Putting The Bible Before Christ

[AllieWi]

Sorry to jump in here, but these questions have been on my mind...


Notice that it's speaking of "the Word of God". It does not say "the Bible", which didn't exist then. Do you think the author of the epistle that is the book of Hebrews was saying "My letter is the Word of God"?


Same thing, this time with Paul. What was "scripture" back then? Was Paul thinking that his own letters would become scripture? If so, why didn't he just say "All my letters are the words of God"?

Good point--- I did think of that as I read it but because of Gods sovereignty he would know that his words would be recorded and added to the ot writings of Moses and the prophets , correct?

What would you say is Gods word then? The conviction of the Holy Spirit?

Explain to me the other verse I quoted pleeeeease I'm not arguing I'm trying to learn btw

Edit- oops I see you did already --- yes I believe Pauls words were divinely inspired and that he knew it

 

[RiverJordan]

So does that mean when Paul was writing his letters he wasn't actually writing anything? That God took him over and wrote the words for him?

 

[KingJ]

KJ, I don't see anywhere that I disagree with you, but the translation issue is correct. However, just as River states you made his point,

Go and look at Rivers posts, You will need less then one hand to count the number of posts quoting scripture.

you are, in a way, making mine: Do we get so wrapped up in the bible that we lose site of the cross?

Think about what Jesus said to the Pharisees John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me and then verse 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

All scripture points to Jesus but yes, from the above verse we clearly see it is possible to be so pre-occupied with a bible scholarship that we ''miss the boat''. BUT, once you find Jesus, you will crave sound doctrine! Like a baby yearning for pure breast milk. You will study and hold fast to scripture. You will need to apply effort to remain calm when you see scoffers of scripture. You cannot love Jesus and simultaneously not crave sound doctrine! Dealing honestly and in prayer on every confusing verse. Sitting on the fence / ignoring scripture / selective citing with scripture speaks to me of a wolf in sheeps clothing. Not much depth of respect and love for God.

2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear

 

[KingJ]

Good point--- I did think of that as I read it but because of Gods sovereignty he would know that his words would be recorded and added to the ot writings of Moses and the prophets , correct?

What would you say is Gods word then? The conviction of the Holy Spirit?

Explain to me the other verse I quoted pleeeeease I'm not arguing I'm trying to learn btw

Edit- oops I see you did already --- yes I believe Pauls words were divinely inspired and that he knew it

Both Jesus and the devil used scripture in Matt 4. They NEVER said...when so and so penned X and Y. It is safe to conclude all scripture from the Jews, the gospels and Paul's account are inspired by God. The Catholic church got it right. The few extra books they have are not at loggerheads with other scripture on any scale worth mentioning (purgatory, perhaps the biggest).

God defends and preserves scripture. Not us. We need to understand that and take Rev 22:19 as a serious warning. Any dishonest reading or teaching and we deal directly with God.

With all the modern translations corrupting scripture it is common sense to always double check with the older versions until we get some confidence in a translation.

 

[RiverJordan]

Go and look at Rivers posts, You will need less then one hand to count the number of posts quoting scripture.

Gee, what did I say earlier in this thread? Oh yeah....

"I also find it interesting to see how the same people can't discuss hardly any subject without it becoming a "who can cite the most scripture" contest."

 

[KingJ]

Gee, what did I say earlier in this thread? Oh yeah....

"I also find it interesting to see how the same people can't discuss hardly any subject without it becoming a "who can cite the most scripture" contest."

and you think that speaks well of you on a Christian site? It should be a wake up call River. You are sharing your opinion far too much. You have on countless occasions been asked for scripture to support your view. But you keep...turning to others who believe as you do / overlooking / closing eyes / sneaking out the back hoping nobody notices. The very real risk of heresy is why we quote our views with scripture. 2 Tim 3:16 is crystal clear!...gotta love God's wisdom !

 

[AllieWi]

So does that mean when Paul was writing his letters he wasn't actually writing anything? That God took him over and wrote the words for him?

I believe he was led by the Spirit but of course physically writing himself.

God convicts us of the truth when we are obedient to Him--- Paul was obedient and therefore had good discernment.

 

[RiverJordan]

and you think that speaks well of you on a Christian site? It should be a wake up call River. You are sharing your opinion far too much.

GASP!! How dare I share my opinions!!

Your fundamentalist authoritarian streak is showing again.....

You have on countless occasions been asked for scripture to support your view. But you keep...turning to others who believe as you do / overlooking / closing eyes / sneaking out the back hoping nobody notices.

And I've given scriptural support many times.

But let's be clear. I'm not here to please or impress you or try and meet whatever it is your standards are. If you disagree with me, I'm totally ok with that. You OTOH seem to have quite a problem with it.

 

[RiverJordan]

I believe he was led by the Spirit but of course physically writing himself.

I agree. I think it would borderline deceptive for God to totally take over Paul's mind and hand and use him as a robot to write scripture. It'd be like God saying "You know those letters you thought Paul wrote? Well...heh, heh, heh...that was actually me. Paul had nothing to do with it!"

I'm comfortable with the view that Paul's and others' epistles were inspired by God and the Holy Spirit, but not absolutely dictated by them. That explains some of the cultural, human aspects of their writings.

God convicts us of the truth when we are obedient to Him--- Paul was obedient and therefore had good discernment.

I believe that to try and pretend that absolutely no human or cultural element ever found its way into the epistles is rather silly.

 

[AllieWi]

RiverJ-

"I believe that to try and pretend that absolutely no human or cultural element ever found its way into the epistles is rather silly."

I'm not denying that either I believe it's irrelevant because truth is truth and God is truth.

 

[RiverJordan]

I generally agree, except that some of Paul's culturally-related material has been cited for (IMO) less than noble practices (like the treatment of women for example).

 

[ixoye_8]

I generally agree, except that some of Paul's culturally-related material has been cited for (IMO) less than noble practices (like the treatment of women for example).

actually Paul was pro-women ..
they were not allowed in the Temple ..
so with the the establishment of churches, women were now allowed in ..
and he actually was bridging the old way to the new ..
if women were given equal rights all in an instant, the men would have rebelled and resisted Paul entirely on allowing women in church ..

 

[RiverJordan]

Ixoye,

Sure, and that makes sense if Paul and the OT authors were writing as themselves in the context of the time and place in which they lived. OTOH, if they were all just robots for God, then it doesn't make sense, as God could have just commanded equal treatment of women from the beginning.