Question on the mountain

Ginger said:
That's interesting. A plausible theory, but not definite.
Mark 9: 4 And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, who were talking with Jesus. 5Then Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three dwellings, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6He did not know what to say, for they were terrified. 7Then a cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud there came a voice, “This is my Son, the Beloved; listen to him!” 8Suddenly when they looked around, they saw no one with them any more, but only Jesus.
It looks to me as tho Peter was confused or startled by the whole event and Peter, out of his discomfort, was joining in the conversation, rather than answering a question.
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Then again you could look at Mark 9:2 "Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them."

We note Jesus specifically selected Peter, James and John to accompany Him up on to a high mountain by themselves. Did they climb in total silence? Or on the way did they talk and perhaps Jesus told them what was going to happen? Even forewarned it would still be an overpowering and frightening experience to not only see Moses and Elijah appear but for Jesus Himself to be transformed before their eyes and for the Lord in heaven HIMSELF speak to them personally.

The point I am making is that we must be careful not to try and "mystify" everything in the Bible. To turn everything into an inexplicable "supernatural" experience. The Bible is an account of REALITY, not the "supernatural". Both the reality we know and that vast part of reality we do not know about except that the Lord reveal it to us. In truth there is no such thing as the "supernatural", it is all REALITY, it is just that mankind knows so little about the reality he lives in.

It is like the word "impossible". The Bible does not recognise the word "impossible". It does not say that the Lord can do the impossible. It says that with the Lord all things are POSSIBLE (that is, nothing is - impossible, there are just things WE know how to do and things we do not know how to do). How could the Lord create the earth as we know it in 6 days? The correct answer is because He KNOWS HOW to create the earth in 6 days and we do not. Is it possible to create the world in 6 days? Yes, because the Lord did it.

How did Peter know it was Moses and Elijah? The most LIKELY and SIMPLEST answer is that Jesus TOLD them who they were going to meet (or introduced them). Jesus did not take Peter, James and John up there to confuse them and frighten them. He took them up there to witness with their own eyes, not only His true identity, but the REALITY of everything He was teaching them. I am certain He would have prepared them for what they were about to witness. Do you think He would have done that?

We should always be careful not to overcomplicate that which is not complicated.
 
Well then, if nothing is impossible, then it must be possible they simple recognized these men on sight without ever having seen them before.

I do not care for your response, but will point out an obvious possibility: The three of them were talking and called each other by name. :)

Question: How many Moses and Elijah's are in the Bible?
 
Ginger said:
I do not care for your response, but will point out an obvious possibility: The three of them were talking and called each other by name. :)
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No problems but I note you have got the idea :)
Your suggestion is an equally plausible explanation. The bottom line is there are any number of simple possibilities. The Bible does not say which one it actually was so it is best not to make any assumptions, simply note that there ARE any number of simple explanations.

Sincerest regards
Misty.
 
I think you are the one who rejects certain possibilities. :)

You seem to reject the possiblitity we might be able to recongnize those we never met before without someone specifically stating who they are.

In contrast, I do not form my belief we can recognize each other due to the spiritual bond we share, solely on this one instance with Peter.
 
Mistmann,

May I ask you a question? Do you think Jesus had to physical verbalize the identity of the two men for Peter to know who they were? Or do you think it was possible for him to intentionally make their identities known by some other means?

I agree it is possible Peter heard their names during the conversation, and it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because how he knew was not the point of the passage. But,...I don't insist it is one way or the other. I simply accept their identities were made known.

What is your answer?
 
Ginger said:
I think you are the one who rejects certain possibilities. :)

You seem to reject the possiblitity we might be able to recongnize those we never met before without someone specifically stating who they are.

In contrast, I do not form my belief we can recognize each other due to the spiritual bond we share, solely on this one instance with Peter.
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But that's the point, I haven't rejected ANY possibilities, INCLUDING the simple ones. What I noted here was that everybody was conjuring up all sorts of "spiritual" possibilities but totally ignoring the simple and more likely explanations. It is as if we feel everything MUST have some sort of super spiritual explanation. The Bible is not about dividing the spiritual from reality, it is about the reality of the spiritual.

Sometimes it seems as if we are reluctant to "contaminate" the spiritual with the "mundaneous" of day-to-day reality. BUT it is ALL part of the SAME reality. The reality of the Lord.

To me nothing demonstrates the reality of the spiritual more than the fact that after dying to save us, and defying death to rise again as the one to whom all power and authority in Heaven and Earth has been given, we find our Lord and saviour King on a beach by the small sea of Galilee cooking breakfast for His friends. Now THAT is a King I can love and follow with ALL my heart and soul and mind. A King not afraid to embrace the realities of day-to-day living and meet even the mundane needs of His friends - like a good breakfast. Such is the most spiritual in the midst of the day-to-day reality about us.

Ask yourself why, when somebody asked a simple question like this everybody leapt to the "super spiritual" answers and nobody thought to mention the most obvious possibilities? And then when somebody did they are accused of not being spiritual enough?

Not "coming down" on you, merely making observations and helping others to as well.
 
Ginger said:
Mistmann,

May I ask you a question? Do you think Jesus had to physical verbalize the identity of the two men for Peter to know who they were? Or do you think it was possible for him to intentionally make their identities known by some other means?

I agree it is possible Peter heard their names during the conversation, and it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because how he knew was not the point of the passage. But,...I don't insist it is one way or the other. I simply accept their identities were made known.

