where in your life you eventually desired to be right with God and He made it right. If He saved one who never desired Him, He would have to save everyone, otherwise God would be prejudice, which we know He isn't (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17). Those who never come to God is because they don't want to; and this involves most of mankind (Mat 7:13, 14).

 

[bobinfaith]

Can you pray for others salvation? I believe one can pray in hope that one’s name is in the Book of Life. Actually, salvation is one thing you need not to pray for others, because “everyone that should be saved—will be saved!” Plus, the names of all who will be saved are already in the Book of Life, which was written before creation (Phl 4:3; 1Pe 1:2; Rev 20:15), and the names cannot be deleted (Rev 3:5).

This puts all responsibility on God concerning one being saved. It’s entirely comforting to know all this, especially if your name is in the Book. It means regardless of what you will encounter in your life you will be saved! Some telltales of salvation is seen all through the life of one who will be reborn. If we think about it, God has always meant something to you if you’re saved.

We see the buildup of concern for God the older we get, and things begin to come together more all the time that are related to God. Then He sends to you the one who will have the most effect on you about salvation, and before you know it—you realize you believe in God and Christ, and receive the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Then you find you have more concern for the Word of God and for being with other Christians. You’re reading and studying it as much as you can. Then comes the times of trials and temptations God sends to strengthen your faith by exercising it in trusting Him to “work” everything out for your “good” (Ro 8:28).

It is as you unceasingly grow in the Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15), that you will find your craft of life taking you onward and upward via the trials and temptations that continue to “increase” the strength and vitality of your “faith” (Luk 17:5). As you continue to “endure” the “hardness” of the on-and-off testing of your faith (2Ti 2:3), you see yourself in the most important light; that of being “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

Good morning, netchaplain;

In Precedent Faith, how do we reason when a believer makes ongoing choices regarding their salvation and eventually renounces it? Would you define this as apostasy?

Therefore, shouldn't we continue to pray for all believers and their continued choice of salvation?

God bless you, netchaplain, and thank you for sharing.

 

[In Awe of Him]

In Precedent Faith, how do we reason when a believer makes ongoing choices regarding their salvation and eventually renounces it? Would you define this as apostasy?

I don't know how many times I have heard this point.... yet I can't seem to understand the concept of actually RENOUNCING one's faith...Is that really a thing Bob??? Does God not promise to FINISH within His children that with which HE begins ?? ( which is a GOOD WORK ).

This would suggest that once a person becomes a Christian... they can LOSE their salvation.

This would put things in two categories...... Those who are not yet saved... and then those who WERE saved and forsook their salvation.

I do not understand the latter category.

 

[bobinfaith]

I don't know how many times I have heard this point.... yet I can't seem to understand the concept of actually RENOUNCING one's faith...Is that really a thing Bob??? Does God not promise to FINISH within His children that with which HE begins ?? ( which is a GOOD WORK ).

This would suggest that once a person becomes a Christian... they can LOSE their salvation.

This would put things in two categories...... Those who are not yet saved... and then those who WERE saved and forsook their salvation.

I do not understand the latter category.

Good morning, In Awe of Him;

Again, good question. I’m not at my desk right now but will address your question later this afternoon.

God bless you, In Awe of Him.

 

[forgiven61]

I don't know how many times I have heard this point.... yet I can't seem to understand the concept of actually RENOUNCING one's faith...Is that really a thing Bob??? Does God not promise to FINISH within His children that with which HE begins ?? ( which is a GOOD WORK ).

This would suggest that once a person becomes a Christian... they can LOSE their salvation.

This would put things in two categories...... Those who are not yet saved... and then those who WERE saved and forsook their salvation.

I do not understand the latter category.

just as you chose Christ and made the choice /in apostasy one would have to literally denounce faith in Christ . besides the tos says lose of salvation can not be discussed , due the lack of maturity in the ability of it turning into a freefall argument . trust me there are those one both sides that can and will .

 

[bobinfaith]

I don't know how many times I have heard this point.... yet I can't seem to understand the concept of actually RENOUNCING one's faith...Is that really a thing Bob??? Does God not promise to FINISH within His children that with which HE begins ?? ( which is a GOOD WORK ). This would suggest that once a person becomes a Christian... they can LOSE their salvation. This would put things in two categories...... Those who are not yet saved... and then those who WERE saved and forsook their salvation. I do not understand the latter category.

just as you chose Christ and made the choice /in apostasy one would have to literally denounce faith in Christ . besides the tos says lose of salvation can not be discussed , due the lack of maturity in the ability of it turning into a freefall argument . trust me there are those one both sides that can and will .

I'm discussing with staff first if we can discuss this carefully. I'll get back to this thread.

God bless you all.

BB!!

 

[forgiven61]

the biggest thing i apostasy and yes there are lots of ideas.. mainly was they truly saved

 

[In Awe of Him]

It’s my understanding that individuals must decide for themselves to choose to be right with God. Can you imagine how many more would be saved if God caused everyone who was prayed for to be saved? I believe once one desires God enough to choose Him, He causes them to come to salvation; and He also causes them to “desire and perform of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).

Bob.... I am good with this explanation... of being saved... and OUR part in that process.

The topic of loss of salvation is something I have not thought of in a long time because I walked away from my legalistic family.

All the discussion in the world will NOT help me to understand how it's remotely POSSIBLE to turn AWAY FROM God when you have tasted His goodness. It's not comprehendible to me.

New International Version
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

I hold this scripture very close to my heart because for decades... I was unable to RESPOND to the love of Christ because I did not believe I was WORTHY of it. I am still not worthy of it... however... I have come to understand from scripture how DEEPLY LOVED I am. It's not about me... it's all about HIM and His WORD.

I think some topics are best left for God to deal with. I don't have time to judge who is and is not a TRUE believer.
Somewhere in all that mess is God's GRACE and MERCY. All I know is that we sometimes get things backwards. WE judge the addict and the lowly unloveables as the ONES that are UNSAVED... when in all reality... satan simply has a hold on them... but in the end... GOD will win because of His mercy.

On the other hand... I have very strong opinions on where the DECEIVERS/TEACHERS of FALSE DOCTRINE are headed. WOE to them who pervert the Holy Word of God for their own gain. I tremble when I think of those false teachers... as they have purposely lied about the nature of God.

New International Version
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[netchaplain]

In Precedent Faith, how do we reason when a believer makes ongoing choices regarding their salvation and eventually renounces it? Would you define this as apostasy?

Hi Brother Bob! One can think they are saved, and then supposedly renounce it, but this could just be one who doesn't know what he are doing. First it has to be decided if the person is genuine in deciding for salvation or not. One could genuinely believe he is saved, and if it is true, he cannot renounce nor will ever want to reject it, because of Phl 2:13). When God works in someone, it's permanent, but without knowing this, there is only confusion; and God does this "work" in everyone who is truly saved.

Therefore, shouldn't we continue to pray for all believers and their continued choice of salvation?

Everyone would be saved if we could pray that they be saved, for God wouldn't isn't prejudice (Luk 20:21; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17). It must be one who desires to be right with God first, then He saves them. It's only fair that one must desire to believe in Him before He will save them. The concept that God, for some reason, only saves certain people, is very confusing. Since "salvation hath appeared to all men," it's up to man to desire God; which we already know that most choose to be an unbeliever (Matt 7:13, 14).