Predestination

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm not certain that time is non-existent to God.

Rusty, of course that it a difficult concept for us to understand, especially since "time" is a law of our being. But let us look at the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (Jn.8:58).

Arthur C. Custance wrote that "The subject of the conversation had been the patriarch Abraham. The Lord took Abraham's time as the pivot and spoke of two periods balanced on either side, namely, the ages which preceded Abraham, and all that followed (including the present). He then deliberately picked up the present and put it back before Abraham, but still referred to that distant period in the present tense. Though it was centuries ago, to Christ it was 'now.' Even if He were here today, He would still refer to the time before Abraham as the 'present' time. Why? Because He is God, and to God there is no passage of time, but all is 'present.' The reaction of the Jewish authorities to His statement suggests that in some strange way they had understood what He meant. The mystery of God's name, as revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:13,14--'the One who is existing always in the present'--is unlocked here and undoubtedly determined the Lord's choice of words in speaking to the Jews" (Arthur C. Custance, Time and Eternity, Chapter 4).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I agree that God often emphasizes His timelessness, but also He works within time and encompasses time, as well, because He deals so intimately with beings that are governed by time, humans and angels.

Rusty, I agree with that. Martyn Loyd-Jones explains God's relationship to time in the following manner:

"God is like a man making a watch or clock — He Himself is outside it, He exists without it, He is not a part of it. The watchmaker makes the watch, he winds it up, he sets it going, he is outside the process but he initiates the process, he sets the hands in motion. That may help us a little to understand the relationship of God to time. But, according to this biblical teaching, God set the process going and He keeps it going" (Martyn Loyd-Jones, God and Time).
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[Jerry Shugart]

I see Christ has our Elder Brother and 100% God and 100% human very much involved in time, human awareness of passing of time and the need for time. Granted: time is based on God's creation of the planets and suns....no questions. But days and years vary in length according to a place's revolutions and rotations around it's sun (or suns).

Rusty, since the Lord Jesus was made like us in all things then being very human He would be subject to time.

My point is God the Father is both Maker and Understander of Time, as a painter is intimate with his canvas' finished work, but not subject to the contents of the painting.

Here is what else Martyn Loyd-Jones says:

"In the first place, Peter tells us that God is altogether above time. ‘Beloved, be not ignorant of this, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.’ That is the principle; God is eternal, God is above time. We must never think of God as being involved in the time process or in the flux and movement of time and history — God is altogether above time. It is almost impossible for us to grasp such a thought and such a concept, and yet it is a very vital principle. We, being creatures of time, of necessity think in terms of time. God is altogether above and beyond and outside it, so that when we are thinking of the purposes of God, it is always dangerous to exaggerate this time element. God Himself, being eternal, is right outside it. To Him a thousand years are but as one day and one day as a thousand years. In other words, He does not live at all in the realm, or in terms of, the time process" (Martyn Loyd-Jones, God and Time).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I never said that He is uninvolved in the affairs of the earth.