What is your answer?
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Happy to answer questions. Jesus had MANY ways to make their identity known, ranging from the "super spiritual" to the most mundane of verbal introductions or advice. Which one it was the Bible does not say so we cannot say. But we must avoid the temptation to appear "more spiritual" before others by focussing only on "super spiritual" answers and shunning the more mundane and more likely explanations and those that give them. That is a temptation that has led many astray.

But why are you agreeing that "it is possible Peter heard their names during the conversation"? That was the suggestion you made, not one of the ones I made.

Sincere regards

Misty.
 
Because that one is in line with the little the Bible reveals about the incident. :) Your explanations go beyond the Scriptures suggesting there might have been unrevealed conversations, which is possible, but the Scripture plainly states Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah, while it does not say anything about other conversation with Peter about them.

I am glad to know you are open to the possibility it could be natural or supernatural. Too many people insist on limiting God within His creation.
 
I was a little concerned with your statement:
mistmann said:
The point I am making is that we must be careful not to try and "mystify" everything in the Bible. ......
It is like the word "impossible". The Bible does not recognise the word "impossible". It does not say that the Lord can do the impossible. It says that with the Lord all things are POSSIBLE (that is, nothing is - impossible, there are just things WE know how to do and things we do not know how to do). How could the Lord create the earth as we know it in 6 days? The correct answer is because He KNOWS HOW to create the earth in 6 days and we do not. Is it possible to create the world in 6 days? Yes, because the Lord did it.
It almost sounds like you are suggesting if we knew how God created the World, we could do it, too!
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Ginger said:
I was a little concerned with your statement:
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I doubt it. Even if we knew how it was done it would still be beyond the ability of mankind to do it.

But the problem that plagues the Christian community these days is unbelief. So many do not really believe what the Bible actually says so they reinterprete it to say something THEY can believe. A prime example is those who believing it impossible for the Earth as we know it to be created in 6 actual days try and reinterprete "days" to mean a thousand years, or an "age" of creation, or a metaphorical device, etc. But the Bible speaks of there being an evening and a morning (a night/day cycle) then the next day so it is clearly declaring a literal 6 days. That is what the LORD has declared to be the truth and we must believe as both true AND possible what HE has declared to BE both true and possible. We must always appreciate the actual REALITY of all the Bible declares to be actual reality.

Hopefully that helps explain where I am coming from.

Regards Misty.
 
Yes. That clears things up. :)
However, some things in the Bible are clearly metaphorical and symbolic.

Jesus often drew parallels to help humans understand the spiritual things. Phrases such as, "Heaven is like..." help us comprehend the unknown through what is known.

Something else that should be considered is the use of colloquialisms. Here is an example of how easy it is to miunderstand the slang terms and colloquialisms of certain eras a or geographical regions: (I Love telling this story!!!)

My mother was in the Waves during WWII. She was in England for a short time and spent a night at a hotel there.

The desk clerk handed her the key to her room and asked if she would like him to "knock her up in the morning".

That could have gotten him a slap in the face, but my mother understood he was asking if she wanted a wake-up call. Today, clerks ring the phone in our rooms to wake us, but back then, (at least in England) they would knock on your room door to wake you.

The same thing can be found in Scriptures. People will often argue something in the Bible is false, when the truth is they just don't understand the intricicies of the language.
 
My mum use to tell of something similar when we first moved from England to Australia many, many years go. She met one of her neighbours in a shop one day, and being caring and concerned innocently said to the lady "I hear your son is a little queer (meaning unwell /sick in England at the time)" :oops:. Her neighbour never spoke to her ever again! It was ages before Mum found out why.

But what you say is important to appreciate the difference between taking everything literally and understanding what has been written. We always need to understand HOW the person is speaking as well as WHAT they are saying. Sadly many take literally what should be understood metaphorically. But equally sadly many take metaphorically what should be taken literally simply because they cannot believe what has been said. For instance things like when Jesus declared that we are in the world but we are not of the world. Or that we are not of THIS world even as He is not of THIS world (meaning quite literally - Earth). Jesus was talking quite literally here although many try and interprete it metaphorically.
 
bill111444 said:
Jesus took Peter, James and John on the mountain where Jesus was transformed; Peter blurted out, Master, this is wonderful, we will build three shrines one for You and Moses and Elijah.... how did Peter know who Moses and Elijah were?
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Well probably the same way he came to know who Jesus was, have a read:

Matthew 15
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” 14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Well probably the same way he came to know who Jesus was, have a read:

Matthew 15
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” 14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Good one!!!!
 
Major said:
Not so my good friend. JUST THINK!

J. Vernon Magee writes in one of his teaching commentaries about this exact thing. He said that he and his wife were going to a city way back in the hills of West Virginia and he stopped to get some gas. He said to the attendandt, "Fill er up please".

As he pideled around the man kept watching him and finanily he asked the great teacher................................
"You are Dr. Magee aren't you"?

Dr. Magee said to him....."yes I am but I have never been here before in my life. How in the world did you know who I was".

The man said......"It is too far to go anywhere up here in these mountains, so me and the wife listen to your radio program every night and WHEN I HEARD YOUR VOICE, I KNEW IT WAS YOU".

Just as James tells us in the Bible............"Our tongue will always give us away".
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I do not agree with anything you said and I believe you are totally off topic to the original statements made.
 
MinisterTony said:
I do not agree with anything you said and I believe you are totally off topic to the original statements made.
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Well that is certainly your opinion but really, I really do not care Minister Tony what you think.

If I din't know better, I would think that you are itching for an argument or confrontation and since we are Christians and this is a Christian site I have to ask myself WHY you would make this so obvious Minister Tony.

And you might want to read and pray over .............

Titus 3:9
"Avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law for they are unprofitable and vain."
 
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